NBA 2K16 Player Ratings & Screenshots - Day Four: Kobe, Wall, Ross & More

[lakers24]

kOLDbe rulez!

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by BluFu

Great article (seriously, that should be shown to devs for injury enhancements in 2K17) but Wilkins came back and averaged 30 .

Kobe came back. Did he average 30?

Quote:

You don't know how well Kobe will do next season.. so the ratings are based off what he's done. You know this... I know this... what's the debate about again?

Evidently, about what he's done. He was *** last year in a large enough sample, and suggesting he will return to his 2013 rates is foolish at best.

Quote:

Alright let me walk you through this.. seems like you're having a hard time... 492 players played last season.. Kobe recorded the same amount (or less) than 241 of them.. 241 x 2 is... oh...

If you are going to hang your hat on the veritable difference between 49 and 50% without delving into WHY, then you should probably just keep your pennies to yourself.

Quote:

Of course there's no perfect number besides 82. "This is where common sense kicks in." Consistent 60 game seasons are enough to evaluate a player. Playing more than half of the season is a good start..

60 games played is literally the NBA median, so it can and should be done with less. Kobe isn't nearly as far away as you'd like to think.
The point you keep dancing around and have yet to refute:

Kobe: 35 games, 1207 minutes
Jeff Ayres: 51 games, 383 minutes

ONE OF THESE MATTERS MORE THAN THE OTHER

RATINGS DON'T COME FROM PER GAME STATS

Quote:

Well said. Only reason I went back another year is because that's all we've got unfortunately. 6 games just isn't enough.

Kinda begs the question of why you are going back at all, given that a player's most recent season is by far his most relevant. Kobe didn't sit the year out.
1,200 minutes is more than enough, and I say this with a decade of experience. Even 600 minutes would have been enough.

Random Team Time!
Kobe Bryant: 35 games, 1207 minutes (-5.4 PER from 2013)

Victor Oladipo: 72 games, 2573 minutes (+2.3 PER)
Nikola Vucevic: 74 games, 2529 minutes (+2.7 PER)
Elfrid Payton: 82 games, 2489 minutes (Rookie)
Tobias Harris: 68 games, 2369 minutes (+0.2 PER)
Channing Frye: 75 games, 1870 minutes (-3.7 PER)
Evan Fournier: 58 games, 1661 minutes (+2.1 PER)
Willie Green: 52 games, 951 minutes (+0.8 PER)
DeWayne Dedmon: 59 games, 845 minutes (+2.6 PER)
Kyle O'Quinn: 51 games, 824 minutes (-1.7 PER)
Aaron Gordon: 47 games, 797 minutes (Rookie)
Ben Gordon: 56 games, 790 minutes (-2.1 PER from 2013)
Luke Ridnour: 47 games, 683 minutes (+1.0 PER)
Maurice Harkless: 45 games, 674 minutes (-3.4 PER)
Andrew Nicholson: 40 games, 492 minutes (+0.4 PER)
Devyn Marble: 16 games, 208 minutes (Rookie)

Man, that's a lot of guys without a full body of work.
Ah, let's ignore all that! Said no GM ever.

[Real2KInsider]

Hey by the way speaking of that Paul George declining production thing you brought up

Kobe Bryant
Nov: 27 PPG on 39 FG% (37 mpg)
Dec: 20 PPG on 35 FG% (34 mpg)
Jan: 14 PPG on 36 FG% (31 mpg)

Poetry in motion

Good luck with the whole Kobe not sucking on one leg thing at 37 years old thing.
Optimism and blind faith sure stopped two-legged Michael Jordan from sucking at age 38.

[vtcrb]

Quote: Originally Posted by 23

All you have to do is not be bias. Its not time for revisionist history

I Cant stand Kobe, so if i was going by Bias he would be a 55 Overall. LOL

In all seriousness though, Until i see IF any New Attributes have been Added OR if any Attributes are Weighted differently, it is tough to debate the Overall Ratings.

As we have Talked before Overall Rating is not something I worry about, Gameplay is my Main Goal. And sometimes Overall can look a little OFF to get the Game Engine to play right. This year I was able to find a combination of Gameplay & Sim Stats in 2k15, Hopefully they havent messed with the System.

