NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Milwaukee Bucks @ New York Knicks

[WTF]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

Again to me this is a faulty arugment. Basket ball is based on offensive movement defensive player reaction... Not simultaneous movement ""The defensive action needs to respond, so needs to be tuned a little more to the "unrealistic" side to get the balance right and the feel to remain natural"" There is nothing natural about the defense leaving the floor after me and beating me to the spot that is a defensive advantage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able score with someone right in your face. The defense has to react. If they are allowed to be a step behind and still meet me at the same place in the air that is an unfair advantage to the defense.

I don't know how I missed this, but my long drawn out post, basically says the same as this by Da Czar. Go figure, Sim head agreeing with Sim head.

It's just not "right". No matter how it's swung. If I'm the defense, if I don't anticipate a block, then I shouldn't get it. If I don't anticipated and gather for the rebound, I shouldn't get it. Regardless.

[tsqueeze]

i think the game is great!!!!!! forget wat everybody else is sayin because theres alot of 2k fans!!! most of the people in here dont have any i Q on basketball and NBA eLITE is the way the game posed be played... not jus runnin around and jus dunkin and throwing oops!!! but the only bad thing was the cam view!! i think u should put it bac to the other and it would look way better...

[Court_vision]

Quote: Originally Posted by WTF

I'm not going to get tied into the argument here, but just wanted to throw out my opinion for what it's worth. I've already commented on the video as a whole, and my viewpoint on the series. Last year, I have to admit, I was more excited about Live than I've been about any bball title since Inside Drive 2004, and that's saying a lot. The new "Sim Direction" had me excited. The new controls for PnR was sweet, and the passing system was second to none. The animations weren't there, but the gameplay was getting better. In fact, the demo probably got more playtime from me than any NBA game has in the past few years. Now, with that said, when I saw the comments from Mike about EA going a different direction, I was not hopping on the EA boat. Finally we had a product that was resembling a game that had some longevity. The graphics weren't perfect, nor were the animations, but the gameplay and play system was getting there. Finding that they possibly weren't going to just upgrade the solid foundation, and going a "new direction", I didn't know what to think, but wanted to keep an open mind. Seeing the "It's all in your hands" type deal, was fine an dandy, no real problem with that. If I'm getting beat, I'm getting beat because of me. Cool. Whatever. Real Time Physics? If done correctly, sweet. Very nice addition, and could possible make those "wow" 1 of a kind situations. After watching the first videos from the devs, the Quick Clips, things started jumping out at me that this was not an NBA title, more of a "basketball" title. I wasn't impressed with the animations, wasn't impressed with the visuals, and none of the visuals "did it" for me. Wasn't writing them off yet, waiting to see more. Then 23's videos come out... WOW. Not a pleasing representation of NBA basketball, or even organized basketball at all. Animations were just awkward, gameplay was frantic, and it had nothing whatsoever that drew me to the title. It was a pitiful "advancement" from the solid base from last year. Going back to the early vids from last year really showed some decent AI and gameplay. The dumb hopping up the court celebration was awful, but other aspects of the game was actually pretty nice looking. Were some of the animations scripted, yeah, but it kept things a little more... ummmmm... accurate. I guess the Real Time Physics was the answer to this. Supposedly. Watching the video that you all just put out, just reeked of "damage control". I talked to several guys on here prior to this, and basically said exactly what we'd see. Two of the devs basically playing the game at a slowed down pace, working the ball around, using the shot-clock, trying to show that the game is not an up and down, rocket dunk, easy fast break, highlight fest. And what did we get? I counted a few times in the video where the user could have easily went to the hoop basically uncontested... and instead, backed it out to "run a play" and try to show the title in a sim aspect. And it was not appealing to me at all. Then I come to read your debate with 23 about the "jumping" and pre-gather. I don't care if it's for the sake of being in control or not. It looks ridiculous, no matter how much anyone tries to defend that executive decision. A quick bend of the knees would not have taken the control out of the users hands, it would actually do the exact opposite. Basketball, and rebounding/blocking in general, is all about anticipation. If you anticipate the bounce, and jump on time (including the gather) you could grab the board. If you jump too early or late, then you miss the board. Deal with it, learn how to time your jump. Removing the "gather" looks awful, and just doesn't represent basketball at any level, other than possibly pee-wee league, where the kids jump stiff legged anyway. Guys rocket jumping, using nothing but their calves I'm assuming, just isn't right, no matter how you swing it, and it looks crazy. I'm not saying that this game won't be fun for some people. I'm glad that there is an alternative, and it won't feel the same as the other game. However, it's not for me. Because someone at EA made the decision to eliminate the "gather" portion of jumping, doesn't mean it was the right one. Doesn't mean it was the wrong one. It's up to the interpreter. In this case, I'm with 23. Looks awful, and I'd rather take the extra 1/2 second to time my gather, to have a game that looks realistic. No matter how much that video was supposed to show a "sim style" gameplay, in my opinion, it failed miserably.

