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RaychelSnr · 09-07-2012, 01:37 PM

The advanced statistical revolution has arrived in the basketball, just a few years behind its arrival in baseball. As documented in Michael Lewis’ Moneyball, the use of sabermetric stats in baseball led to a dramatic turnaround for the woebegone Oakland A’s in 2002. Those same principles also played a big part in getting the Boston Red Sox their first World Series title in 86 years in 2004.

In basketball, statisticians like John Hollinger have developed metrics like Player Efficiency Rating (PER) in an effort to go beyond the often deceptive per-game numbers that have been in use for generations. The NBA 2K series has responded to this evolution by providing advanced metrics in its last several iterations, including stats like True Shooting Percentage, Effective Field Goal Percentage, the aforementioned PER, and others.

But there’s so much more they could do.

Read More - NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed

nova91 · 09-07-2012, 01:40 PM

Shot charts and the player/team comparisons are what I would really like to see added.

iLLosophy · 09-07-2012, 01:42 PM

Great suggestions.

Not to mention with more advanced stats, it will make problems and imbalances the sim engine, sliders, tendencies, gameplay stats that much more apparent.

youALREADYknow · 09-07-2012, 01:44 PM

They had some advanced stats in 2K12, but one would think that there's a lot more coming since they have the STATS license.

Part of the problem could be data storage though. Storing play-by-play data for one entire NBA season takes at least a couple GB of storage space (on the conservative end) and that's probably the major design drawback. On the lighter versions of the 360, that's not going to be feasible.

Rolled-up team data should be possible without much storage requirement though.

Gramps91 · 09-07-2012, 01:46 PM

Personally I really like the way they're been doing stats since 2k10. 2k12 was amazing in that they showed averages against every team, as well as home and away games. I think it's fine the way it is, but if they want to add more, then I welcome it. I'm a stat nut. As long as they don't take anything away from what they already have.

ffaacc03 · 09-07-2012, 01:50 PM

I would like, as stated, for 2k to use such advanced stats, not only display them ... use the shot charts for hot spots, use the advance metrics for ratings, use synergy info for tendencies and playbooks ... I want 2K to fully embrace and integrate this ...

Then again, I understand that not everything is numbers and that there is subjectivity and context ... thus just make the distinction of what is objective (individual ratings, tendencies), apply the metrics, then separate the subjective (overall rating, players goals, etc) and please, make it all editable.

youALREADYknow · 09-07-2012, 01:59 PM

One thing mentioned in the GameInformer article is that a developer worked on capturing in-game player tendencies within MyPlayer Mode and integrating that into gameplay for how teammates act/react.

This actually was already somewhat included in 2K12 in Quick Play games where you could create a "Profile" of how you played based on shot type, shot location, tempo, defensive style, etc. I wondered if they would ever extend that into other game modes and it looks like they have.

Hopefully that kind of dynamic and real-time data analysis will allow players and coaches to have dynamic attributes, tendencies, hot spots, and hot zones in career modes in future NBA 2K games.

For example, the Clutch rating could be a dynamic rating from year-to-year that "progresses" up/down based upon Clutch statistics from the previous season. The Durability rating could progress up/down based upon injury frequency from the previous season. All Hot Zones could be determined based on actual shot location data from the previous season.

There's a ton of potential there if that's the route they choose to go. I've always had the opinion that career modes in sports games will not take the jump to the next level until more aspects are dynamically generated and evolving.

scatman · 09-07-2012, 02:10 PM

I've thought about this extensively. I would love to see these kinds of stats and more added to the mix. I really like the idea of having shot charts available outside of a game. Being able to see where my guys are being most effective would be invaluable to this game, as well as coaching and scouting other talent be it for upcoming games, trades or free agents.

Per 36 or Per 40 is another tool I would love to see. I usually have to go online and look up the stats of guys myself and I use it when I want to create someone (upcoming rookie or legend not in the game) to get an idea of how good and productive I should make them.