[BluFu]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

60 games played is literally the NBA median, so it can and should be done with less. Kobe isn't nearly as far away as you'd like to think. The point you keep dancing around and have yet to refute: Kobe: 35 games, 1207 minutes Jeff Ayres: 51 games, 383 minutes Kinda begs the question of why you are going back at all, given that a player's most recent season is by far his most relevant. Kobe didn't sit the year out. 1,200 minutes is more than enough, and I say this with a decade of experience. Even 600 minutes would have been enough. ... Victor Oladipo: 72 games, 2573 minutes (+2.3 PER) Nikola Vucevic: 74 games, 2529 minutes (+2.7 PER) Elfrid Payton: 82 games, 2489 minutes (Rookie) Tobias Harris: 68 games, 2369 minutes (+0.2 PER) Channing Frye: 75 games, 1870 minutes (-3.7 PER) Evan Fournier: 58 games, 1661 minutes (+2.1 PER) Willie Green: 52 games, 951 minutes (+0.8 PER) DeWayne Dedmon: 59 games, 845 minutes (+2.6 PER) Kyle O'Quinn: 51 games, 824 minutes (-1.7 PER) Aaron Gordon: 47 games, 797 minutes (Rookie) Ben Gordon: 56 games, 790 minutes (-2.1 PER from 2013) Luke Ridnour: 47 games, 683 minutes (+1.0 PER) Maurice Harkless: 45 games, 674 minutes (-3.4 PER) Andrew Nicholson: 40 games, 492 minutes (+0.4 PER) Devyn Marble: 16 games, 208 minutes (Rookie) Man, that's a lot of guys without a full body of work. Ah, let's ignore all that! Said no GM ever.

Again, why are you comparing the minutes of bench guys to a player who has logged over 42,000 minutes as a starter. (Jeff Ayres? Really?) Common sense tells us that a bench player's body of work is different than a longtime starter who is among the leaders in minutes played. You're saying 10 games from Rose and 6 from George aren't enough but 35 games is?... do you think that's really a fair evaluation to grade one starter based on 35 games and another with 70? You can't just use 35 games, so you go back to the previous season... common sense right? But he only played 6 games... So you need to use 12-13.

It's done.... Beds has already rated him, just wait for the season to start, make some threads to petition for his reduction and maybe (just maybe) if Kobe plays bad enough, he'll end up at a 75.

Quote: Originally Posted by BluFu

Start of season Rondo: 87 (!!) He only played 30 games the year before. 15.3 PER DWill: 84 (!!) 64 games year before, averaged 14 and 6 Rose: 88 (!!) 10 games year before, avg 16 and 4 Tony: 88 (!) 68 games before, avg 17 and 6 Howard: 88 ... avg 18 and 12 in 71 games Now Rondo: 79 ... 68 games played (we know how those went) DWill: 78 ... 68 games played (rating could drop even more at the start of 2K16) Rose: 85 ... 51 games played, avg 18 and 5 Tony: 84 ... 68 games played, avg 14 and 4 Howard: 88 ... 41 games played These guys all received the "benefit of the doubt" until a certain extent. If Kobe can consistently play games and does consistently bad, you'll definitely see his rating drop.

Quote: Originally Posted by 23

All you have to do is not be bias. Its not time for revisionist history

When a guy plays badly for a long enough time, his rating will be reduced.

[23]

Quote: Originally Posted by vtcrb

I Cant stand Kobe, so if i was going by Bias he would be a 55 Overall. LOL In all seriousness though, Until i see IF any New Attributes have been Added OR if any Attributes are Weighted differently, it is tough to debate the Overall Ratings. As we have Talked before Overall Rating is not something I worry about, Gameplay is my Main Goal. And sometimes Overall can look a little OFF to get the Game Engine to play right. This year I was able to find a combination of Gameplay & Sim Stats in 2k15, Hopefully they havent messed with the System.

I'm not saying you just whoever is rating him.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by BluFu

Again, why are you comparing the minutes of bench guys to a player who has logged over 42,000 minutes as a starter.

Because season numbers matter significantly more than career numbers (and LOL if you think otherwise).

1200 minutes is more than enough to figure out Kobe doesn't deserve the following attributes

99 Offensive Consistency (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL)
50 Offensive Rebound (Career low 2.3%)
80 Defensive Consistency (LOL even before Achillies tear)
85 On-Ball Defense (See above)

Quote:

You're saying 10 games from Rose and 6 from George aren't enough but 35 games is?

1. You do realize there is a significant difference between 7-13% and 43%, right?

2. 100-300 minutes versus 1200 minutes. Again, a substantial difference. A player's season production has high variance up until the sample hits about 500 minutes

GSW Example

<500 minutes
Brandon Rush: 0.8 PER in 271 minutes
James McAdoo: 17.7 PER in 173 minutes
Ognjen Kuzmic: 12.9 PER in 72 minutes

One can't put much stock into the player performances in such limited (garbage time) minutes. Rush and McAdoo's production would likely level out over an extended period.

