AJ's All American Normal Speed Sliders (WIP)

[adembroski]

Version 1.2b
Updated September 20, 2010

Version updates indicated in red

These aren't exactly "done" in my mind, but I don't think I'll ever be satisfied. I'm looking for input, and lots of it. I don't really want to see just stats, as those can be misleading, but comments on balance.

These are inspired by Playmaker's Varsity sliders. If you aren't satisfied with these, I would recommend them (http://www.operationsports.com/forum...l-sliders.html). I ran into one issue with them, and that was that Varsity CPU teams tend to be terrible in clutch situations. The stats were good, the games felt good, but I was always the one coming out on top in tight games.

Basically, my approach was to ensure that individual match-ups went the right way... a great guard beat an average tackle, for instance. I've got that pretty much down, but now I have to adapt it so that a realistic game is the result.

One problem is that I'm not that good. I've become used to using only one player on the field, and so i still do... meaning if someone else picks up my sliders right now and switches players, they're going to have a much easier game than I have. I've only recently started doing any user catching, and I've noticed it's a huge advantage if you do, so that's throwing off my results. I'm afraid if I released them now you'd end up pretty disappointed, but I'll post 'em here if you wanna try 'em out and give me your thoughts. Just not doing a thread right now... again, no promises that they're any good, it's just my starting point.

Gameplay Options
Skill: All-American
Quarter Length: 9 Minutes (8 minutes if you allow the coach to call your play extensively)
Game Speed: Normal
Player Min Speed Threshold: 25
Home Field Advantage Effects: On
Ice the Kicker: Off

Other options
All "auto" options except Sprint should be OFF, though auto-strafe isn't going to break the game if you prefer it. Auto-sprint, however, should remain ON as the sprint button essentially breaks locomotion.

Game Rules
Holding, Facemask, and Clipping at 55
All others at 100

* There is a delicate balance to be found here. Holding, Facemask, and Clipping occur an inordinate amount on special teams. At your option, you can drop these to 50, making penalties much less a factor, but allowing special teams big plays to stand more often. Any big play on special teams, at 55, is at major risk of being called back.

What I'm currently focused on
Two things, mainly; the pass rush on both sides of the ball, and the CPU running game. These are the things I'm looking at most closely. With the previous version (most of you didn't see), there were too many broken tackles by the CPU, and the pass blocking was a bit weak all around.

Custom AI (USER/CPU)
QBA 15/35
PBK 35/35
WRC 40/40
RBA 40/50
RBK 55/60

PCV 60/60
PRS 30/30
INT 20/15
RDF 75/75
TAK 40/45

FGP 40/40
FGA 25/65
PTP 0/0
PTA 25/40
KOP 20/45


Team Management/Coaching Philosophies
*Note that many of these are not quite updated for the current season, again, work in progress
**These are settings for SIMULATED games, for played games you must adjust the defensive/Aggression slider downward according to the chart provided at the bottom of this list.






Adjusting Aggression
Prior to playing a Dynasty game, go to Team Management and select Coaching Philosophies. Select the team you are playing against, and lower their Defensive Aggressiveness according to the chart below. Be sure to return the slider to its original setting after the game.

85 = 45
80 = 45
75 = 40
70 = 40
65 = 35
60 = 35
55 = 30
50 = 30
45 = 30
40 = 25
35 = 25
30 = 20
25 = 20
20 = 15
15 = 15

NOTES: These were mostly balanced with upper-middle teams... those teams who are just under top 25 quality, and like almost all slider sets, begin to lose fidelity when top teams face weak teams. Bad teams in NCAA 11 are simply too bad, and sliders cannot fix this.

Again, this is in its early stages, so please don't ravage me I haven't worked on sliders seriously in about 5 years.

[GJEM]

Below are the sliders, stats and impressions with your set.

My sliders were set up like you posted in the other thread we were talking in.

Gameplay Options
Skill: All-American
Quarter Length: 9 (8 Minutes - yours)
Game Speed: Normal
Player Min Speed Threshold: 25
Home Field Advantage Effects: On
Ice the Kicker: On (Off - yours)

Custom AI (USER/CPU)
QBA 20/35
PBK 15 -(20) /25
WRC 40/40
RBA 35/55 -(45)
RBK 55/55

PCV 60/60
PRS 35/35
INT 20/15
RDF 75/80
TAK 30/35

FGP 40/40
FGA 20/65
PTP 0/0
PTA 25/40
KOP 20/45
-------------
Game Log:

