7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

[joel0078]

Quote: Originally Posted by SacKings1999

Whoooooaaa, calm down. I don't know very much about developing video games, but I imagine the reason everyone is tuned to the most explosive, agile player is simply because they don't have all of the player ratings input yet. So all players in these early videos are the same ratings-template-generic player. The game is still an early build, they don't have sig jump shots, ratings, etc... so if ratings aren't in yet, would you rather see videos where everyone moves like Chris Paul after a few red bulls, or a modern day Patrick Ewing (not to be confused with Patrick Chewing). Just relax, reanimator said that ratings / locomotion tunings etc... still need to be input.

I see what you're saying and I don't mean to be over sensitive about it...I'm just not happy with what was shown. It doesn't matter what the ratings are right now. He clearly stated that player speeds are tuned to be to fast, intentionally. I pose the question, WHY? Why not have them moderate, don't show us something that you admit will be different in the end or something you admit no one is happy with. If you have the opportunity to adjust it now and make it believable, do it, for the sake of your fans and sake of your company. Thats what I'm asking for.

I'm done with this one, it's way to early to be getting into this kind of stuff. You guys are right, I know it's a "demo" of sorts. I'm done with it until more info comes out. thanks for replying to my opinion and I look forward to seeing a reply from development in response to my question.

[dexvex]

Quote: Originally Posted by joel0078

I see what you're saying and I don't mean to be over sensitive about it...I'm just not happy with what was shown. It doesn't matter what the ratings are right now. He clearly stated that player speeds are tuned to be to fast, intentionally. I pose the question, WHY? Why not have them moderate, don't show us something that you admit will be different in the end or something you admit no one is happy with. If you have the opportunity to adjust it now and make it believable, do it, for the sake of your fans and sake of your company. Thats what I'm asking for. I'm done with this one, it's way to early to be getting into this kind of stuff. You guys are right, I know it's a "demo" of sorts. I'm done with it until more info comes out. thanks for replying to my opinion and I look forward to seeing a reply from development in response to my question.

You don't seem to understand that they are looking for feedback therefor it is tuned like it is. They are not trying to decieve you so again please quit with the hyperbole

[RayDog253]

Quote: Originally Posted by joel0078

I see what you're saying and I don't mean to be over sensitive about it...I'm just not happy with what was shown. It doesn't matter what the ratings are right now. He clearly stated that player speeds are tuned to be to fast, intentionally. I pose the question, WHY? Why not have them moderate, don't show us something that you admit will be different in the end or something you admit no one is happy with. If you have the opportunity to adjust it now and make it believable, do it, for the sake of your fans and sake of your company. Thats what I'm asking for. I'm done with this one, it's way to early to be getting into this kind of stuff. You guys are right, I know it's a "demo" of sorts. I'm done with it until more info comes out. thanks for replying to my opinion and I look forward to seeing a reply from development in response to my question.

It's a 1 on 1 demo to showcase the new dribble mechanics, so of course the players are going to be "set"(i think tuned was a bad choice of words) at a more quicker and agile state.

[stepsix]

Quote: Originally Posted by Playmakers

Anyway to make sure right now that some PG's like Kidd and Fisher are under control with their shot selection/shooting tendencies? I would love to see J.Kidd be more of a distributor....yes he does look for the open 3 more and i think that should play out in NBA Elite if he's wide open he'll take the shot but if someone is defending him Kidd's not going to shoot He absolutely must have his feet set in order to be a threat.....I wish you guys could actually label some players SPOT UP SHOOTERS because that's exactly what he is now days. I'm looking forward to seeing how all this turns out.....i would like to see this series return to the greatnest of years past.

Good post right here...Playmakers I've read a lot of your posts in the past and you obviously a) know your NBA and b) are passionate about seeing the CPU provide a challenging SIM experience.

On to your point:
- What I call point guard dominance in the AI is typically a result of the following two situations:
1)
* PG is going to usually bring the ball up the court
* With the ball in his hands, if the user isn't well positioned or provides a lane, then he's going to drive to the hoop
2)
* of all the guys on the floor, it's usually going to be the PG or the SG who takes the most 3s
* synergy does provide a catch and shoot tendency, as well as a spot up tendency
* when the ball carrier drives, if someone rotates and leaves someone open outside the arc who's got a fairly high catch & shoot rating (see D Fish), there's a good chance he'll get the pass, and then shoot, resulting in skewed stats.

I like your point about not shooting while guarded, I'm sure I can factor that into his tendency to catch & shoot.

[loadleft]

Quote: Originally Posted by stepsix

Good post right here...Playmakers I've read a lot of your posts in the past and you obviously a) know your NBA and b) are passionate about seeing the CPU provide a challenging SIM experience. On to your point: - What I call point guard dominance in the AI is typically a result of the following two situations: 1) * PG is going to usually bring the ball up the court * With the ball in his hands, if the user isn't well positioned or provides a lane, then he's going to drive to the hoop 2) * of all the guys on the floor, it's usually going to be the PG or the SG who takes the most 3s * synergy does provide a catch and shoot tendency, as well as a spot up tendency * when the ball carrier drives, if someone rotates and leaves someone open outside the arc who's got a fairly high catch & shoot rating (see D Fish), there's a good chance he'll get the pass, and then shoot, resulting in skewed stats. I like your point about not shooting while guarded, I'm sure I can factor that into his tendency to catch & shoot.

This again, is why I don't think you should base all/most the CPU's actions on being reactions to the user's defense. I say that because in another thread you mentioned providing a defensive counter to ever offensive action as way to keep the CPU and chessing in check. I think however, there should be reasons beyond the defense to not do unrealistic things or for the CPU to jack up 30 shots w/Fisher.