500-1000 minutes
Leandro Barbosa: 15.2 PER in 982 minutes
David Lee: 17.8 PER in 904 minutes
Justin Holiday: 12.1 PER in 657 minutes
Festus Ezeli: 16.2 PER in 504 minutes

Barbosa had his best season in years and that was reflected in his numbers (and his 2016 contract).

David Lee's struggled in a bench role when healthy, wasn't at his usual fringe all-star level, and his numbers reflected that. By your standard he should be getting the Kobe treatment (yet is confirmed to have a 76 OVR rating, lower than Kristaps Porzingis).

Holiday's improved production in "limited minutes" netted him a multi-year contract with a contender.

Ezeli was much improved once he returned from injury, and his production seamlessly carried over the playoffs (16.1 PER in 183 minutes). He is the reason David Lee fell out of the playoff rotation and was later traded.

None of these players recorded 1000 minutes, yet we can CLEARLY make evaluations based on their performance (and NBA teams have actively done so in each instance)... Kobe played more than all of these players yet you would have us believe Kobe didn't play enough to get a fair assessment?

There's a reason nobody is pegging the Lakers for the playoffs with a healthy Kobe. There's a reason he didn't even crack SI's top 50.
There's a reason the Lakers are talking about playing him at SF/PF.

He played enough. Only a casual/biased NBA fan would think otherwise.

Quote:

do you think that's really a fair evaluation to grade one starter based on 35 games and another with 70? You can't just use 35 games

Yup, because most BENCH PLAYERS have even less PT to work with. As I pointed out previously, Kobe is not the only high-profile starter to miss half the season.

Quote:

so you go back to the previous season... common sense right? But he only played 6 games... So you need to use 12-13.

A substantial difference between the word "need" and "WANT"

You continue to go in circles and have yet to explain why games played is more important than minutes played with regard to sample. There is no "need" to go back in time hunting for data that no longer applies to the player's present form.

Quote:

It's done.... Beds has already rated him

Which doesn't protect 2K from any scrutiny or criticism where warranted. The rating is biased, and does not reflect Kobe's actual value (in league circles, on the court, or otherwise). As has been stated, casual NBA fans buy games too (and they make up far more of the consumer base). That's fine, I get that. Using faulty logic to justify it as anything else is simply that.

Quote:

When a guy plays badly for a long enough time, his rating will be reduced.

Except in this case, evidently.

[BluFu]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

None of these players recorded 1000 minutes, yet we can CLEARLY make evaluations based on their performance (and NBA teams have actively done so in each instance)... Kobe played more than all of these players yet you would have us believe Kobe didn't play enough to get a fair assessment?

Are you reading what I'm saying or just hitting reply? You cannot compare outliers in minutes played for a starter to regular minutes for a bench player. It doesn't make sense to.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

There's a reason the Lakers are talking about playing him at SF/PF.

Byron Scott is not a smart man

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

He played enough. Only a casual/biased NBA fan would think otherwise.

When you've got nothing left to say

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Which doesn't protect 2K from any scrutiny or criticism where warranted. The rating is biased, and does not reflect Kobe's actual value (in league circles, on the court, or otherwise). As has been stated, casual NBA fans buy games too (and they make up far more of the consumer base). That's fine, I get that. Using faulty logic to justify it as anything else is simply that. Except in this case, evidently.

So you're just going to ignore the fact that other players have been rated this way before and that Kobe is not getting any special treatment or bias whatsoever...

Spoiler

Quote: Originally Posted by BluFu

Start of season Rondo: 87 (!!) He only played 30 games the year before. 15.3 PER DWill: 84 (!!) 64 games year before, averaged 14 and 6 Rose: 88 (!!) 10 games year before, avg 16 and 4 Tony: 88 (!) 68 games before, avg 17 and 6 Howard: 88 ... avg 18 and 12 in 71 games Now Rondo: 79 ... 68 games played (we know how those went) DWill: 78 ... 68 games played (rating could drop even more at the start of 2K16) Rose: 85 ... 51 games played, avg 18 and 5 Tony: 84 ... 68 games played, avg 14 and 4 Howard: 88 ... 41 games played These guys all received the "benefit of the doubt" until a certain extent. If Kobe can consistently play games and does consistently bad, you'll definitely see his rating drop.

Quote: Originally Posted by vtcrb

In all seriousness though, Until i see IF any New Attributes have been Added OR if any Attributes are Weighted differently, it is tough to debate the Overall Ratings.

Just leaving these here... (in case you "missed them")