NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

[CaseIH]

Quote: Originally Posted by JRxPHANTOM

It's definitely both. However, the shooting is just awful and broken because of the green perfect releases. I can post fade with many big guys and get green releases almost every time. Take Al Jefferson for example. I can get his post fade green release 8/10 times. Defense or no defense.

You must be really good at your players shooting releases to get green almost every time. Even since this last patch I don't get very many green releases whether its a jumpshot or free throw, and all I play with is the Pacers. I do have games where I shoot a good %, but I don't get very many green releases. I know Im probably 1 of the worst players on here since I have been on all the pain meds Im on, but I must be even worse than I thought if people get green often,lol.

[jrose57]

Quote: Originally Posted by CaseIH

You must be really good at your players shooting releases to get green almost every time. Even since this last patch I don't get very many green releases whether its a jumpshot or free throw, and all I play with is the Pacers. I do have games where I shoot a good %, but I don't get very many green releases. I know Im probably 1 of the worst players on here since I have been on all the pain meds Im on, but I must be even worse than I thought if people get green often,lol.

You really need to stop mentioning about your pain meds every thread, just focus on the topics man...

[CaseIH]

Quote: Originally Posted by jrose57

You really need to stop mentioning about your pain meds every thread, just focus on the topics man...

I post quite often around here, and the only time I post about anything to do with my health is when Im talking about sliders, or shot timing, since I know mine experience will be different than others here, and its only been a couple times, not that I care what you think anyway. Definitely not doing it for any other reason than that. Plus I know how some here will say dam you just suck man, well yeah, but there is a reason why I do. I actually use to be fairly descent at this game and sports game at 1 point in my life, now I just play them for fun and bordem.

[CaseIH]

For those that play offline, do you feel you just shoot better from the perimeter or do you feel its both you and the AI ? I have been noticing that the AI don't seem to shoot all that great ever from 3pt range. I'd say from short range, and long 2pt shots they are pretty good, but from deep they seem to struggle. I was thinking about bumping up the AI's 3pt shooting, as wondered if anyone else has did this and what they have set there 3pt slider for the AI, right now I just have it at default sim which is 47.

[Coach2K]

Quote: Originally Posted by stillfeelme

Coach I agree with some of that but not all of it. If you create a system where perfect release equals 100%, then stick skills play a more bigger role than actual real life %'s. Basically the original post demonstrated that the game becomes unrealistic because a skilled user is able to make a player shoot much better if they are able to time their shot. I already realized this means your whole defensive strategy changes because you now have to defend non-shooters much differently because their shot is not glitched. Take a look at these Pacers numbers. The Pacers as a team shoot 42% when wide open occording to SportsVU and 35% when contested tight. So as a team they only are better 6.7% when open. I think they did this kind of study last year and it showed that the NBA as a whole only shoots 5% better on average when open. The CPU engine should be about as close you can to what you have shown, which is why I think they need to seriously look at getting rid of perfect success equals 99% success. They need individual ratings for open and when contested. All of this was found on NBA.com. This is looking at jumpers 10 feet or greater.

A little bit back I posted some box scores from actual user vs user games. I sampled the first five I posted (I think I posted 15) and I then went in and checked the actual game played in the nba and made a chart of the real shot percentages vs 2k results.

These are all post patch, all user vs user, hof sim, 12 minute quarters and with defensive assist set to zero and shot contest set to manual.

There are some differences but I don't think they are too far from what the real games were that the changes they made really exposed flaws in the shooting system.

If you don't play users on hall of fame sim, and play on lower difficulties, I think I could see where the shooting percentages might be higher - especially in the my team arena where the difficulty is pro I think and the squads more superstar oriented.

I know DaCzar has said they tuned the game for superstar sim but hall of fame sim is where some of the best users play each other and so personally I think the game should be tuned to hall of fame sim user vs user myself.

My guess is that the they've tuned the game user vs CPU side to superstar sim and not to user v user superstar sim.

What I've noticed in league play is that if you put a strong offensive user versus a weaker defender or a guy off his defensively that day, then you'll see a higher percentage for that game.

But you can't base percentages on the strongest of the strongest users in league play vs guys not as strong. In order to have balance, you have to tune to the midpoint of those users instead of tuning to only the best players in the game.

If you make shooting harder for lower levels, you basically ruin the game for those of us playing up high end user v user.

This patch fixed that for us in my opinion.

