Lack of rim rolls/bounces in the game. A side effect of the green or miss era?

[EccentricMeat]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

The whole “wanna be pro”, “Guys like us who actually like simulation basketball” rhetoric is a bit silly man…Your view (and really these parts in general) of the online community is outdated. The man who started “Simnation” evolved to understand this, we should too. Whats crazy is that it’s so one-sided…I never see online players talking about “wannabe GMs making fantasy worlds” offline. Some just like the competitive aspect of playing against other humans. but that’s a topic for another day. I’ve not once heard that complaint Pokes mentioned from any guard, but IMO Long rebounds were definitely overdone to start the year, It felt like the ball was being shot on a double rim at the playground. Hell, I still see them, which I like. I’ve played at the big all year and have seen many balls sail over my head while I’m boxing out…leading to a break. I have the feeling that if they kept it like it was and Jalen Brunson started averaging 15 rebounds in folks MyLeague’s we’d have a thread now saying online players ruined the game because they want NBA JAM rim physics or something, lol In seriousness though, In a perfect world there would be a separation. The problem with things like that being tweaked is…I don’t know if you can separate a mid year physics change like that on/offline.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean, you don't see online players complain about offline sim guys because 1) most of them don't even realize people play this game offline, and 2) sim players' complaints don't lead to the game changing massively every year to cater to their wishes, ruining the online experience.

I guarantee if 2K forced online guys to miss a few greens because they took a terrible shot, or they lost their handle because of dribble spam, or long rebounds forced them not to cherry pick every single play for years on end, they would hate on us offline guys FAR more than we hate on them.

Online players can't go a week with a sim aspect making them feel less like a "pro gamer" without raising hell on Twitter and getting the game ruined for us to appease them. Meanwhile our complaints get a "well, sorry" for 8+ years straight now. Of course it's a one-sided issue lol 2K doesn't listen to us. You can call us outdated for wanting a realistic depiction of the sport, cool, but that's why we're asking for two separate gameplay modes. Let us have our "outdated" realistic gameplay without forcing the online crowd to play basketball, too.

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by EccentricMeat

I mean, you don't see online players complain about offline sim guys because 1) most of them don't even realize people play this game offline, and 2) sim players' complaints don't lead to the game changing massively every year to cater to their wishes, ruining the online experience. I guarantee if 2K forced online guys to miss a few greens because they took a terrible shot, or they lost their handle because of dribble spam, or long rebounds forced them not to cherry pick every single play for years on end, they would hate on us offline guys FAR more than we hate on them. Online players can't go a week with a sim aspect making them feel less like a "pro gamer" without raising hell on Twitter and getting the game ruined for us to appease them. Meanwhile our complaints get a "well, sorry" for 8+ years straight now. Of course it's a one-sided issue lol 2K doesn't listen to us. You can call us outdated for wanting a realistic depiction of the sport, cool, but that's why we're asking for two separate gameplay modes. Let us have our "outdated" realistic gameplay without forcing the online crowd to play basketball, too.

I’ll sidestep the dramatics of the last paragraph because you know good and well I did call wanting a realistic game outdated…but it is pretty indicative of how any attempts of actual conversation goes when it comes to these things…and you wonder why they don’t listen.

I’m an “online player”, I have no desire to be a “pro player”. I know basketball, have played basketball at a high level in real life, and enjoy various aspects of the game. I’ll push back against the silly notion that everyone not trying to replicate box scores vs. the CPU is some kind of “ugh I like greens” Neanderthal every single time. Stop putting people in boxes. Yes, that ideology is outdated. Simnation has never been about strictly playing the game offline.

The irony of all the examples you gave is that sim players influence on the game was a pretty hotly contested debate this year. There’s a entire section of the community having real discussions instead of spamming “fix rebounding”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Real2KInsider]

1. Rim physics slow the gameplay down.

2. In 20+ years the game never had good rim physics and it messed with rebounding balance.

Swishes might be "annoying" but the ends justify the means.

[vetmin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Real2KInsider

1. Rim physics slow the gameplay down.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I appreciate any little ways of slowing the gameplay down like this. I think as gamers we tend to play a little faster than real life (since we're not actually out there running around and getting tired), so for realism's sake it's kind of nice to have some checks against that. Personally when inbounding the ball while the clock is live I always count 1-2-3 Mississippi too, just to make the pace feel a little more realistic.

Quote:

2. In 20+ years the game never had good rim physics and it messed with rebounding balance.

I'm curious about the rebounding balance thing. What are you referring to?

