Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

No, they wouldn't have stayed with 2k10. The main gripe was player control, was it not? "I can't control my player in 2k that's why I like Live," is the slogan of choice. Mike brought sizeups, layup control, shooting the ball off the glass, manual box outs, off ball control, off ball animations, etc. About the only unique thing was freestyle passing, which was phenomenal. People were then clamoring for EA to rip off 2k's post game next year since Live didn't have one. And that's just one example. If you've spent enough time in both forums you'd know that as it's pretty obvious. Plays were very similar to '09. I don't know how you can say you've played these games and not see that. They fleshed them out, which is to be expected in a new title the following year. The genre doesn't need the two games being mirrors of each other. NCAA was doing the same exact thing when going head to head with CHoops. And playing Live this year you can see exactly how much more it was becoming just like 2k's product. They need to find their own identity and relate to the NBA in their own way. To think they can't bring anyone new on board and possibly do that (much like 2k did slowly with their series) is silly.

I'm gonna agree and disagree at the same time. There are some fundimental core things that make a game a great "sim" experience. Proper pacing is key, as well as strict adherence to a sports rules and feel. There is no interpretation to be made. So, if both games are striving to be authentic experiences, there will inevitably be some aspects of the game that mirror the other game. Sure you can have different control schemes, but you should never have different styles. If you wanna do that, make a game like the Bigs, Blitz or Street series.

Madden was notorious for always going too far in one direction or the other, with a undo weighting place on one side of the ball or the other. This is why NFL2k ended up getting the nod as being the better game. It was more stable in it's pursuit of purity. It wasn't perfect but it was true to it's core values. Ditto with NBA2k. Now one could argue that EA has been far more successful at it's strategy of appealing to mass-market mentality than 2k has been in it's approach. But. Fifa and the NHL series have gone the way of trying to out-authentic their competitors, and have done so to great success. NBA Live appeared to have taken this course as well, much to my delight. Now, we sit here with talk of "changing directions." Why? Just because the sales weren't there, doesn't mean it wasn't working. The game had a clear direction and had a killer gameplay foundation.Now? Who knows.

I'll be the first to admit that Fifa, my most beloved game, isn't totally "sim." There are a whole lot of skill moves that don't get performed in real play like they can be in Fifa. But there's a pursuit of what makes soccer feel like soccer. I'm finding the same with PES now (although it is even more "sim"). Now if the NBA Live team can keep the level of control (meaning don't change the control scheme) and get that fun feel that I get out of Fifa, cool. But the reason I left Live in the first place was that it was too offensive in nature. It was trying to skirt the line where it was almost a NBA Jam type game. If the disagreement was that the game needs to relax the D and be more "fun" I think they are lost. The game was headed in the right direction, that of an NBA experience. The "authentic" games are leading the way, and the demographic that are buying the games are us. The Dad, not the kid. So build us games, and make Wii and iPhone games for Mommy and the kids.

P.S. I always though it kind of funny that Ian and Co. never got the whole allure of 2k as they were pursuing it last year. They come up with a huge new presentation upgrade, which is what they thought would be the great placebo,when what we really wanted was things like the blocking AI. Seems to be a problem with the EA mindset. They want pretty and flashy, we want great gameplay, covered in pretty and flashy..... "Back of the Box" rules!

[Pared]

Here's the thing... everything that was heralded in Live as a wonderful addition this year was already in 2k's game. The year that a 2k developer has say, Live's game gets what 2k already had, in a different manner.

Ultimately, it's basketball. These things need to be in there. Just like you said. In what way does Mike's departure kill off any hope that EA's game can't find their own identity while providing that?

Again, the developers have spent a year and a half looking at how a developer from 2k thinks and goes about implementing things. You don't think they can use that with their own experience down the line?

Ultimately the suits will dictate what direction the game goes in, but just because they aren't here on the forums or in an article on IGN saying, "Hey guys, we know what you want and we're giving it to you," doesn't mean the game is going to be complete trash. It's just not the 100% hardcore sim a small group of you think this game should be.

A large group of us were able to enjoy NBA Live '05 back in the day. There's absolutely no reason EA can't stylize their product and get back there.

