Just a weird feeling from these last two 2k games

[iimrampage28]

I know this post will be all over the place and I apologize in advance......I'm not sure if this thread has been made before or not....but do you guys feel like signature skills are making the game worse? Even back in 2k13 I felt like certain skills (finisher for the most part) were OP in the sense that if players DID NOT have the skill than they would have a hard time completing basic basketball actions(I.e. Close lay ups). Big men and anyone who drove the basket seemed to be crippled when trying to score around the basket without finisher. I hate to bring up Live but if anybody remembers, Live was good up until 06 when they introduced the Freestyle Player skills(playmaker, stopper, highflier etc..) and the game started to become Cartoony. And in live 07 you could change skills on the fly and it just got ridiculous from that point. Is 2k going in this direction? Cause I would hate to see this happen to two good franchises.


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[Taer]

The signature skills are not the cause of the problem. Overuse of the signature skills only aggravate the problem but they are not the cause of the problem.

The rosters and their make-up are.

I really hope that the STATS hype is warranted and that future updates really improve upon what to me is 2k's biggest weakness.

A finisher skill by itself does not turn 2k into a cartoonish experience. Giving 30+ people the signature skill on top of over-inflated attributes do.

[iimrampage28]

Quote: Originally Posted by Taer

The signature skills are not the cause of the problem. Overuse of the signature skills only aggravate the problem but they are not the cause of the problem. The rosters and their make-up are. I really hope that the STATS hype is warranted and that future updates really improve upon what to me is 2k's biggest weakness. A finisher skill by itself does not turn 2k into a cartoonish experience. Giving 30+ people the signature skill on top of over-inflated attributes do.

Fair enough I had a feeling I worded that wrong, I didn't just mean finisher I meant signature skills in general. I just feel that the games were great enough without signature skills, back when signature styles were the bread and butter. And it's reminding me of Live's mistakes.


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[Taer]

They needed to add signature skills in order to keep everyone from being the same. Rosters are so inflated that you can't really showcase what makes each player an individual .

As an example: Dr. J was just added this year and he was rated at an overall of 93. Is Kobe really as great now at age 35 as Dr. J was at his prime? Is Lebron James a better player? If so, how do you show-case Dr. J's real-life skills.

You need to give Dr. J the various signature skills just so he is able to perform at the level of play he should.

Signature skills in my opinion are legit - it is just the way they are spread out like candy in a candy store that needs to be addressed. The ultimate failure is to me things like giving Royce White 5 sig skills. Just what was 2k thinking when they did this?

[mango_prom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Taer

They needed to add signature skills in order to keep everyone from being the same. Rosters are so inflated that you can't really showcase what makes each player an individual . As an example: Dr. J was just added this year and he was rated at an overall of 93. Is Kobe really as great now at age 35 as Dr. J was at his prime? Is Lebron James a better player? If so, how do you show-case Dr. J's real-life skills. You need to give Dr. J the various signature skills just so he is able to perform at the level of play he should. Signature skills in my opinion are legit - it is just the way they are spread out like candy in a candy store that needs to be addressed. The ultimate failure is to me things like giving Royce White 5 sig skills. Just what was 2k thinking when they did this?

The funny thing is that before adding these cartoonish "sig skills", 2k had a much more refined and detailed system for differentiating players from each other. Remember 2k12, where there was the "abilities" screen, allowing us to finetune individual dribble moves, post shots and so on independently from each other? That whole concept was removed from 2k13, making players more similar by default. Then sig skills were added, which are mostly modifiers to already existing rating scales. Not the smartest idea if you ask me. Why would you dumb down rosters on purpose?

And now, freelance tendencies are gone completely, removing even more unique features from players. I have no idea what's the point.

I tried 2k14 with ball handling globally at 0, and it doesn't make any difference in how players move. Saw the same AND1 crap from the CPU, and I could still drive to the hoop at will. Waiting for a patch before buying 2k14, right now it's not fun to me. Maybe the next gen version will be better, but in the few gameplay clips available till now, the CPU is setting the same idiotic picks into thin air and ball movement is non existent. So if they're really going with current gen mechanics as a foundation ( which I'm not sure of, haven't seen enough footage yeat), I don't see much improvement on that end. But I'm only speculating here, maybe next gen 2k14 will be awesome.

[kmiree16]

I think Signature Skills are a problem in that they shouldn't boost ratings. Things like Floor General, Defensive Anchor, Closer, etc shouldn't exist, or at least shouldn't work how they do. I know it's a video game, but those particular Signature Skills don't make sense...in a basketball sense. What logic is there behind a guy suddenly getting a boost in his defensive ratings because Joakim Noah is on the floor? IRL Carlos Boozer is still a bad defender regardless of Noah's presence. Same with Bargnani on the Knicks in spite of Chandler.

This was one of the things 2K12 did right imo. I loved the whole "Abilities" thing. It actually helped differentiate between players. They should have just expanded on it by adding more categories for Abilities. To me, it just seems silly that Derrick Rose has to have "Ankle Breaker" next to his name so he can cross over Steve Nash like he's supposed to. Ratings and Abilities should already take care of that.

As far as Signature Skills that do more "intangible" things, like Bruiser, Brick Wall, Deadeye, I think those are good. Because currently, we don't have Abilities or Ratings that correspond to the things those Signature Skills do.

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[kmiree16]

Quote: Originally Posted by mango_prom

I tried 2k14 with ball handling globally at 0, and it doesn't make any difference in how players move. Saw the same AND1 crap from the CPU, and I could still drive to the hoop at will. Waiting for a patch before buying 2k14, right now it's not fun to me. Maybe the next gen version will be better, but in the few gameplay clips available till now, the CPU is setting the same idiotic picks into thin air and ball movement is non existent. So if they're really going with current gen mechanics as a foundation ( which I'm not sure of, haven't seen enough footage yeat), I don't see much improvement on that end. But I'm only speculating here, maybe next gen 2k14 will be awesome.

TBH, this is what kind of scares me about next gen. I mean, it looks amazing and is supposedly built from the ground up using a new engine. But does that also mean they're coding their AI differently? I'm not so sure. AI has always been a sore spot in 2K games especially with the introduction of MyPlayer, where you have to rely on computer teammates which more times than not results in frustration. It also causes 2K to give the CPU arbitrary ratings boosts on higher difficulties to compensate for their lack of intelligence, which I wholly disagree with.

I know it's probably a little pretentious to want video game AI to play basketball like real basketball instead of like a video game, but I really hope we can reach that point. I just want to be able to play MyPlayer and not have to be a superstar just for us to win games. If 2K can dramatically improve the AI they'll really take that next step imo.