NBA 2K16 Player Ratings & Screenshots - Day Four: Kobe, Wall, Ross & More

[thedream2k16]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoneyOvaHuds

Don't be coming in here trashing my PG yo I won't stand for it lol yea Rose has been under preforming because of major rust and injuries but even then he was still a bottom top 10 maybe 12 PG . I'm just happy he finally got his knee right cuz it was obvious it was healing right when he was only playing good every 3 games. His first offseason since 2011 that he finally gets to focus on his game and not rehab is a good look . I admit Rose hasn't looked like the old rose but he did show flashes he still had it in him , he just needs to find be more consistent . It's still only 3 PGs I would take over him cuz I know what he my mans can do in big moments because I watched him so much over the years . Head to head matchups vs other PGs he always takes it personal and steps up

hope his 2k rating reflects his strengths and weakness. Rose shot so bad last season and didnt have his old vertical lift. Driving is his strength but shooting and passing should be his 2k weakness. 28% from 3 for a starting PG isnt good

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaddupCouzin

As someone so eloquently stated earlier in this thread, the shots Steph takes would have had 90% of the players in the league benched. Just because you make the shot doesn't mean it's not a poorly selected shot. Kobe got away with ridiculously poorly selected shots for years, but now that they're not falling, it's an issue of shot selection, when his shot selection has always been poor. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

If you make it, the shot selection isn't poor. Curry's shot selection isn't poor. In fact him taking those ridiculous shots and making it is what opens up the Warriors' offense. If Curry's shot selection was "good" for an average NBA player, the Warriors' offense would suffer significantly. He does take a few heat checks though.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, Klay's selection is worse. It's often out of rhythm of the offense and doesn't really create gravity or benefit playmaking the way Curry's shot selection does.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

Admittedly I am no cheeser but we have a couple arcade nation dudes in house as well. Also I always play the game in debug so I can see the shot percentage chances of every single attempted shot during a game. I expect a full apology if you end up agreeing with me. And If I'm wrong then we will just forget this convo ever happened. Agreed ? Good . ROTFLOL. #SimNation

The game isn't done until sim nation beats arcade nation 9 out of 10 times.

I've always thought a game's design is only truly revealed when played at its highest level. 2ak should hire one of the top cheesy leaderboard guys and design the game until he either becomes a sim player because the mechanics force that, or he rage quits.

I know you're after our own hearts, Da Czar, but 2K has enticed cheese elimination or reduction every year but that's never truly ever happened to a degree that's especially noteworthy. And sometimes patches actually make the issue worse to be honest.

[WaddupCouzin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

If you make it, the shot selection isn't poor. Curry's shot selection isn't poor. In fact him taking those ridiculous shots and making it is what opens up the Warriors' offense. If Curry's shot selection was "good" for an average NBA player, the Warriors' offense would suffer significantly. He does take a few heat checks though. Like I mentioned in the other thread, Klay's selection is worse. It's often out of rhythm of the offense and doesn't really create gravity or benefit playmaking the way Curry's shot selection does.

Completely disagree with your Curry sentiment. I'll agree to disagree. I could go into other examples, but what's the point. Getting away with a bad shot, doesn't mean the selection was good, it just means you got away with it.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[23]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

I don't believe you will be able to. At least I currently can't. From what I am seeing when playing the game this year an 85 in 2k15 is not the same in gameplay as an 85 in 2K16. At least where Kobe is concerned. My last game with Kobe I was 2-12 I tried to force the action a bit to no avail. I don't see anyone really winning games by playing through him unless they move him around and find really favorable matchups. There have been lots of under the hood changes that effect how the game actually plays out. So it might be worth seeing what you can actually do with each guy before burning the house down based on an overall number.

I cannot wait to challenge him with russell westbrook to see who can jack up the most bad shots.

Ill be yelling at the monitor and everything just like real life rwb only it'll be my fault

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by lakers24

I knew someone was going to cherry pick that part of my comment without including the rest of what I stated. His overall encompasses everything he's able to do as a basketball player correct? If that's the case, Kobe is still one of the most highly skilled and cerebral players even at his old age which is proven by his FTA per and his increase in overall floor game in those games I pointed out (granted before that he was garbage most of the time). Also, the TS% percentage I pointed out was to prove that he actually was improving slowly during that period after Byron stopped running him ragged and he dropped his usage %. I pointed out right before the TS% statement that 2 games out of the 8 he shot below 40% which drastically affected his shooting averages during that 8 games (that happens with smaller samples). He had 2 stinkers coming off rest against Miami and the Clippers, if you take out those 2 his TS% jumps up to 57.7% and his eFG% to 54.6. As a sidenote, here's his other percentages (from all 8 games): TRB%14, AST% 44.94, USG% 28.42.

