NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by PH1LLYSFINEST13

I posted this question earlier and I didnt see it answered... maybe you cant , or maybe you just didnt see it. Whats the difference between this real time physics and the one that 2k is trying to implement in their game? And what are the advantages if its a different engine? Thanks for answering and sorry for the double post if i missed the answer

There is no way I can answer that question as I don't know any more about what they're doing than you do.

Sorry.

[Jano]

Quote: Originally Posted by michaeljordanjr

Maybe I read it wrong, but is the passing now: 1. Player A passes into the direction of player B, if player B moves out of that area the ball will become "free" and it will be open to receiving by anyone that is in the designated area? Kind of like in football games? BTW I liked the ping pong reference, being an avid table tennis player I understood it

This was an interesting question can you give us anything regarding this rEAnimator?

[Nokstar]

One thing i want people to think about is how much pre-determined animations ruin the randomness of play in a way.

U know how in basketball games of recent..you'd see a off ball player start a cutting animation? Well when you see that, you pretty much know whats gonna happen once u see it start because the "look" of it is scripted and you immediatly notice the difference between THAT animation and regular universal animations such as running animations and so on. This applies to alot of things. That is a downside to having all these extra animations just for look instead of gameplay.

I'd actually like off ball cuts and plays being ran under the same basic universal animations that are used during regular running around the court...that way you can't really tell that a "special cut animation" is going to happen...and the opponent cant really tell exactly what you're doing. Does anybody understand what im talking about? Its kind of hard to explain to where all you guys can probably understand me, but im sure one of the developers know what im talking about.

This is the problem with 2k....yes they have alot of beautiful animations...but most of them are just for eye candy and actually take away from the raw gameplay and control. They kind of make things less competitive between human players because most of them happen out of our control and they make everything predictable. I dont want to see a up and under move and know exactly whats going to happen because the animation looks so much more "realistic" than the basic base animations.

With that said...developers should still aim to make sure those basic base animations are of the best quality possible so they can look as realistic as possible without taking away control.

[tybud]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nokstar

One thing i want people to think about is how much pre-determined animations ruin the randomness of play in a way. U know how in basketball games of recent..you'd see a off ball player start a cutting animation? Well when you see that, you pretty much know whats gonna happen once u see it start because the "look" of it is scripted and you immediatly notice the difference between THAT animation and regular universal animations such as running animations and so on. This applies to alot of things. That is a downside to having all these extra animations just for look instead of gameplay. I'd actually like off ball cuts and plays being ran under the same basic universal animations that are used during regular running around the court...that way you can't really tell that a "special cut animation" is going to happen...and the opponent cant really tell exactly what you're doing. Does anybody understand what im talking about? Its kind of hard to explain to where all you guys can probably understand me, but im sure one of the developers know what im talking about. This is the problem with 2k....yes they have alot of beautiful animations...but most of them are just for eye candy and actually take away from the raw gameplay and control. They kind of make things less competitive between human players because most of them happen out of our control and they make everything predictable. I dont want to see a up and under move and know exactly whats going to happen because the animation looks so much more "realistic" than the basic base animations. With that said...developers should still aim to make sure those basic base animations are of the best quality possible so they can look as realistic as possible without taking away control.

i no exactly what your saying good job dog.

[NoTiCe_O]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nokstar

One thing i want people to think about is how much pre-determined animations ruin the randomness of play in a way. U know how in basketball games of recent..you'd see a off ball player start a cutting animation? Well when you see that, you pretty much know whats gonna happen once u see it start because the "look" of it is scripted and you immediatly notice the difference between THAT animation and regular universal animations such as running animations and so on. This applies to alot of things. That is a downside to having all these extra animations just for look instead of gameplay. I'd actually like off ball cuts and plays being ran under the same basic universal animations that are used during regular running around the court...that way you can't really tell that a "special cut animation" is going to happen...and the opponent cant really tell exactly what you're doing. Does anybody understand what im talking about? Its kind of hard to explain to where all you guys can probably understand me, but im sure one of the developers know what im talking about. This is the problem with 2k....yes they have alot of beautiful animations...but most of them are just for eye candy and actually take away from the raw gameplay and control. They kind of make things less competitive between human players because most of them happen out of our control and they make everything predictable. I dont want to see a up and under move and know exactly whats going to happen because the animation looks so much more "realistic" than the basic base animations. With that said...developers should still aim to make sure those basic base animations are of the best quality possible so they can look as realistic as possible without taking away control.

I know what you mean, and that up and under animation is a perfect example, in nba elite you can choose how to work the post not choose certain animations, like there is no automatic get around dropstep animation, or automatic dribble spin.