What should I think EA do? Keep adding on that flash that is drawing people over to 2k. Live '10 became stale after a while. Animations, culture and attention to details provide a lot for the gamer. Push authenticity and keep the positives that have their gameplay engine ahead of their competition. They tried to do that this year but failed. Marketing helps too. This was the first year where it seems like 2k marketed a LOT more than EA did in the mainstream media. Live '09 was marketed a lot more than '10. "DNA? That's bananas, B." Giving people youtube videos is nice and all because their bored. They aren't going to sell a game. They just help.

And who knows - EA may just stumble upon that thing that brings people around. The Shot stick is the SINGLE thing that brought 2k into the forefront for a lot of gamers. Live finds something like that and keeps pushing, you never know where they will be in 3 years.

People are just reading the comments how they want to. The same exact way they did when it was said 2k's engine couldn't evolve because it was based on the previous generation's code... Nothing is set in stone.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan

I'll be the first to admit that Fifa, my most beloved game, isn't totally "sim." There are a whole lot of skill moves that don't get performed in real play like they can be in Fifa. But there's a pursuit of what makes soccer feel like soccer. I'm finding the same with PES now (although it is even more "sim"). Now if the NBA Live team can keep the level of control (meaning don't change the control scheme) and get that fun feel that I get out of Fifa, cool. But the reason I left Live in the first place was that it was too offensive in nature. It was trying to skirt the line where it was almost a NBA Jam type game. If the disagreement was that the game needs to relax the D and be more "fun" I think they are lost. The game was headed in the right direction, that of an NBA experience. The "authentic" games are leading the way, and the demographic that are buying the games are us. The Dad, not the kid. So build us games, and make Wii and iPhone games for Mommy and the kids.

You can't keep comparing this to NHL and FIFA. In both instances, their competition (NHL 2k and PES) faltered INCREDIBLY. The games were a shell of their former selves. People stopped looking at them as being the top of their class. NBA 2k and NBA Live had no such path.

As an asie, if you really look at FIFA, they basically copied EVERYTHING from PES, right down to the the controls. NHL found their "thing" through their own shot stick and Be a Pro online.

Every time EA tried to do this with Live, 2k countered with something similar. It's not the same scenario when your competitor is actually evolving.

[phant030]

Was disappointed, now i'm back in wait and see and a more optimistic viewpoint. While we know Wang brought good things, it isnt the endall. There are other talented developers who dont have the notoriety. Maybe EA has one. Brinkman was supposed to save MLB2k and that didnt happen...so Ill just wait and see what EA does and what they can offer me. Kinda expecting more of the same from 2k, which is not good for me. Look forward to Live 11.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Here's the thing... everything that was heralded in Live as a wonderful addition this year was already in 2k's game. The year that a 2k developer has say, Live's game gets what 2k already had, in a different manner. Ultimately, it's basketball. These things need to be in there. Just like you said. In what way does Mike's departure kill off any hope that EA's game can't find their own identity while providing that? Again, the developers have spent a year and a half looking at how a developer from 2k thinks and goes about implementing things. You don't think they can use that with their own experience down the line? Ultimately the suits will dictate what direction the game goes in, but just because they aren't here on the forums or in an article on IGN saying, "Hey guys, we know what you want and we're giving it to you," doesn't mean the game is going to be complete trash. It's just not the 100% hardcore sim a small group of you think this game should be. A large group of us were able to enjoy NBA Live '05 back in the day. There's absolutely no reason EA can't stylize their product and get back there. What should I think EA do? Keep adding on that flash that is drawing people over to 2k. Live '10 became stale after a while. Animations, culture and attention to details provide a lot for the gamer. Push authenticity and keep the positives that have their gameplay engine ahead of their competition. They tried to do that this year but failed. Marketing helps too. This was the first year where it seems like 2k marketed a LOT more than EA did in the mainstream media. Live '09 was marketed a lot more than '10. "DNA? That's bananas, B." Giving people youtube videos is nice and all because their bored. They aren't going to sell a game. They just help. And who knows - EA may just stumble upon that thing that brings people around. The Shot stick is the SINGLE thing that brought 2k into the forefront for a lot of gamers. Live finds something like that and keeps pushing, you never know where they will be in 3 years. People are just reading the comments how they want to. The same exact way they did when it was said 2k's engine couldn't evolve because it was based on the previous generation's code... Nothing is set in stone.

