Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

[Kaanyr Vhok]

I wish I could take Fifa’s defensive stance and its turbostance and place it into NBA 2k. I would also take NBA 2k’s right stick and move it into Fifa so tit for tat? No...

I understand that its far easier to steal the ball and stay in front of someone in soccer so assume stealing the ball has nothing to do with it. Fifa’s advantages are in control, speed, momentum, AI and physics. Fifa's greatest strength is that is has an organic/realistic foundation. It’s the same thing EA attempted with Live so PAUSE I understand its harder to deliver in a basketball game however I would argue that Visual Concepts hasn’t truly tried.

Control- The stance was improved in 2k14 CG. In NG it’s back to 2k13 which wasn’t good, neither was 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6.... NBA 2k has never had a good defensive stance. CH 2k8 arguably did. To understand why you have to step back and realize that it doesn’t even have a defensive stance at all. The automated defensive stance never made sense to me. I remember Rashidi, who I usually agree with said that it should be automated because NBA players are always in a stance.

Maybe



…but not in relation with the ball and their man? As you can see here Hibbert is in an onball stance and he is not close to where it would automate in 2k14 without using the “intense D” which would make Hibbert move like he was holding a 400 pound medicine ball. The slowest player in Fifa could slide down while keeping good relation with Birdman. To intentionally strafe at any place on the court you have to reduce your speed. If you give up too much ground you lose your automated stance, and there are holes in its motion. If you attempt to move backwards/diagonally its ungodly slow. This is even true with the best onball defenders. Its like there is a hole in the animation. You cant do it unless the offensive player is moving. The stance hops out of place with what I would consider unrelated input. Its not just slow its unintuitive, unresponsive and jerky. In Fifa if you want to get into a stance you just press the stance button. There are no variables or penalties.

Physics-
Fifa is just less canned. You can get a penalty in fifa just by sprinting into someone. Fifa’s physics is impressive. It’s the first time I have ever seen two guys collide in an unscripted animation with both guys dazed and the announcers commenting on it. The physics are fair. You simply cant just run someone over like you can in NBA 2k. Contact cancels animations in Fifa. In NBA 2k animations cancel contact. That’s ok in a classic poterization like what LeBron did to Millsap and Mclemore or someone with a major momentum advantage. I’m talking about Durant starting a layup with Wes Matthews in front of him and going through the entire layup animation while running though him unimpaired.



Speed-
Its amazing how much faster fifa’s stance is. You include the right trigger and you are really moving. Its seamless too. No hitches. NBA 2k has always had a problem capturing speed. The ratings are slanted to superficially give guards a speed advantage that they don’t necessarily have in real life or need since ballhandling and a jumpshot are better tools for penetrating than speed. That much is true in the game and out.

The slowest of the slow (sub 55 speed) in NBA 2k are too slow. I recorded evidence of this when John Wall sprinted past Robin Lopez in a 3/4 race to the hoop even though Lopez had a running start and a three yard lead. If you give the slowest NFL lineman a running start and three yards in a 40 yard dash he would beat anyone in the league else he is too fat to make the team. That is truer in the NBA. A global 50 point onball buff might make the defenders move like athletes but I suspect they would get away with more blocking fouls and the game still doesn’t let you drive through the baseline like so many guards do. That’s an indication that the game already has at least a little too much perimeter contact.

Momentum-
The Fifa players are moving in their stance. When you turbo the stance they look like professional athletes so you don’t feel cheated when the offensive player changes direction and momentum carriers you in your current. Hibbert or any center moves like an arthritic sloth in their stance, and the best defenders move like slow high school kids yet momentum has the same effect on them if not worse. Robin Lopez literally changes directions in “intense D” at a walking pace. Its like people complained so much about not being able to blow by bigs in previous games that they were reduced to nothing. Ive said for years that the most likely occurrence when bigs are switched to guards is jump shots but I never heard anyone say they cant shoot on a mismatch.

AI-
As bad as the onball defense is it would make sense to not play it. The offball defense is improved but without defensive settings it still breaks down letting guys who cant shoot back door or sagging off of shooters. There is enough babysitting to make offball defense as fun as an escort mission in a shooter which usually isn’t that fun at all. People naturally want to play onball. I’ve explained why people dont yet we are still penalized by reducing the CPU’s AI when they play onball for you. The CPU’s onball defense is a bailout foul waiting to happen. Mike Wang confirmed it. If you are guarding the ball the refs are far friendlier. That is the cycle of the design flaw. In Fifa you play onball defense because its fun, in NBA 2k you play onball defense to reduce bailout fouls.