They give you the moves and you choose how to pull em off, if the D is shoving you in the post you can time their shove and dropstep right around it because thats bball fundamentals. Also with the up and unders in Elite you can choose which hand to finish with after the up and under its not an animation. No one post game will be the same. People are gonna play to their style, its actually real basketball

I just feel like with Elite you'll really be able to see who's good at the game and who's not. Because in this game no one i gonna have an exploit to keep using so each game will be different, playing online each game is gonna bring a different experience depending on skill level. So when your moving up the ranks you'll be able to tell the difference between the good and the bad.

[Jano]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoTiCe_O

I know what you mean, and that up and under animation is a perfect example, in nba elite you can choose how to work the post not choose certain animations, like there is no automatic get around dropstep animation, or automatic dribble spin. They give you the moves and you choose how to pull em off, if the D is shoving you in the post you can time their shove and dropstep right around it because thats bball fundamentals. Also with the up and unders in Elite you can choose which hand to finish with after the up and under its not an animation. No one post game will be the same. People are gonna play to their style, its actually real basketball I just feel like with Elite you'll really be able to see who's good at the game and who's not. Because in this game no one i gonna have an exploit to keep using so each game will be different, playing online each game is gonna bring a different experience depending on skill level. So when your moving up the ranks you'll be able to tell the difference between the good and the bad.

Well thats the plan at least.. We'll see how it plays it when the demo drops its going to take a lot tuning to get it to that level.

I just hope they can get closer to that kind of gameplay this year..

[23]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

I completely respect your opinion here. Everyone has different priorities and views on what is important. Elite won't have fewer signature moves from Live so it's not like we took anything away. We simply chose to put our focus on gameplay fundamentals and control this year.

Im not sure how what im asking doesn't fall under gameplay.

Im hearing a ton of talk about controls which is fine, but what im saying is, are you telling me that there is absolutely no way to have both?

I know people continue to use the word canned animations but thats obviously not what im talking about.

The difference of Kobe in Live 09 and Live 10 shooting a fadeaway for instance... well in Live 09 he turned both ways and had a fade shot depending on the side he turned on

In Live 10 everyone had that wack Raptor claw looking fadeaway which made the shot just purely generic and stale.

Yes I have questions and opinions just as any other, but Im also being fed alot of authentic and real time talk and im wondering where this stuff fits in.

I absolutely cannot understand why a game has to be either all controls or all animations. From what we've seen so far, pics and videos, KD and Bron dribble the same, Jennings's reverse layup looks just like Melo's. A couple of months of seeing that and you can see how it can start to feel stale.

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by 23

Im not sure how what im asking doesn't fall under gameplay. Im hearing a ton of talk about controls which is fine, but what im saying is, are you telling me that there is absolutely no way to have both? I know people continue to use the word canned animations but thats obviously not what im talking about. The difference of Kobe in Live 09 and Live 10 shooting a fadeaway for instance... well in Live 09 he turned both ways and had a fade shot depending on the side he turned on In Live 10 everyone had that wack Raptor claw looking fadeaway which made the shot just purely generic and stale. Yes I have questions and opinions just as any other, but Im also being fed alot of authentic and real time talk and im wondering where this stuff fits in. I absolutely cannot understand why a game has to be either all controls or all animations. From what we've seen so far, pics and videos, KD and Bron dribble the same, Jennings's reverse layup looks just like Melo's. A couple of months of seeing that and you can see how it can start to feel stale.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and you're right, there is no reason that you can't have both. But to this point I would argue that you have never had both in either product.

We simply didn't have the time to make all the gameplay improvements we did and focus on improving the signature aspect of the game significantly.

We had to make a choice, not because it's impossible, but because we had to make a call on priorities.

I'll explain why I said I don't think it affects gameplay.

If I have an animation that jumps X feet in the air, takes Y seconds to complete and releases the ball at a height of Z then that will directly affect gameplay.

The higher he is the harder it will be to block, the longer it takes the easier it will be to block.

In previous years, which animation you picked would affect those parameters.

This year we're procedurally modifying many of those aspects of the animations (not all of them yet, but that's our end goal).

So for the things that truly matter to gameplay, we'll have an infinite variety (again, not along every dimension...yet).

We'll use ratings and physics to drive the parameters of those animations.

However, how much his leg kicks out, or what angle his arm is bent, if if he sticks his tongue out or not has absolutely zero impact on gameplay. It won't change the outcome of the shot, it won't make it harder or easier for the defenders to block the shot.

Now, I completely agree that this stuff matters in the sense that it can break the sense of immersion in the game. We all want the players to look like their real life counterparts for that reason.

But it has no impact on gameplay. They could be running around on their hands and shooting with their feet and the game would play exactly the same as long as the animations had the same properties in the areas where it matters.

Yes the game would look stupid, but it would play the same.

Hopefully that helps explain what I meant.

I'm not trying to downplay something that you clearly feel strongly about. I respect that and it definitely matters.

But we made a call, and we chose to focus on controls and gameplay for this year.

We'll go nuts with the sig stuff next year not that our base gameplay and control systems are solid.