#2 Ohio State / Minnesota (me)
Score: 37 / 20 (yay finally lost lol)
1st D: 17 / 11
Rushes-Yds: 39-254 / 20-56
YPR: 6.5 / 2.8
Rush TD: 3 / 1
BTKL: 22 (16 by Saine) / 2
Comp-Att: 18-27 66% / 17-29 58%
Pass Yds: 259 / 265
Yds per Comp: 14.3 / 15.5
Pass TD-Int: 1-0 / 2-1
Drops: 3 / 2
Plays: 66 / 49
P-Cakes: 5 / 2
TFL: 4 / 5
Sacks: 0 / 1
DEFL: 9 / 3
3rd %: 6-14 42% / 7-13 53%
Red Zone: 4-1-2 75% / 2-2-0 100%

Impressions:

- First impression...FAST. I've played on Slow since like the first week and boy did it feel intense, like a sensory overload. Hopefully I'll get used to it because the game felt good for the most part and I'm scared that if I set it to slow it would throw the sliders out of whack.

- Saine was a beast and extremely hard to slow down which was a refreshing sight but like you mentioned in your above post the broken tackles were a bit much. 22 in total and 16 by Saine is a bit more than I would like to see but I didn't really mind it since it helped the CPU move the chains. Instead of decreasing running back ability which I believe you have done by 10 pts or 2 clicks maybe we could just put it at 50 and up the tackle slider by a click?

- I'm extremely optimistic that a few minor changes could allow these to be the set I can roll with and finally start my dynasty w/o checking stats and sliders ALL THE TIME. haha It's getting real old. But I loved that I lost since like I was telling you before I was able to hang with just about everybody I played using middle to low rated teams. I finally felt a challenge and was actually able to stray a bit from my play calling house rule on more than a few occasions and I still couldn't come back. I was nervous at first because I was up 14-3 at the beginning of the 2nd quarter and I was feeling like these weren't going to cut it w/o talking to you and tweaking a bit but the big MO crept in and OSU started to roll like a freight train and the rest is history. I "felt" like OSU had that clutch factor we've all been searching for which was nice. Only on a few drives did their play calling baffle me and leave me thinking, "If only they would have called this type of play instead of that type of play they could have really put the final touches on this one."

- Running was hard but not impossible, which it should have been against OSU. Instead of lining up in an I formation and running it up the gut and hoping I would get stopped for little or no gain I was lining up hoping I WOULDN'T get stopped for little or no gain. If that makes any sense. It wasn't a gimme 4-9 yards I guess is what I mean.

- Passing was much like the run. Not a single completion or yard gained felt cheap, they were all earned. A big thing that usually flies under the radar was timing of the passes, timing had to be close to perfect to get a completion. Another nice thing.

- I did notice, on both sides, guys getting through the line a bit quicker than people would like but I kinda think it has to be that way to keep stats in check. However, with that said I do think ratings matter though and blocking assignments.

- All in all a good first game and more games might be needed against various styles of teams but I really liked what I saw and how it played.

* I think I'm going to go with these changes next game (MSU) and see if it helps or hurts the CPU.

CPU RBA- 50
USER TKL- 35

I wish I could also change the speed to slow but I do think it will throw things out of whack.

[doctorhay53]

Playing around with these a little bit and I can tell you straight away human pass blocking this low is just plain not going to work for me.

I'm playing as ND against Army and a 72 overall DT just walked straight through 3 offensive lineman who were 10+ points better than him for a hurried pass on a simple crossing route.

He engaged with the center, broke the block, engaged the LG, broke the block, engaged the RG, broke the block, all in less than 2 seconds. Not gonna happen for me.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by GJEM