[The 24th Letter]

Entertaining read, enjoyed the hyperboles about the medicine ball/sloth and all that..but you cant just put a throwaway line about how its harder to replicate contact in basketball, and subsequently ignore that fact in the next couple of paragraphs...basketball and soccer are two very different sports...

As of 2K12 and every basketball game before it, basketball games relied heavily on two man animations, 2K13 was a start, in that there weren't nearly as many, but there weren't enough defensive animations to counter the offensive ones, and right now Live 14 is in the same position (which is why I look forward to seeing what they do in 15).....as much grief as we want to give 2k14, it's one of the best as fair as contact to date...are there still traces of canned animations, times where animations miss or don't blend properly? Yes, absolutely....but you can't say "Hey, look at this football, soccer, baseball game", you have to look at where we are as far as basketball....but I think we are on our way there...

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk

[turty11]

my one real problem is the animations overriding contact as you said...and the forced animations on top of that...if 2k cuts those out (which i believe is completely possible) it will probably be the best playing sports game ever in 2k15 (i can wish cant i?)

[reptilexcq]

I always thought 2K screwed up the game play on every iterations after 2K7. If they can make the game and give the user total control like they did to 2K7 and still retained all those animations, momentum and physics...then and ONLY THEN did they have a truly GREAT GAME!! All these animations and physics crap that they put into the game screwed the game play and ultimate screwed the ONLINE gaming as well because it is too slow due to the heavy use of animations. You can't time the shot at all online....it's more like guessing...even at the foul lines...it's horrible. And also it seems like they're changing the mechanic of the shot made as well. The probability of making the shots depend on the animations of the player before the released shot and not how much time you pressed down the button. I used to be able to just know how long i have to press the button down and hold it to make free throws. NOw it's like you have to watch the animations of the released arm and it's horrible online due to lag. Horrible mechanics.

[alabamarob]

Good post. I only disagree with the speed and change of direction of bigs comment. The bigs are to nimble on next gen. Current gen has a good representation of speed and on ball defense. Bring back sig dribbling so that every guard can't get to the rack like cp3 also.

[Tomba]

Fifa speed though admittedly better etc is still missing transitional animations sometimes when you hold down the trigger in fifa 14 you get this horrible hunched over acceleration and that also occurs in nba 2k14 though now it can be fixed via dribble stance and dribbling slider(which also effects running animations by the way)

Though there IS a fix for it...It is a fix that combines unneeded slider and rosters work which I feel in next gen can be solved if 2k JUST added say 4 more key raining and acceleration animations ingot heir game.

Just capture the animation and problem solved 2k

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Quote: Originally Posted by alabamarob

Good post. I only disagree with the speed and change of direction of bigs comment. The bigs are to nimble on next gen. Current gen has a good representation of speed and on ball defense. Bring back sig dribbling so that every guard can't get to the rack like cp3 also.

bigs were too slow in CG
Perfect example
http://youtu.be/tl0L3pxToSE?t=8m44s

with the current speed threshold any rating below 55 is too slow. Everyone is too slow in their stance but big men are remarkably slow when you use intense defense which, if you want to use proper footwork is your only choice.

[alabamarob]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok

bigs were too slow in CG Perfect example http://youtu.be/tl0L3pxToSE?t=8m44s with the current speed threshold any rating below 55 is too slow. Everyone is too slow in their stance but big men are remarkably slow when you use intense defense which, if you want to use proper footwork is your only choice.

2 things.

1) I dont even look at combine sprint numbers, because I dont think they represent a players game speed. Especially for big men who put on significant weight once they hit the league. I would need to know the sportuv or sportvu (can't remember which one) to find out the sprint speeds of a player to decide what there speed should be.

2) I agree that the speed ratings on the game stink. But andrew bynum and Aaron gay are slow and cant move well. Most bigs use their length to defend in a half court setting, not speed and quickness. Until the game adds an acceleration and deceleration rating I think cg is the best we will get. Its not bad imo.