[shaqfu9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Real2KInsider

1. Rim physics slow the gameplay down. 2. In 20+ years the game never had good rim physics and it messed with rebounding balance. Swishes might be "annoying" but the ends justify the means.

Rim physics slow the gameplay down? There's no way. I don't think waiting a few centiseconds is the reason.

Rn, I'm playing 2k23 (PS4) instead of 2k24 New Gen because among other things, it has a great variety of swishes and ball-rim interactions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XYRXN4tcCA

If you add to 2k23 old gen some of the outcomes of this video, along with a few more long rebound animations, it would be perfect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17H-NjaN47o

That would not only make the gameplay less robotic and realistic, it would make rebounding much more important.

Guards and wings not boxing out could have consequences. And good rebounders who can read where the ball is going would separate themselves from those who only spam triangle/Y when the ball is near the rim. At the end of the day it's a skill issue lol.

[shaqfu9]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

I’ll sidestep the dramatics of the last paragraph because you know good and well I did call wanting a realistic game outdated…but it is pretty indicative of how any attempts of actual conversation goes when it comes to these things…and you wonder why they don’t listen. I’m an “online player”, I have no desire to be a “pro player”. I know basketball, have played basketball at a high level in real life, and enjoy various aspects of the game. I’ll push back against the silly notion that everyone not trying to replicate box scores vs. the CPU is some kind of “ugh I like greens” Neanderthal every single time. Stop putting people in boxes. Yes, that ideology is outdated. Simnation has never been about strictly playing the game offline. The irony of all the examples you gave is that sim players influence on the game was a pretty hotly contested debate this year. There’s a entire section of the community having real discussions instead of spamming “fix rebounding” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last year I had a blast playing PNO. So I don't consider myself an 'offline sim' player only. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdLZ45ZcYug

But the clash of interests between both groups within the 2k community is pretty obvious.

Imo, 2k20 had the best player movement of any 2k, but it was completely removed the next year because players complained on Twitter about LS moves not being responsive and they ruined some of their dribble combos.

After the 2k24 ProPlay trailer, some 'online' players said they didn't like it because it was too slow and realistic, lol.

They asked for the green or miss system. But when the devs made the green window smaller to avoid extremely high % they complained about it as well.

They didn't like long rebounds because they actually had to box-out and help the team instead of cherry-picking for an easy bucket on the other end. They got them removed...

That's why we ask for separate modes. Because what's good for one group is not going to be liked by the other and viceversa.

[sirdez]

You're never going to get separate game play mechanics for separate modes though. That just isn't feasible.

[EccentricMeat]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

I’ll sidestep the dramatics of the last paragraph because you know good and well I did call wanting a realistic game outdated…but it is pretty indicative of how any attempts of actual conversation goes when it comes to these things…and you wonder why they don’t listen. I’m an “online player”, I have no desire to be a “pro player”. I know basketball, have played basketball at a high level in real life, and enjoy various aspects of the game. I’ll push back against the silly notion that everyone not trying to replicate box scores vs. the CPU is some kind of “ugh I like greens” Neanderthal every single time. Stop putting people in boxes. Yes, that ideology is outdated. Simnation has never been about strictly playing the game offline. The irony of all the examples you gave is that sim players influence on the game was a pretty hotly contested debate this year. There’s a entire section of the community having real discussions instead of spamming “fix rebounding” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would actually like to hear how my last paragraph was just "dramatics". The last 3-4 years straight have had the offline sim crowd praising how good the game is, while the online crowd bombarded 2K on Twitter with complaints about literally having to play semi-realistic basketball. And in each of those last 3-4 years, without fail, 2K has dropped an early patch to appease the online crowd that makes the game noticeably and irreversably less realistic for the sim/offline crowd.

I also never said every online player is the Twitter/YT self-proclaimed pros who attack 2K every time the game plays somewhat realistic. I simply pointed out that it's those players who 2K caters to, and it hurts the offline experience in different ways year after year.

Sadly it is an "us vs. them" situation, and that's why many of us are championing the "comp vs. sim" gameplay modes suggestion to fix everything. There will never come a time where the sim crowd gets their "perfect game" and the comp players are anywhere near happy about the online experience, and vice versa. So instead of trying to strike a balance and dev in circles year after year, find a way to split the gameplay experience so that two separate forms of adjustments can be made without effecting the opposite group.

It is legitimately the only solution that will work for everyone, so I don't see the argument against it. It will alleviate all the "us vs. them" BS, and it will make it easier for 2K to receive and implement feedback from the community.