Below are the sliders, stats and impressions with your set. My sliders were set up like you posted in the other thread we were talking in. Gameplay Options Skill: All-American Quarter Length: 9 (8 Minutes - yours) Game Speed: Normal Player Min Speed Threshold: 25 Home Field Advantage Effects: On Ice the Kicker: On (Off - yours) Custom AI (USER/CPU) QBA 20/35 PBK 15 -(20) /25 WRC 40/40 RBA 35/55 -(45) RBK 55/55 PCV 60/60 PRS 35/35 INT 20/15 RDF 75/80 TAK 30/35 FGP 40/40 FGA 20/65 PTP 0/0 PTA 25/40 KOP 20/45 ------------- Game Log: #2 Ohio State / Minnesota (me) Score: 37 / 20 (yay finally lost lol) 1st D: 17 / 11 Rushes-Yds: 39-254 / 20-56 YPR: 6.5 / 2.8 Rush TD: 3 / 1 BTKL: 22 (16 by Saine) / 2 Comp-Att: 18-27 66% / 17-29 58% Pass Yds: 259 / 265 Yds per Comp: 14.3 / 15.5 Pass TD-Int: 1-0 / 2-1 Drops: 3 / 2 Plays: 66 / 49 P-Cakes: 5 / 2 TFL: 4 / 5 Sacks: 0 / 1 DEFL: 9 / 3 3rd %: 6-14 42% / 7-13 53% Red Zone: 4-1-2 75% / 2-2-0 100% Impressions: - First impression...FAST. I've played on Slow since like the first week and boy did it feel intense, like a sensory overload. Hopefully I'll get used to it because the game felt good for the most part and I'm scared that if I set it to slow it would throw the sliders out of whack. - Saine was a beast and extremely hard to slow down which was a refreshing sight but like you mentioned in your above post the broken tackles were a bit much. 22 in total and 16 by Saine is a bit more than I would like to see but I didn't really mind it since it helped the CPU move the chains. Instead of decreasing running back ability which I believe you have done by 10 pts or 2 clicks maybe we could just put it at 50 and up the tackle slider by a click? - I'm extremely optimistic that a few minor changes could allow these to be the set I can roll with and finally start my dynasty w/o checking stats and sliders ALL THE TIME. haha It's getting real old. But I loved that I lost since like I was telling you before I was able to hang with just about everybody I played using middle to low rated teams. I finally felt a challenge and was actually able to stray a bit from my play calling house rule on more than a few occasions and I still couldn't come back. I was nervous at first because I was up 14-3 at the beginning of the 2nd quarter and I was feeling like these weren't going to cut it w/o talking to you and tweaking a bit but the big MO crept in and OSU started to roll like a freight train and the rest is history. I "felt" like OSU had that clutch factor we've all been searching for which was nice. Only on a few drives did their play calling baffle me and leave me thinking, "If only they would have called this type of play instead of that type of play they could have really put the final touches on this one." - Running was hard but not impossible, which it should have been against OSU. Instead of lining up in an I formation and running it up the gut and hoping I would get stopped for little or no gain I was lining up hoping I WOULDN'T get stopped for little or no gain. If that makes any sense. It wasn't a gimme 4-9 yards I guess is what I mean. - Passing was much like the run. Not a single completion or yard gained felt cheap, they were all earned. A big thing that usually flies under the radar was timing of the passes, timing had to be close to perfect to get a completion. Another nice thing. - I did notice, on both sides, guys getting through the line a bit quicker than people would like but I kinda think it has to be that way to keep stats in check. However, with that said I do think ratings matter though and blocking assignments. - All in all a good first game and more games might be needed against various styles of teams but I really liked what I saw and how it played. * I think I'm going to go with these changes next game (MSU) and see if it helps or hurts the CPU. CPU RBA- 50 USER TKL- 35 I wish I could also change the speed to slow but I do think it will throw things out of whack.

I was thinking along similar lines. I'm hesitant to lower TAK over raising RBA, but I'm getting close to going ahead with that.

The passing game is extremely timing based, so playing on slow might make it a tad easy to throw. I made it extremely timing based because, well, football is timing based. I might actually lower user WRC in order to toughen it up just a bit.

I've never seen a slider set even attempt to recreate the chaos that a QB has to operate in, and that's partially my goal here. Football is controlled chaos, and most sliders I've used try to make it orderly.

Quote: Originally Posted by doctorhay53

Playing around with these a little bit and I can tell you straight away human pass blocking this low is just plain not going to work for me. I'm playing as ND against Army and a 72 overall DT just walked straight through 3 offensive lineman who were 10+ points better than him for a hurried pass on a simple crossing route. He engaged with the center, broke the block, engaged the LG, broke the block, engaged the RG, broke the block, all in less than 2 seconds. Not gonna happen for me.

Sorry to hear that. I haven't seen anything like that, but I have had comments that the PBK wasn't good enough. It's partially by design, as I stated above, I'm trying to get that sense of orchestrated chaos that QBs have to deal with.

In other words; know your reads, get the ball out on your 5th step, and be decisive. The best tackle on earth is going to get beat in the first 6 seconds 90% of the time. Should what you described happen? No, but video games have limitations... if you want an intense pass rush, sometimes you've gotta live with weird crap.

That said, I'm confident a middle ground can be found and I'm going to keep looking for it. Thanks for the feedback.