Agreed. And I'm not saying they don't have a better plan than Mike might have had. But I have great trepidation about them possibly messing with the only thing, IMO, that Live had right. I totally agree that they need depth, polishing and some flash. More animations and modes. Further tweaking of the AI and the Slam-Dunk contest. But don't mess with the gameplay. It was better than 2k's. If some long time fans of the series or some member of the development team who really didn't like the direction the game took last year is saying" take it back to how it was" and using the poors sales as an excuse to do so, they are smoking crack. The identity that the series ended up having was "arcady."(love that word. ) It needed fixed in the worst way. For all the modes it was missing this gen, it was the gameplay that was the single worst aspect of the game.

As my own aside, I do applaud the VC crew for not really changing the vision of NBA2k. For years they were second fiddle to the NBA Live behemoth and stayed the course.(Just like NHL and Fifa...) To see them go double platinum is really great considering all of the woes they have been through as of late. Yes Pared, commitment to "sim" and purity will work over the long haul. Great marketing or not... (see 2k's crap marketing dept....) But I truely hope that their lead will have a real heart to heart with his counterparts down the hall in Burnaby (Rutter and Littman) and figure out how they reached the promise land. Don't listen to the suits, per se. Listen to the guys with the big sales and MetaCritic scores. Then the suits will be happy! And so will John Q. Gamer.....

[GHUGHES]

Im about to in Ed Lover style on this but C'mon SON Yeah live made huge strides in terms of game play presentation authentic intros BUT Cmon SON Running around shooting the 3 ball with Mo Williams Mike Bibby and Eddie House. Despite having great reviews you take out 1 of the best features ever Online Team play Clubs for Adidas live run AND SELL LESS GAMES THAN THE YEAR BEFORE Cmon SON C[mon son get outta here with that BS.

Wish Mike the best but Live 09 owned 10 and numbers dont lie Cmon Son bring back ranked 5 on 5 team play and watch your numbers go back up . As for the hardcore offline sim style cat Cmon son who plays the computer now and days games are and rightfully so should be geared toward online play.

Weather it be Online Dynasty Franchise Team play whatever if your not gearing your game to the online crowd your not going to do numbers. Which at the end of the day is what it's all about.

Just my 2 pennies take it how you want CMon Son Bring back club matches

Wish Mike the best hope everything works out for him and his family

[ataman5]

Quote: Originally Posted by GHUGHES

Im about to in Ed Lover style on this but C'mon SON Yeah live made huge strides in terms of game play presentation authentic intros BUT Cmon SON Running around shooting the 3 ball with Mo Williams Mike Bibby and Eddie House. Despite having great reviews you take out 1 of the best features ever Online Team play Clubs for Adidas live run AND SELL LESS GAMES THAN THE YEAR BEFORE Cmon SON C[mon son get outta here with that BS. Wish Mike the best but Live 09 owned 10 and numbers dont lie Cmon Son bring back ranked 5 on 5 team play and watch your numbers go back up . As for the hardcore offline sim style cat Cmon son who plays the computer now and days games are and rightfully so should be geared toward online play. Weather it be Online Dynasty Franchise Team play whatever if your not gearing your game to the online crowd your not going to do numbers. Which at the end of the day is what it's all about. Just my 2 pennies take it how you want CMon Son Bring back club matches Wish Mike the best hope everything works out for him and his family

Just one question, where is the online part of the competition and how many sales they got?? If you can answer that then we can do some of your cmon son moves together aye.

Sadly, i've seen lots of comments like this on ea boards and these people in a very strange way are so relieved that Wang's gone, and they must be the favorite ''casual'' gamers that ea wants to sell their games.

You know what i'm the casual gamer; all i want is a basketball game that replicates real life basketball; and you know what basketball in itself is already FUN, so you don't need go into trouble to make it arcadish, just make it real and see everyone will enjoy it.

Sorry if i went offensive GHUGHES; but i'm against the ''general idea'' just like you commented that i've seen through on ea boards and some other places.

[bigeastbumrush]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

welp...looks like i wont be playing any basketball games next year either

Same here.

I'm done.