2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

[Vni]

2K games have never been known for their good spacing but it got a little worse this year with 2K13. Once again I'am pretty sure that people have complained that there was not enough off ball movement when they where free lancing and running around so 2K added all theses random cuts and off ball movement.

But outside of plays that's exactly the opposite of what real life players do. You don't see players jogging randomly in the middle of the court bringing their defenser into the ball handler's way or cutting randomly to the basket when they where wide open for a 3. What they do and what is correct is stretching the floor and trying to maintain a correct spacing.

Outside of plays and outside of some perimeter movements it's mainly a 2 men's game or a 4 men's game if there is some p'n'r going on. off ball movement should only come from plays or manual cuts using the the left bumper and the shotstick.

It's another thing that makes the gameplay frustrating... It's another thing where the player lost controll. To me it's another big issue of 2K13.

Really stop trying to please the lazy gamer 2K. If player wants movements tell them to run plays, explain to them that they can do manual off ball cuts. All this off ball movement non sense is extremely annoying especially because there is no IQ or logic behind it.

[Serra11]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vni

2K games have never been known for their good spacing but it got a little worse this year with 2K13. Once again I'am pretty sure that people have complained that there was not enough off ball movement when they where free lancing and running around so 2K added all theses random cuts and off ball movement. But outside of plays that's exactly the opposite of what real life players do. You don't see players jogging randomly in the middle of the court bringing their defenser into the ball handler's way or cutting randomly to the basket when they where wide open for a 3. What they do and what is correct is stretching the floor and trying to maintain a correct spacing. Outside of plays and outside of some perimeter movements it's mainly a 2 men's game or a 4 men's game if there is some p'n'r going on. off ball movement should only come from plays or manual cuts using the the left bumper and the shotstick. It's another thing that makes the gameplay frustrating... It's another thing where the player lost controll. To me it's another big issue of 2K13. Really stop trying to please the lazy gamer 2K. If player wants movements tell them to run plays, explain to them that they can do manual off ball cuts. All this off ball movement non sense is extremely annoying especially because there is no IQ or logic behind it.

I would be able to give you at least 100 "I like this post".

Proper hotspots and spotup freelance help a lot,but the main problem is when some player drives and than his teammates start to walk around the court without a sense!

[keshunleon]

Even if the spacing is good the players don't make realistic movements:

Passing is bad and another reason why spacing is lacking or less effective.

Players change of direction animations are bad and there are so many unnecessary movements of players.

The movements aren't fluent at all and it don't help the CPU will stop players motions when cutting or cut players that are standing still.

Players on the same team running into each other causing the opponents to score easily.

[mango_prom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vni

2K games have never been known for their good spacing but it got a little worse this year with 2K13. Once again I'am pretty sure that people have complained that there was not enough off ball movement when they where free lancing and running around so 2K added all theses random cuts and off ball movement. But outside of plays that's exactly the opposite of what real life players do. You don't see players jogging randomly in the middle of the court bringing their defenser into the ball handler's way or cutting randomly to the basket when they where wide open for a 3. What they do and what is correct is stretching the floor and trying to maintain a correct spacing. Outside of plays and outside of some perimeter movements it's mainly a 2 men's game or a 4 men's game if there is some p'n'r going on. off ball movement should only come from plays or manual cuts using the the left bumper and the shotstick. It's another thing that makes the gameplay frustrating... It's another thing where the player lost controll. To me it's another big issue of 2K13. Really stop trying to please the lazy gamer 2K. If player wants movements tell them to run plays, explain to them that they can do manual off ball cuts. All this off ball movement non sense is extremely annoying especially because there is no IQ or logic behind it.

Great post!

Another aspect that influences spacing in a huge way is how plays are initiated currently and what happens if they break down (with default playbooks it's painful to watch).

2k really should overhaul the whole play conept. Right now, we have to step into that tiny circle which is incredibly unresponsive due to sluggish controls in general and bumping animations often preventing to even enter the circle. And even if you manage to step into the play circle, it takes a few seconds until anything happens, This means often 10-15 seconds of the shotclock are wasted without any kind of spacing going on since the AI is still in freelance mode before you've been able to finally trigger a play.

I think a better solution would be to use bigger areas to trigger plays, why not simply tie play initiations to the hotspots behind the 3pt line? Simply three different areas to start plays a bit earlier and with more opportunities to counter defenders disrupting the play initiation in the first place.
Right now it's just plain silly.