[GJEM]

Gameplay Options
Skill: All-American
Quarter Length: 9 (8 Minutes - yours)
Game Speed: Normal
Player Min Speed Threshold: 25
Home Field Advantage Effects: On
Ice the Kicker: On (Off - yours)

Custom AI Changes made
RBA CPU-50
TKL USER-35

-------------

Game Log:

Minnesota (me) / Michigan State
Score: 26 / 28 (Crazy game, lost on FG w/ :00 on the clock after I got the go-ahead TD with 1:01 remaining.
1st D: 16 / 18
Rushes-Yds: 32-58 / 37-140
YPR: 1.8 / 3.7
Rush TD: 0 / 2
BTKL: 0 / 9 (7 fewer with the 5 decrease in RBA and 5 increase in TKL.)
Comp-Att: 17-29 59% / 16-25 64%
Pass Yds: 240 / 235
Yds per Comp: 14.1 / 14.6
Pass TD-Int: 2-1 / 0-0
Drops: 2 / 2
Plays: 61 / 62
TFL: 8 / 10
Sacks: 3 / 3
DEFL: 6 / 5
3rd %: 6-12 50% / 7-13 53%
Red Zone: 2-1-1 100% / 4-2-1 75%

Impressions of Game 2:

- First impression... Again FAST. haha

- Biggest thing I tested, while also trying to win the game, was how these would fair against shotgun runs and draws on the user side and it didn't go so well. I ran 9 total combined run plays out of the shotgun and draw formations and was tackled for a loss on 6 of them, with almost all 6 TFL happening as soon as the HB got the ball. I very rarely run out of those formations using a pro style PB but if someone wasn't running that offense or wanted to run out of the shotgun or run draw plays I don't think they'll have much success at all. I can't imagine running the triple option or pure spread.

- User run might need tweaking because what I just explained above as well as the fact that the only play that picked up more than a yard was I formation straight up the gut. Bennett finished with 71 yards on 22 carries, 3.2 avg, 0 td, 0 btk, and 2 fumbles. I don't mind the avg or yards at all, it's just that only one type of run picked up yards which really limits play calling.

- I liked the CPU run game with the +5 in tackle and -5 in RBA. I was able to decrease BTK by 7. Might need to really go to 40 for TKL.

[Matt10]

Adem, I know I said I'd try these on slow/very slow - but this is playing a great game on normal. I'm seeing overthrows, underthrows (!) from the AI QB.

I am using Northwestern against a ranked 10 Wisconsin, John Clay breaks plenty of tackles (as he should), but it's not outrageous.

The speed is just right. I also saw a beautiful CB-WR matchup, where the WR juked out to the route, and the CB stuck with him, but rating-wise was too slow. So basically it played true to ratings.

I did try PMs sliders for most of the night, the problem I see with Varsity is the AI QB is robo again - on top of that, the warping is ridiculous. I have yet to see any true warping with your slider here. Then again, it is stil the first half.

Well done so far.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by GJEM

- First impression... Again FAST. haha - Biggest thing I tested, while also trying to win the game, was how these would fair against shotgun runs and draws on the user side and it didn't go so well. I ran 9 total combined run plays out of the shotgun and draw formations and was tackled for a loss on 6 of them, with almost all 6 TFL happening as soon as the HB got the ball. I very rarely run out of those formations using a pro style PB but if someone wasn't running that offense or wanted to run out of the shotgun or run draw plays I don't think they'll have much success at all. I can't imagine running the triple option or pure spread. - User run might need tweaking because what I just explained above as well as the fact that the only play that picked up more than a yard was I formation straight up the gut. Bennett finished with 71 yards on 22 carries, 3.2 avg, 0 td, 0 btk, and 2 fumbles. I don't mind the avg or yards at all, it's just that only one type of run picked up yards which really limits play calling. - I liked the CPU run game with the +5 in tackle and -5 in RBA. I was able to decrease BTK by 7. Might need to really go to 40 for TKL.

Unfortunately this is a weakness of the game itself. In order to run out of gun, you have to be extremely timely. If you make running realistic for base sets, it's going to be weak in shotguns sets. Shotgun hand offs are very slow and give the defense a lot of time to react.

My suggestion, generally, is to raise USER RBK 2 clicks if you run a spread offense.

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

Adem, I know I said I'd try these on slow/very slow - but this is playing a great game on normal. I'm seeing overthrows, underthrows (!) from the AI QB. I am using Northwestern against a ranked 10 Wisconsin, John Clay breaks plenty of tackles (as he should), but it's not outrageous. The speed is just right. I also saw a beautiful CB-WR matchup, where the WR juked out to the route, and the CB stuck with him, but rating-wise was too slow. So basically it played true to ratings. I did try PMs sliders for most of the night, the problem I see with Varsity is the AI QB is robo again - on top of that, the warping is ridiculous. I have yet to see any true warping with your slider here. Then again, it is stil the first half. Well done so far.