If you have to cherry pick a small segment of his season to show Kobe hasn't been terrible 8 games), and when his TS is STILL terrible have to cherry pick more games to remove from that sample set resulting in a tiny six game sample, then it's probably not a valid way to justify an 85 rating.

Especially when we have a much, much, larger sample set to work from over the last two seasons.

If Kobe is really improving, then just rate him at his average performance (80-82) and increase his rating when he shows it on the court in the 2015-2016 season.

No one else gets to maintain a massive stat overrate from six games in two years.

And while Kobe is skilled in a variety of ways, he isn't on one complete end of the court and his skills are declining (or rather athleticism is) so that he's not that effective on the other end either. His shot making is also down, and he's not a impact rebounder, so what are we left with? His passing is still great ironically, but he doesn't choose to nearly enough, so that should dock points from his IQ or vision.

2K ratings rate OVR by archetype, and I don't think there is an archetype that is "all-around offensively skilled player that actually has negative offensive impact". So more then likely Kobe is overrated on several categories with a hesitancy to dock him where he's been least effective.

[MoneyOvaHuds]

Quote: Originally Posted by thedream2k16

hope his 2k rating reflects his strengths and weakness. Rose shot so bad last season and didnt have his old vertical lift. Driving is his strength but shooting and passing should be his 2k weakness. 28% from 3 for a starting PG isnt good

He's actually a real decent passer , his 3 should be poor and his layup should be down a little. He said he was working on him finishing better because he took a step back so we shall see . He looked much better at the basket after meniscus removed later last year . I think rose is still really athletic he just isn't as reckless as he was with it .

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaddupCouzin

Completely disagree with your Curry sentiment. I'll agree to disagree. I could go into other examples, but what's the point. Getting away with a bad shot, doesn't mean the selection was good, it just means you got away with it. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

If you're making it on historical levels leading to insane efficiency, it's not poor shot selection. Shot selection needs to account for the player's skill, what better options there are, and what it does to the overall offense. It's not just something you can apply without context based on an arbitrary, aesthetic standard.

The skyhook would be terrible shot selection for most players. So would Jordan's turnaround fade. So would Curry's step back three. It's not poor shot selection for them. It's just unguardable.

Again he does take some heat checks that might be unnecessary, but would Curry be a more effective player if he took less behind the back cross over threes? No. Would opposing defenses hound him with multiple players if he wasn't liable to pull up at any time? No. Would GSW's offense be as potent if this wasn't causing so much gravity and spacing and their role players to be open? No. Would Curry playing more like a conventional good shot taker like Harrison Barnes help GSW at all? No.

You can agree or disagree on the aesthetics of shot selection with no context to skill, accuracy, or effect on the scoreboard, but what's not arguable is Curry's objective and sustainable impact on the game. That is real shot selection.

Kobe has always had questionable shot selection-- his TS isn't actually that high for a superstar, but it's debatable whether it's truly a bad shot at his prime because he drew sufficient defense for his selection to be a plus. Same thing with Lebron this post season. Westbrook's selection is actually poor because he's only average efficiency shooting shots he's not great at and you wonder if there are better options-- THAT is getting away with it.

A .60+ TS leading the NBA's top two offense to a ring is not "getting away with it". A ridiculous efficiency his entire career is not "getting away with it". The constant fear opponents have of him pulling up allowing him to drive and massively improve his penetration game is not "getting away with it". It's an effective offensive and winning plan, and if anything, Curry should be taking more threes to test the limits of what's possible for him.

It may look like "getting away with it" to someone who hasn't followed GSW in detail or Curry closely for the majority of his career, but if your definition of good shot selection doesn't actually make the team or his player better and would also apply to all time greats winning rings taking shots others can't make, then that definition is meaningless.

Again, to clarify, I'm not talking about the random heat checks out of the offensive flow that I don't especially mind. I'm talking about the record breaking volume of threes he shoots at high difficulty with unparalleled accuracy. If his accuracy exceeds the average NBA midrange, and his efficiency from there exceeds that of a good big man in the paint, AND there's no immediate and better way for him to play in a team concept, any "definition of poor shot selection" that applies to him is unhelpful and somewhat suspect.

It certainly has to mean more than "that looks like a hard shot and I don't like it".