Here's that chart I made so you can see the differences which are not that dramatic:

[jrose57]

Sorry, I am not understanding you completely but would love to do so, when you said DaCzar mentioned about how the game was tuned for superstar sim, do you mean the way Mike Wang posted patch four for us is to create a better experience for superstar sim or do you mean the way this game was built was meant to let users to feel the most realism while playing against the CPU? I have been playing the game before and after the patch and I feel like it is a little bit too easy for some reason, it is strange to me that the game is easy for superstar sim because for the past few years, the game is quite perfect vs CPU on this level but apparently is not for this year, anyways I don’t want to go too off topic but I just want to know exactly what you mean by “the game is tuned for superstar sim”… thanks bro!

Quote: Originally Posted by www.Coach2K.com

A little bit back I posted some box scores from actual user vs user games. I sampled the first five I posted (I think I posted 15) and I then went in and checked the actual game played in the nba and made a chart of the real shot percentages vs 2k results. These are all post patch, all user vs user, hof sim, 12 minute quarters and with defensive assist set to zero and shot contest set to manual. There are some differences but I don't think they are too far from what the real games were that the changes they made really exposed flaws in the shooting system. If you don't play users on hall of fame sim, and play on lower difficulties, I think I could see where the shooting percentages might be higher - especially in the my team arena where the difficulty is pro I think and the squads more superstar oriented. I know DaCzar has said they tuned the game for superstar sim but hall of fame sim is where some of the best users play each other and so personally I think the game should be tuned to hall of fame sim user vs user myself. My guess is that the they've tuned the game CPU side to superstar sim. What I've noticed in league play is that if you put a strong offensive user versus a weaker defender or a guy off his defensively that day, then you'll see a higher percentage for that game. Here's that chart I made so you can see the differences:

[Coach2K]

Quote: Originally Posted by jrose57

Sorry, I am not understanding you completely but would love to do so, when you said DaCzar mentioned about how the game was tuned for superstar sim, do you mean the way Mike Wang posted patch four for us is to create a better experience for superstar sim or do you mean the way this game was built was meant to let users to feel the most realism while playing against the CPU? I have been playing the game before and after the patch and I feel like it is a little bit too easy for some reason, it is strange to me that the game is easy for superstar sim because for the past few years, the game is quite perfect vs CPU on this level but apparently is not for this year, anyways I don’t want to go too off topic but I just want to know exactly what you mean by “the game is tuned for superstar sim”… thanks bro!

Honestly, I don't know what DaCzar means by tuned to superstar sim but what I take it to mean is that the end results box score wise cpu to cpu are realistic.

But my guess is that even DaCzar will tell you that no matter how you tune the game that because user skill is so varied, it's not tuned to anyone. It could be that you could play the game and have a great experience on superstar sim and someone else may not.

Whatever level you play on, if you play it long enough and you work at it, you'll eventually improve your numbers over time. I remember starting the game on pro difficulty a few years back and it was hard to score. But put me on pro level now and I'll torch the CPU even with my current Pacers sqaud.

If I play the HOF CPU this year, I find I can't defend yet and am giving up sky high shooting percentages. Compared to previous years my experience so far stinks vs the HOF CPU.

But versus users, I find it's more inline on both side as you can see from the chart I posted.

Before they changed the fouls a few patches ago, I was lucky to score 70 versus users. Fouls helped. But even still I would go 1/13 from three. While the data shows the Pacers aren't very good shooting team, the problem with shooting for me was that no matter how much I practiced at the highest level, I couldn't improve.

I'd watch the real life Pacers have games where they would hit threes but never duplicate it.

Now at least I feel I can.

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is this.

Yes, there are more greens but it's laid out like everyone is hitting everything but no one is shooting 100 percent in my league on hof sim over the course of a 12 minute quarter game.

Yes it is true, they are shooting better and now defense has to get better. Before the patch, the game defended for us. We could let guys shoot knowing they wouldn't hit.

The data from good users at the highest level shows results not far off from the a real life game between the same teams.

[ItsJustaGame]

Despite what some users have said, it's ridiculously easy to get green releases more than 75% of the time online. I've been saying this for a while now too.. You don't even have to be a great shooter or have your timing down-pat. All that matters is that you have a little space, and shoot the "right" way.

And also, this is stretching a little, but 3-pointers and mid-range are almost identical when it comes to timing and green releases, at least in the Rec center and especially in the corners.

I can't say that it isn't fun to go out and score a ton of points all the time, but when anyone can do it anytime--that's a big problem, and that's why I'm not down with the online shooting mechanics. Since the last 2 patches, every other game there will be at least one team scoring over 100 easy in the rec, unless the teams don't know how to shoot or move the ball around.