Also important are plays themselves. 2k absolutely needs to start testing their set plays at least once before putting them in the game. We all know how poorly designed many sets in 2k13 really are. And spacing is a bit part of that. Take High Post plays for instance. There are about a handful plays that kinda work, the others are broken because spacing is absolutely horrible leading to the recieving post player passing right back to the PG and here we are in pointless freelancing once again...

[sirjam]

I would love to know which are completely broken or have 2k take the broken plays out of the game via a update.

[FloorGeneral]

Quote: Originally Posted by mango_prom

Great post! Another aspect that influences spacing in a huge way is how plays are initiated currently and what happens if they break down (with default playbooks it's painful to watch). 2k really should overhaul the whole play conept. Right now, we have to step into that tiny circle which is incredibly unresponsive due to sluggish controls in general and bumping animations often preventing to even enter the circle. And even if you manage to step into the play circle, it takes a few seconds until anything happens, This means often 10-15 seconds of the shotclock are wasted without any kind of spacing going on since the AI is still in freelance mode before you've been able to finally trigger a play. I think a better solution would be to use bigger areas to trigger plays, why not simply tie play initiations to the hotspots behind the 3pt line? Simply three different areas to start plays a bit earlier and with more opportunities to counter defenders disrupting the play initiation in the first place. Right now it's just plain silly. Also important are plays themselves. 2k absolutely needs to start testing their set plays at least once before putting them in the game. We all know how poorly designed many sets in 2k13 really are. And spacing is a bit part of that. Take High Post plays for instance. There are about a handful plays that kinda work, the others are broken because spacing is absolutely horrible leading to the recieving post player passing right back to the PG and here we are in pointless freelancing once again...

Great, great points friend. 2K really needs to put more effort into the play-side of the game. It's like the bastard stepchild that gets no love. You have to really know your plays and where you need to be ahead of time just to get the damn thing ran before the shot clock expires. I guess that's kind of realistic, as you see the same thing in NBA games, but it's still frustrating. The needing to get in that circle is a great point also. Called PNR plays don't feel organic at all, as you have to get in the circle, then wait for the screener to come up. Meanwhile, often times the other side of the floor is still in disarray as the players are trying to get in their proper spots.

Also, like the title says, the spacing is horrendous, and while it's been said numerous times, either the players are too big, or the court is too small. It seems like if you have a guy at the top, on the wing, and in the corner, it's pretty easy for 2 guys to be able to cover that with no issues, and that shouldn't be the case. Of course that could have something to do with the molasses-like passing, and the terrible catch animations, but that's a whole different topic.

Whatever the case, something needs to be done, and I have a feeling it won't be for 2K14, regardless if it's on Next-Gen's or not. It'll be like Madden/NCAA in '06, where the Next-Gen iteration of the game will in all likelihood be inferior to the last/current gen counterpart.

[FloorGeneral]

Quote: Originally Posted by sirjam

I would love to know which are completely broken or have 2k take the broken plays out of the game via a update.

If you go --> http://www.operationsports.com/vannwolfhawk/blog/ <-- there, vann did a great job of weeding out the broken plays, and assembled plays that teams run, or are similar to what they run.

He should really be on the 2K payroll.

[jersez]

Spacing has been an issue for years, but if spacing was properly implemented into the game, things like the close out speed, passing accuracy and the slow catch animations. It wouldn't make a difference imo. Spacing is a pain in the rear, but I think these other issues need to be fixed then worry about the spacing, which can really be covered up by calling plays.

Calling plays, really take the "thinking" away from your cpu controlled teammates, it gives them an assignment for a little while, which is more productive imo than just standing and doing random cuts. I think the cpu is designed for plays to be called, and not really run a reading and react type of offense, the main reason why we never had a true triangle offense in the game. We haven't made it there(sports games) where the cpu can properly read and react and we don't have to rely on set plays.

Things like the close out speed and the terrible catching animations(halfcourt) are the little things that really hold this game back and are completely fixable.
In real life the ball will always be faster than any player, that's why great ball movement can beat great defensive rotations, but not in 2k where the defensive recoveries are so fast, that it covers all the defensive holes. It's unrealistic and disgusting that with ten plus years, they still have to rely on this tactic to help the cpu out.

The Catch animations take way to long, for a shooter to shot basically. The game takes away control so I can't shoot as soon as my player catches it. I know this was long, and spacing does need fixing but 2k has to get rid of these cheap tactics to help cover up their flaws.