"Attempting" To Make A 100% Sim NBA Game: Good Or Bad For Sales

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Man I just want a basketball game that plays good and feels like basketball. Offensively and defensively . Right now this gameplay feels so sloppy.

[ILLSmak]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

I agree. Youd have to create an algorithm on how to make certain things randomly happen but also make things happen because of actions made by the user. An example would be a dominant rebounder like Tristian Thompson having a bad rebounding game, which he very rarely does. But it doeS happen. Dude had like 3 rebounds in a finals game this year. So how do you program that? The only way would be for 2k to pick AT RANDOM which guys were going to suck at certain skills in any certain game. But if they do that it would come off as cheating to us. I mean i feel they do this with shooting if you put the game on HOF and puts 3 sliders on 38. Iv gone 2-11 with Kevin Love on all wide open shots. and did I think that was sim? NO. I thought it was 2k cheating because i got Love wide open and i felt he should hit So its hard to mamage it

I dunno, I've probably said this before, but there was a game (was it 2k?) that would roll players attributes before each game. I don't remember how it was decided, but I think some of it was random. Have fatigue, have rhythm, have match ups, clutch, consistency, etc all play a part. It's not cheating.

It would require attributes being hidden in the game (actual attributes) cuz it would be wack to be able to see them before the tip... but shuffling line ups if you have to, playing different because a player is cold, it all seems 'sim' to me.

In 2k, it's not like "wow guys I'm cold this game." It's just like keep jacking cuz they are gonna fall eventually.

As for the offense always getting bad shots on HoF, that has to do with bad outcomes. Like how you'd pass it around and sometimes the ball would go out of bounds or the guy catching it would bobble it. Nothing would really cause it in most cases, it just happened. Same thing needs to go into D.

Something better than guys just running off their man for no reason haha. All of those things like awareness can matter. Like imagine D awareness and O Awareness measured how long it took a player to figure out what was going on. Like if someone was back cutting, how long it would take them to figure it out, how much they would be 'ready' to stop that after it happened once, or how fast they could go from helping to running out on a shooter. NBA players make a lot of mistakes (or misreads) vs a high level offensive team, but 2k basically has the same outcomes (if you pass the ball to x spot, the help will always come and you get an open 3. That's how you score vs cpu) or they have those weird run off your man plays that I guess are supposed to simulate 'real life.'

Anyway, it's probably easier to have the game be this way, and it's probably more profitable, so it's not gonna happen unless they want it to. I tend to believe that someone can please shareholders AND break ground at the same time, but who knows... maybe not.

-Smak

[SonicMage]

Quote: Originally Posted by ILLSmak

I dunno, I've probably said this before, but there was a game (was it 2k?) that would roll players attributes before each game. I don't remember how it was decided, but I think some of it was random. Have fatigue, have rhythm, have match ups, clutch, consistency, etc all play a part. It's not cheating. It would require attributes being hidden in the game (actual attributes) cuz it would be wack to be able to see them before the tip... but shuffling line ups if you have to, playing different because a player is cold, it all seems 'sim' to me. In 2k, it's not like "wow guys I'm cold this game." It's just like keep jacking cuz they are gonna fall eventually.

This just goes to back to what I was saying before about trying to please too many different types of players at once.

What people (and in some cases the designers of this game) need to understand is that there are three groups of 2k players: casual, "sim", and hardcore.

Casual is the guy who wants to get in and play a fun game of basketball. Maybe they'll play the game for a month, or on and off for a few months. They'll check out all the cool new features and sample all the game modes, maybe even play a season of a career. It can have rules that resemble the actual sport, but shouldn't be overly complicated or require strategy beyond the basics. This is MOST players.

Hardcore are the competitive multiplayer guys, especially online. What's most important to them is that the game has the most intricate facsimile of NBA basketball, while still remaining fair. These are the guys who will be the quickest to talk about "cheese", or exploits, within the game. They also happen to be the most vocal about problems within the game, and the ones that this game's designers are most likely to make adjustments based on feedback, *even at the expense of the other two groups*. What I mean is that casual groups suffer because what hardcore types want isn't necessarily "fun". Being hardcore at a game requires a lot of practice and grind to get skilled. It isn't all fun, it's work.

Then there's "sim" players. These are the ones that truly want the most realistic experience imaginable. Like EA used to say, "If it's in the game, it's in the game." One common pattern you'll notice from looking through feedback on these forums is that these guys are *often* confused with hardcore players, or hardcore players *think* they're "sim" but they're really not. These guys are into modes like MyGM/MyLeague.

Leading into what you're talking about, one of the big topics that distinguishes hardcore from "sim" players is the acceptance of random events, like players starting a game cold, or injuries, or flagrant fouls. These are definitely a part of the real NBA, but they have no place being in competitive multiplayer how it's currently constructed because they give an unfair advantage at random to one of the two teams. What makes chess so popular as a game is that the rules are simple and clearly defined, they never deviate, and the balanced board is *always* the same at the start of every match. Everybody starts on an even playing field. This is how ranked online multiplayer should be.