I think the CPU needs to have a philosophy programed in for each team that it tries to implement. I think it should be beyond the things that ratings and percentages allow. If the CPU had it as it's philosophy to play through Kobe (for instance) then even if Fisher has an opening wide enough that the ratings/AI calculated he should shoot he'd still have to factor in the teams philosophy.

Maybe there could be programing that allowed other shooters/players to go cold or some other negative effect if the team doesn't play according to it's game plan. That way if Fisher is continually left open and he takes the open shots, just like he should in real life, after 30 Fisher attempts Kobe or Gasol is out of rhythm. I am just saying there needs to be a reason to play realistically beyond just because the user likes it that way.

[ParisB]

Quote: Originally Posted by loadleft

This again, is why I don't think you should base all/most the CPU's actions on being reactions to the user's defense. I say that because in another thread you mentioned providing a defensive counter to ever offensive action as way to keep the CPU and chessing in check. I think however, there should be reasons beyond the defense to not do unrealistic things or for the CPU to jack up 30 shots w/Fisher. I think the CPU needs to have a philosophy programed in for each team that it tries to implement. I think it should be beyond the things that ratings and percentages allow. If the CPU had it as it's philosophy to play through Kobe (for instance) then even if Fisher has an opening wide enough that the ratings/AI calculated he should shoot he'd still have to factor in the teams philosophy. Maybe there could be programing that allowed other shooters/players to go cold or some other negative effect if the team doesn't play according to it's game plan. That way if Fisher is continually left open and he takes the open shots, just like he should in real life, after 30 Fisher attempts Kobe or Gasol is out of rhythm. I am just saying there needs to be a reason to play realistically beyond just because the user likes it that way.

That might open a potential for other problems and unrealistic gameplay with artificial hot/cold streaks. The problem is, if Fisher is open then he SHOULD be shooting, and he does in real life. Obviously it's not going to be 30 times per game, but if the User is constantly leaving him then chalk it up to bad User controlled defense.

I liked Playmakers idea though, that there should be a distinct rating for shooters categorized as spot up only or have the ability to shoot on the drive. Fisher is basically a strict "i'm spotting up and stepping into this shot in perfect rhythm" type of guy. It's VERY rare for him to shoot off balance or leaners etc. (at most he will take a strong side dribble off a pump fake and spot up again) Meanwhile, a guy like Nash can shoot in any position on any foot and so on.

Some guys also don't shoot heavily contested shots either (such as Kidd for example), while a Nash, Dwill, Cp3 can hit all types of shots and look to score.

I guess if they could somehow differentiate those type of guards a bit more..the ones who look to score and can score in multiple ways, and the ones that are more of distributors and shoot mostly when wide open and as spot up shooters. Not just guards, but other guys too.

[mharlem]

Quote: Originally Posted by ParisB

That might open a potential for other problems and unrealistic gameplay with artificial hot/cold streaks. The problem is, if Fisher is open then he SHOULD be shooting, and he does in real life. Obviously it's not going to be 30 times per game, but if the User is constantly leaving him then chalk it up to bad User controlled defense. I liked Playmakers idea though, that there should be a distinct rating for shooters categorized as spot up only or have the ability to shoot on the drive. Fisher is basically a strict "i'm spotting up and stepping into this shot in perfect rhythm" type of guy. It's VERY rare for him to shoot off balance or leaners etc. (at most he will take a strong side dribble off a pump fake and spot up again) Meanwhile, a guy like Nash can shoot in any position on any foot and so on. Some guys also don't shoot heavily contested shots either (such as Kidd for example), while a Nash, Dwill, Cp3 can hit all types of shots and look to score. I guess if they could somehow differentiate those type of guards a bit more..the ones who look to score and can score in multiple ways, and the ones that are more of distributors and shoot mostly when wide open and as spot up shooters. Not just guards, but other guys too.

I agree with this 100%.

[loadleft]

Quote: Originally Posted by ParisB

That might open a potential for other problems and unrealistic gameplay with artificial hot/cold streaks. The problem is, if Fisher is open then he SHOULD be shooting, and he does in real life. Obviously it's not going to be 30 times per game, but if the User is constantly leaving him then chalk it up to bad User controlled defense. I liked Playmakers idea though, that there should be a distinct rating for shooters categorized as spot up only or have the ability to shoot on the drive. Fisher is basically a strict "i'm spotting up and stepping into this shot in perfect rhythm" type of guy. It's VERY rare for him to shoot off balance or leaners etc. (at most he will take a strong side dribble off a pump fake and spot up again) Meanwhile, a guy like Nash can shoot in any position on any foot and so on. Some guys also don't shoot heavily contested shots either (such as Kidd for example), while a Nash, Dwill, Cp3 can hit all types of shots and look to score. I guess if they could somehow differentiate those type of guards a bit more..the ones who look to score and can score in multiple ways, and the ones that are more of distributors and shoot mostly when wide open and as spot up shooters. Not just guards, but other guys too.

My focus wasn't really on the going cold part, but more so if they use a strict set of instructions based on the user's defensive position like they have traditionally done to determine when the CPU shoots then it'll be rare to see the CPU play a style faithful to its real life counterpart, especially for users that play on-ball D. Because the user has no control of the defensive position of the player he doesn't control and then when he switches to the player guarding Fisher things could already be in motion. It doesn't have to be hot and cold streaks but there needs to be a reason why one would play sim (IMO). I always think if Fisher is such a good shooter that he can hit like this whenever he's open why don't the real Lakers just set screens, picks, and or whatever it takes to get him that open so he can shoot at such a high clip? Got to be a reason.