09-07-2012, 01:37 PM	#1
RaychelSnr Executive Editor OVR: 57 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 4,846 Blog Entries: 490	NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed The advanced statistical revolution has arrived in the basketball, just a few years behind its arrival in baseball. As documented in Michael Lewis’ Moneyball, the use of sabermetric stats in baseball led to a dramatic turnaround for the woebegone Oakland A’s in 2002. Those same principles also played a big part in getting the Boston Red Sox their first World Series title in 86 years in 2004. In basketball, statisticians like John Hollinger have developed metrics like Player Efficiency Rating (PER) in an effort to go beyond the often deceptive per-game numbers that have been in use for generations. The NBA 2K series has responded to this evolution by providing advanced metrics in its last several iterations, including stats like True Shooting Percentage, Effective Field Goal Percentage, the aforementioned PER, and others. But there’s so much more they could do. Read More - NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed Platform: PC / PS3 / Xbox 360 volstopfan14 and shmitty like this.

09-07-2012, 01:40 PM	#2
nova91 MVP OVR: 14 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC	Re: NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed Shot charts and the player/team comparisons are what I would really like to see added. __________________ Say "No" to railroaded MC modes.

09-07-2012, 01:42 PM	#3
iLLosophy Plata o Plomo OVR: 26 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,673	Re: NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed Great suggestions. Not to mention with more advanced stats, it will make problems and imbalances the sim engine, sliders, tendencies, gameplay stats that much more apparent. nova91 likes this.

09-07-2012, 01:44 PM	#4
youALREADYknow MVP OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DC Posts: 3,638	Re: NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed They had some advanced stats in 2K12, but one would think that there's a lot more coming since they have the STATS license. Part of the problem could be data storage though. Storing play-by-play data for one entire NBA season takes at least a couple GB of storage space (on the conservative end) and that's probably the major design drawback. On the lighter versions of the 360, that's not going to be feasible. Rolled-up team data should be possible without much storage requirement though. ffaacc03 likes this.

09-07-2012, 01:50 PM	#6
ffaacc03 MVP OVR: 33 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Dominican Republic	I would like, as stated, for 2k to use such advanced stats, not only display them ... use the shot charts for hot spots, use the advance metrics for ratings, use synergy info for tendencies and playbooks ... I want 2K to fully embrace and integrate this ... Then again, I understand that not everything is numbers and that there is subjectivity and context ... thus just make the distinction of what is objective (individual ratings, tendencies), apply the metrics, then separate the subjective (overall rating, players goals, etc) and please, make it all editable. Last edited by ffaacc03; 09-07-2012 at 01:56 PM.

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09-07-2012, 01:46 PM	#5
Gramps91 MVP OVR: 22 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bulan, Ky Posts: 2,105 Blog Entries: 1	Personally I really like the way they're been doing stats since 2k10. 2k12 was amazing in that they showed averages against every team, as well as home and away games. I think it's fine the way it is, but if they want to add more, then I welcome it. I'm a stat nut. As long as they don't take anything away from what they already have.

09-07-2012, 01:59 PM	#7
youALREADYknow MVP OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DC Posts: 3,638	Re: NBA 2K13: More Advanced Stats Are Needed One thing mentioned in the GameInformer article is that a developer worked on capturing in-game player tendencies within MyPlayer Mode and integrating that into gameplay for how teammates act/react. This actually was already somewhat included in 2K12 in Quick Play games where you could create a "Profile" of how you played based on shot type, shot location, tempo, defensive style, etc. I wondered if they would ever extend that into other game modes and it looks like they have. Hopefully that kind of dynamic and real-time data analysis will allow players and coaches to have dynamic attributes, tendencies, hot spots, and hot zones in career modes in future NBA 2K games. For example, the Clutch rating could be a dynamic rating from year-to-year that "progresses" up/down based upon Clutch statistics from the previous season. The Durability rating could progress up/down based upon injury frequency from the previous season. All Hot Zones could be determined based on actual shot location data from the previous season. There's a ton of potential there if that's the route they choose to go. I've always had the opinion that career modes in sports games will not take the jump to the next level until more aspects are dynamically generated and evolving. nova91 and ffaacc03 like this.

09-07-2012, 02:10 PM	#8
scatman Rookie OVR: 18 Join Date: Aug 2010 Blog Entries: 8	I've thought about this extensively. I would love to see these kinds of stats and more added to the mix. I really like the idea of having shot charts available outside of a game. Being able to see where my guys are being most effective would be invaluable to this game, as well as coaching and scouting other talent be it for upcoming games, trades or free agents. Per 36 or Per 40 is another tool I would love to see. I usually have to go online and look up the stats of guys myself and I use it when I want to create someone (upcoming rookie or legend not in the game) to get an idea of how good and productive I should make them.