Just to give you another example, I consider myself a "sim" player; I want the closest experience to the NBA as possible, including all the unfairness that goes along with it. When this game launched, injuries during gameplay was a pretty frequent occurrence, which was such a welcome surprise to players like me. But now, several patches and tweaks later, injuries are hardly ever seen, even with the durability slider turned all the way down. That kind of tweak should have been made to online multiplayer where it makes sense, but quick play should have stayed the way it originally was

[Housh123]

Quote: Originally Posted by SonicMage

This just goes to back to what I was saying before about trying to please too many different types of players at once. What people (and in some cases the designers of this game) need to understand is that there are three groups of 2k players: casual, "sim", and hardcore. Casual is the guy who wants to get in and play a fun game of basketball. Maybe they'll play the game for a month, or on and off for a few months. They'll check out all the cool new features and sample all the game modes, maybe even play a season of a career. It can have rules that resemble the actual sport, but shouldn't be overly complicated or require strategy beyond the basics. This is MOST players. Hardcore are the competitive multiplayer guys, especially online. What's most important to them is that the game has the most intricate facsimile of NBA basketball, while still remaining fair. These are the guys who will be the quickest to talk about "cheese", or exploits, within the game. They also happen to be the most vocal about problems within the game, and the ones that this game's designers are most likely to make adjustments based on feedback, *even at the expense of the other two groups*. What I mean is that casual groups suffer because what hardcore types want isn't necessarily "fun". Being hardcore at a game requires a lot of practice and grind to get skilled. It isn't all fun, it's work. Then there's "sim" players. These are the ones that truly want the most realistic experience imaginable. Like EA used to say, "If it's in the game, it's in the game." One common pattern you'll notice from looking through feedback on these forums is that these guys are *often* confused with hardcore players, or hardcore players *think* they're "sim" but they're really not. These guys are into modes like MyGM/MyLeague. Leading into what you're talking about, one of the big topics that distinguishes hardcore from "sim" players is the acceptance of random events, like players starting a game cold, or injuries, or flagrant fouls. These are definitely a part of the real NBA, but they have no place being in competitive multiplayer how it's currently constructed because they give an unfair advantage at random to one of the two teams. What makes chess so popular as a game is that the rules are simple and clearly defined, they never deviate, and the balanced board is *always* the same at the start of every match. Everybody starts on an even playing field. This is how ranked online multiplayer should be. Just to give you another example, I consider myself a "sim" player; I want the closest experience to the NBA as possible, including all the unfairness that goes along with it. When this game launched, injuries during gameplay was a pretty frequent occurrence, which was such a welcome surprise to players like me. But now, several patches and tweaks later, injuries are hardly ever seen, even with the durability slider turned all the way down. That kind of tweak should have been made to online multiplayer where it makes sense, but quick play should have stayed the way it originally was

Im definitely a hardcore competitive guy online. I don't want the park and Pro Am to be "sim" but I want it to be realistic and have a steep learning curve.


Now in offline MyGM I am sim. I want that to dang near mimic real life basketball as much as possible.

[DatGD12guage]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoodMuzik

So glad SonicMage posted here. Wish SimWorld would as well. Everyone thinks something is or isn't sim. Steph Curry going 0-11 from 3pt line against the lowly tanking 76ers IS sim. Because it happened. The Kevin Durant-led Golden State Warriors lost by 20 to the atrocious Lakers. That IS sim. Because it happened. On a game? That's not sim to people, because they want to win. And Steph is supposed to be money from 3, and especially against one of the worst teams in the league. If you get an open look, you feel like you earned the right for it to go in more often than not. I disagree with this notion because it's a make or miss league, but that's how the consumer playing the game feels.

Sim to me in a game would be who ever makes the smarter reads and adjustments Throughout the game.

If a defender is giving you space to shoot then shoot. If the guy is a lockdown defender call for a pick and try to get a switch.

In currys case even if you make the right read on defense he still makes tough shots but at the same time a half contest is like no contest on a great shooter so 2k has to balance that. your contest on curry has to be intense for the chances of his shot to miss.

As for as the 0-11 game in order to recreate that in a VIDEO GAME there has to be a hot and cold system like they have now but I think it has to be more refined. You make two shots then you start dancing and get fancy to get space to take the curry contested shots. I think 2k goes more off of currys 3 pt shooting percentage tho.

[ForeverVersatile]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

Im definitely a hardcore competitive guy online. I don't want the park and Pro Am to be "sim" but I want it to be realistic and have a steep learning curve. Now in offline MyGM I am sim. I want that to dang near mimic real life basketball as much as possible.

Sim means to portray something as it is in real life, so if you want realistic game play you want sim. Problem is everyone has different views of what is sim in a basketball game. The game won't ever be at a point where it's non cheesy or realistic enough.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Housh123]

My big takeaway is I want playing basketball the right way to be rewarded more than you just playing it to do your own thing.






If you play well with a team and you move the ball and play good D you should hit superstar faster than some bum who wastes 90% of every shot clock and only passes when need be even If he scores more PPG than you.

[MarkWilliam]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rockie_Fresh88

Man I just want a basketball game that plays good and feels like basketball. Offensively and defensively . Right now this gameplay feels so sloppy.

This times 1000.

Sloppy is the best word I could come up with if trying to describe 2K17 IMO in a few of its gameplay elements.

I just feel like the game lacks polish. I feel like the game comes out, isn't ready yet so you get this game with flaws out the box. Then patches just come out regularly to "tune" the issues..... wash, rinse, repeat.

But back to the original point, I too feel like sim basketball has taken a back seat in terms of priority. I feel like online is now the priority and I wouldn't link online to sim as a first instinct.

When I think of 2K at its strongest, I think 2K11. And I know online play was not its focal point during development. And furthermore, when I think of the other stronger 2Ks (IMO of course), those editions weren't developed with online as a focus.

Since gen 4 (2K14 onwards) I've been less than overwhelmed with the games and never seem to continue playing once I find the "gamebreaking" issue.

And please no one say "why buy it?". I buy it so I can play it - with hope it's the next 2K11.

But sim to me means best possible emulation of real life. And NBA basketball should be tough and strategic. I needs to be exceedingly challenging to keep my interest (offline guy FYI).

Once I found the game breaker that allowed me to score 54 with Brandon Ingram in the first half, or foul out a CPU big man in the 2nd quarter, I knew I needed to go outside and play.....