Great post Will...and you have always been one of the fairest posters on here...so your words sum up pretty much my exact thoughts. Really dissapointed with how the whole thing has failed since the LIVE 10 demo had people super hyped that the series was 'back'. LIVE 10 at least had potential. Dissapointing.

[havok023]

reanimator what happened to the graphics is it just the video quality being poor or is it going to look like a psp game on a 360

[Jano]

Quote: Originally Posted by WTF

Because someone at EA made the decision to eliminate the "gather" portion of jumping, doesn't mean it was the right one. Doesn't mean it was the wrong one. It's up to the interpreter. In this case, I'm with 23. Looks awful, and I'd rather take the extra 1/2 second to time my gather, to have a game that looks realistic. No matter how much that video was supposed to show a "sim style" gameplay, in my opinion, it failed miserably.

Great post WTF.

My question is if that anticipation and gather part of the anim takes away from control AND makes the game feel worse on D would you still want it in?

To me it seems like the devs made this decision after testing the game both ways. And realizing that one way of doing it leads to more frustration for the user then the other.

Obviously its ugly looking and completely unrealistic but if it makes for better gameplay I can see why they chose it. Maybe for the way their game works and the time they had in developing the game this was just the better option.

Its not what we want to see visually thats for sure but, iif in the end when you're playing and you can defend shots or drives to the basket stress free (ie you don't feel cheated) can it be something you can tolerate?

That to me is what the devs seem to be trying to accomplish this year, create a game that PLAYS frustration free. Meaning its a game where the hits it takes in looks, it makes up for in control and fairness (or balance) on both ends of the floor for the user.

[havok023]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jano

Great post WTF. My question is if that anticipation and gather part of the anim takes away from control AND makes the game feel worse on D would you still want it in? To me it seems like the devs made this decision after testing the game both ways. And realizing that one way of doing it leads to more frustration for the user then the other. Obviously its ugly looking and completely unrealistic but if it makes for better gameplay I can see why they chose it. Maybe for the way their game works and the time they had in developing the game this was just the better option. Its not what we want to see visually thats for sure but, iif in the end when you're playing and you can defend shots or drives to the basket stress free (ie you don't feel cheated) can it be something you can tolerate? That to me is what the devs seem to be trying to accomplish this year, create a game that PLAYS frustration free. Meaning its a game where the hits it takes in looks, it makes up for in control and fairness (or balance) on both ends of the floor for the user.

they need to improve the graphics it may be too late it look like a psp game
good post i like that they did that hopefully i dont feel cheated during games if i buy this game

[XuanWu]

TERRIBLE, JUST TERRIBLE.

Ouch.

[Forever_Young83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jano

Great post WTF. My question is if that anticipation and gather part of the anim takes away from control AND makes the game feel worse on D would you still want it in? To me it seems like the devs made this decision after testing the game both ways. And realizing that one way of doing it leads to more frustration for the user then the other. Obviously its ugly looking and completely unrealistic but if it makes for better gameplay I can see why they chose it. Maybe for the way their game works and the time they had in developing the game this was just the better option. Its not what we want to see visually thats for sure but, iif in the end when you're playing and you can defend shots or drives to the basket stress free (ie you don't feel cheated) can it be something you can tolerate? That to me is what the devs seem to be trying to accomplish this year, create a game that PLAYS frustration free. Meaning its a game where the hits it takes in looks, it makes up for in control and fairness (or balance) on both ends of the floor for the user.

OMG you are really beating us over the head the the control aspect of the game, like thats the only thing that matters. Most people like myself are attracted to the look (Graphics/Design/Animations) of the game before the control.

Would you buy a Kia for the same price as a BMW becasue the sales person said it drives like a BMW, hell no...If you were smart you would buy the BMW.

I used that example to say this. All the control in the world doesn't mean anything if it doesn't look good. Another funny example is having a ugly girlfriend becasue her sex is good.