Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

[pmmartin86]

As somebody who is spending about 18/24 hours each day, dick deep in data while testing three different hypotheses, I found this post to be refreshing.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by eko718

Speed with Ball is an excellent rating addition. This is so necessary for big men who are fast from end to end and defensively, but not necessarily with the ball in hand. The problem is not the rating addition, but rather the ratings allotted to players. I agree, 97 SWB rating makes no sense when your overall speed is 83. Solution; decrease Steph's SWB rating...problem solved. The issue is not with the rating category addition. Also, this category need not replace quickness because quickness already has two categories; lateral quickness and acceleration. I have no issue with addition of ratings and expansion of options. We should by no means encourage 2K to SUBTRACT from the options we have; just do it correctly.

I'm stunned that it's not this way. I have no idea what they were thinking, it's fundamentally illogical.

[pmmartin86]

Last year I saw an analytic which tracked the distance each player ran during the season and their average speed. Now, this could be an oversight on 2K's behalf and they really did think that a player could run faster while performing a task than they could while just sprinting, but maybe their thinking was, "without the ball, player A only moves this fast (possibly in an effort to conserve energy or they simply have a lack of desire), despite the fact that they have a much higher speed potential, however, they use that full potential with the ball because they are motivated to use their full speed."

[Tstone77]

Quote: Originally Posted by eko718

Blake Griffin's speed sprinting without the ball in hand will absolutely differ from when he is dribbling the ball. So X guy who is 'slower' than Blake Griffin could very possibly be faster when Blake is dribbling up court. In any case, when you say X guy is 'slower' than Blake in what context are you speaking of? With the ball, without the ball? Dwight Howard had a sprint time faster than most guards in his draft combine testing. When he was younger, his speed was a big reason he was such a problem on defense. If you go by combine speeds Dwight Howard was faster than Chris Bosh running end to end, even though Bosh was considered to be relatively fast for a big. However if Dwight was dribbling down the court, Chris Bosh would obviously be faster than Dwight. Thus the logic for that rating separation. Just because Dwight was slow with the ball, doesn't mean that defensively he shouldn't be able to run down a guy on a fast break or should have been easily blown by even by slower guards on the perimeter. It makes plenty sense that a big would have a slower speed with the ball than without... very clear why that would be the case. The interesting question for me is why many guards have faster speeds WITH the ball than without. Defensive speed and general speed or average speed when moving around the court(which is a statistical category by the way) may have something to do with how they derived those ratings.

It was weird for you to bring up the Dwight being the fastest in his draft class then bring up Chris Bosh who was not part of that same class being able to catch him. I agree with you on the bigs dribbling slower with ball than with out the ball. The disagreement comes when you say that a big with an 87 speed rating should have a 60 or 70 SWB rating. That is a pretty drastic drop in my opinion. We as fans forget that these are all basketball players they can do everything at a above average level.
Dwight Howard can handle the ball just not as good as a guard could. Blake Griffin can dribble the ball, just not as good as a guard could. They should not take some Drastic hit in SWB ball rating cause I guarantee in the open court they have no problem getting baseline-to-baseline.
We are kind of seeing the evolution of this in the current NBA. With our "centers" being able to shoot, drive, pass, dribble. It truly is the era of "positionless basketball" The couch for Kentucky(name is slipping me) talked about how he stopped his players from doing certain things cause it didn't fit the scheme.

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[Hustle Westbrook]

Isn't that how the Shot Off Dribble Rating is? Where it's not a modifier so a Shot Creator My Player can have a 70 standing 3 ball but a 90 off the dribble one?

Let me find out that the Contested Shot Ratings are not modifiers either SMH!

[Tstone77]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hustle Westbrook

Isn't that how the Shot Off Dribble Rating is? Where it's not a modifier so a Shot Creator My Player can have a 70 standing 3 ball but a 90 off the dribble one? Let me find out that the Contested Shot Ratings are not modifiers either SMH!

This all very saddening news

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[Mikelopedia]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeremym480

Yeah, I noticed that Isaiah Thomas has 87 speed and 94 speed with the ball. So, I guess he can only run that fast when he has the ball in his hands It seems a little weird, but maybe there a reason behind it?

I believe the reason is this:

Last year, myself and many others here, had a warranted gripe with Steph Curry being as fast or faster than most of the elite PG's in the NBA when in reality, he isn't that physically gifted.

The Speed with Ball rating allowed 2k to try to more properly rate players speed, but then inflate the SWB rating so that players like Steph could still blow by people and be difficult to cover.

[Tstone77]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mikelopedia

I believe the reason is this: Last year, myself and many others here, had a warranted gripe with Steph Curry being as fast or faster than most of the elite PG's in the NBA when in reality, he isn't that physically gifted. The Speed with Ball rating allowed 2k to try to more properly rate players speed, but then inflate the SWB rating so that players like Steph could still blow by people and be difficult to cover.

Sounds accurate.

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