My two primary goals are to make the trench game the focal point and to make individual matcups come out realistic. I think I'm close in the user run game, need to make sure the HB is balanced for the CPU run game, and I need to do some work on pass protection.

That said, quick advice to people trying these out; the protection audibles are your friend! You need to make sure you have the personnel blocking to pick up the blitz if need be. You need to know your hot reads and get the ball out quickly against the blitz. Your job as a QB is more difficult here than most slider sets, especially presnap. This is intentional. I played QB in HS and I'm trying to recreate that a little bit.

Here's some quick tips to passing with these sliders for those who aren't accustom to pressure.

#1: Identify the defensive front and the overload. You need to know how many blockers you have to each side of the center and how many potential rushers there are.

#2: Know where your backs are going. Backs assigned to pass block in the play call are going to read inside out, backs audibles to pass block read outside in, keep that in mind.

#3: Identify which backers you can't account for, and account for them. If you need to get the ball downfield, you'll need to audible a back to pick them up. If you can take a short gain, look for a receiver in the potentially vacated area. Slants, short in routes, flats, angle-ins, and the like are good for this. If that backer comes, you need to see it and deliver the ball to that receiver. If he doesn't come, then you continue with your original call.

#4: Slide to the overload side, but remember to audible a back to block the back end. When you slide protect, you leave the backside unblocked. This means the EMOLS (end man on the line of scrimmage) is going to be ignored by the linemen. If the defense is shifted entirely to one side, you can slide protect without additional adjustment, but if there is someone wide of the tackle, you need to audible a back to block that direction, or have a hot route fill in the area (if its a backer).

#5: Do not hold the ball! The pocket is not Club Med, don't relax. If you don't know how to read defenses, practice reading passing lanes. Don't agonize whether a receiver will come open or not... if his passing lane is covered, move on to the next receiver. Have at least 3 options in mind on every play. Try to keep all of them on the same side of the formation as this makes for a quicker progression. Know your outlet route and be reading to dump it if you have too.

There are two methods to reading for a QB used in college football; reading the defense and reading passing lanes. The second is not quite as reliable, but is easier to master. You still have to make a presnap read to know which side of the field you're going too, but you don't need to identify coverages.

Reading passing lanes is simply drawing a line from the QB to the point at which the receiver should catch the ball. If the line does not pass through any defenders, throw it. If it does, move on to the next.

The only real reading of the defense you need to do is to identify the worst-positioned safety at the snap of the ball. Usually the defense will give away it's deep coverage before the snap. Watch where the DBs go.

If the safety goes to the middle of the field, you're facing a middle-of-the-field-closed coverage and you want to go opposite that safety if possible. It's not important to know if you're against man, cloud, or sky because you're going to read the lanes after the snap, but presnap you need to know which direction to go.

If the safeties split evenly around the hashmarks and the corners stay near the line of scrimmage, it's a cover 2 and you want to go to either look to the middle of the field or read deepest to shortest on the multi-receiver side of the field (if both sides have multiple receivers, make a choice based on your best combination vs. cover 2).

If the safeties split wide, they're in double man and you want to attack the middle of the field with an inside receiver.

If the safeties split at the hashmarks and the corners back off, it's cover 4 and the best option is a clearly route like Flanker Drive or Mesh (in Mesh, go the receiver coming from the opposite side of the formation as the corner route or audible that receiver to a fly, effectively turning the play into a flanker drive.

Once again, read three lanes and get rid of the ball the moment your man comes open.

And now to totally throw off the whole 'get rid of the ball' thing. Don't rush it, be patient. There is no defense for a perfectly timed pass, but throwing the ball early is a good way to throw picks.

Finally: Learn 4 verticals. This is perhaps the most devastating play in the game, as it attacks the deep areas with 4 receivers but has an outlet. It destroys anything but cover 4 if you have the receivers to run it, especially from Trips. It's designed as a quick hitter for 12-14 yards, but it can easily be run as a deep attack play. It's the deep-pass audible for most formations, but it's good to have the trips version among your regular audibles. A strong armed quarterback will absolutely exploit man and cover 3 with this call if you time it right, and if everyone walks up to the line of scrimmage, find your best outside receiver on the fly downfield.

[adembroski]

I will have an update in a couple of hours. It will cover protection and both running games.