Mike Wang : Survey on the shooting system (Twitter)

[spinoff]

Today Mike Wang posted this on twitter:

"Would like to hear specifically from Play Now Online and MT players who are primarily playing Team Control type modes. How are you doing with the more skill-based shot timing having to control multiple different players?"


His survey on twitter shows that he finally understood that you can't make one shooting system for multiple game modes: playing all a team or one player is not the same : good news.

However, for me, the problem is not whether it is too easy or not, the problem is that "green = make". Always, always. So it is silly to ask if the shooting system is too easy or not, because with some animations it is TOO easy AND with others it is TOO difficult. This is even absurd sometimes, for example: Curry's Floater and Abdul-Jabbar's Hook have very difficult timing. But really really difficult from the superstar difficulty: try! Jabbar's hook... wow, impossible... Crazy. Sometimes it's even easier to do a sprint shot or a shot after a spin than a simple catch and shoot. This is not logical! The result? There are animations that nobody uses, or movements that nobody uses...


Even the AI, when it makes "green=make" we can't do anything even if we contest at 100% ! I find the game easy in all star, in superstar it's harder, not because the ia is smarter, but because my shots go in less...or not... when I play with cheated animations...

I think they should stop green=make. They should do "green = big bonus %real shoot" instead. Or keep the current system but use the statistics of the players' tendencies to define which animations are easy or difficult.



But Mike wang has also expressed himself on reddit:

"There was a technical reason why we had to go with 4 settings instead of 5 (which would have included Normal.) This feature came in very late in the dev cycle, at which point we were no longer allowed to change the size of our save file format. So we had to get creative and use a dormant setting that wasn't being used. At the end of the day, the names of the 4 options are completely arbitrary since we changed how shot timing works compared to previous years anyway. So they might as well have been called 1, 2, 3, 4. But we just opted for more understandable names, even though it was weird that we didn't have a Normal option. We were thinking about going with Early, Normal, Late, and Very Late but that seemed equally weird. For 2k24, we'll implement the feature "properly" and give you guys 5 options.... that is, if we can't get the PGA shot calibration idea implemented that SandyDFS mentioned. that was what we originally wanted to do."

They want to make a system like in PGA tour. Why not. I want to see, but I am afraid to find the same problems as now.

But here's what makes me the most angry: "For 2k24, we'll implement the feature "properly" in other words in 2k23 the feature is not implemented properly, pay 90 dollars next year and you will have a properly implemented feature...

He admits that his shooting system was done at the last moment... at the last moment... personally I don't find that serious. Everything seems to me to have been done at the last moment. But, what angers me the most is to read that he will make a working system next year? next year? 2k24? You don't plan to fix your game? ACE, offensive/defensive tactics, animation bugs, reset command, reset animation, display errors, drafts that can't be loaded and much more. Other game developers fix their bugs without asking us to pay again. CyberPunk2077, they apologized, updates are free. It's been 3 years that I can't control the offensive tactics properly in nba2k: I have to wait another year and pay 90 dollars? Stop!

"For 2k24, we'll implement the feature "properly": Listen mike Wang, before talking about 2k24, finish your game... 500 dollars PS5 + 90 dollars a game that was done at the last moment? Do you know how much money it takes to make a "no properly" game? I can't even ask for a refund. I understand those who prefer NBA2k11 or 2k12. The AI and animations are not as good as 2k23, but at least the games were finished in the past. Finish your game this year before talking about the next one! Fix your game.

[The 24th Letter]

Mike put “properly” in quotations for a reason.

Let’s not put words in his mouth

Shooting was implemented how he wanted it to be, He’s noting that he will streamline the names in 2K24.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ksuttonjr76]

Real talk. The shooting setting is not something to even be angry about. We still got FOUR options available to us. If anything, he indirectly admitted that the 1 year of development period doesn't give them enough time to get everything in that they want sometimes. However, what they managed to get in was good enough for me and kinda innovative. The ability to "move" my green window based on how I shoot or to combat input/internet latency was brilliant.

PERSONALLY, I like the current shooting system, but it's probably the closest thing to NBA 2K11 for me. Speaking as an unofficial MyTeam player, it shouldn't change. Over time, the cards are going to get better which presumably should lead to people hitting more shots. I DO like that he implied to the MyPlayer crowd that they just need to learn how to get better, and there's no plans to change it. Now, I do see PNO players getting a reasonable tweak. If anything, I would prefer NBA 2K22's shooting mechanics in that mode.

EDIT: Interesting. Reading Twitter, the comments are mostly positive. Changing release timing based on the defense seems to be the main concern.

[alabamarob]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

Real talk. The shooting setting is not something to even be angry about. We still got FOUR options available to us. If anything, he indirectly admitted that the 1 year of development period doesn't give them enough time to get everything in that they want sometimes. However, what they managed to get in was good enough for me and kinda innovative. The ability to "move" my green window based on how I shoot or to combat input/internet latency was brilliant. PERSONALLY, I like the current shooting system, but it's probably the closest thing to NBA 2K11 for me. Speaking as an unofficial MyTeam player, it shouldn't change. Over time, the cards are going to get better which presumably should lead to people hitting more shots. I DO like that he implied to the MyPlayer crowd that they just need to learn how to get better, and there's no plans to change it. Now, I do see PNO players getting a reasonable tweak. If anything, I would prefer NBA 2K22's shooting mechanics in that mode. EDIT: Interesting. Reading Twitter, the comments are mostly positive. Changing release timing based on the defense seems to be the main concern.

Changing the release timing is the best thing that they have ever done. It makes shooting dynamic, and prevents the shooting from getting to easy once you have timed the basic release. Same with the layup, and floater animations. If you have to time a shot that could have 3 different release speeds, this will always keep shooting at a realistic level. But that is just my view on it.

[Mikelopedia]

This is my issue.
In team control based modes (can we include myNBA? Lol) using different players with a green or miss system leads users to "hunt" for the easiest animation. Since animation is more important than ratings, this causes a Detroit user for example to want to shoot more 3's with Killian Hayes than Saddiq Bey, or a Heat user to want to shoot more with Jimmy Butler than Max Strus. That's a problem. We need need the "window" to be determined by ratings, not animation.

[jk31]

If I have 3 options to choose from

2k11 based shooting where greens will miss lots of times
2k22 based shooting where everyone and their mother has a super easy green window
2k23 based shooting where it is hard to greens

I will take 2k11 all day long. But if 2k11 is not an option then I will chose 2k23. Yes, shooting is harder but at least most people are shooting low percentages which makes this game playable. 2k22 was the most horrible thing that I have ever seen. There literally was no player on the court which I could just ignore. Everyone was shooting lights out, even with < 70 rated 3pt shooters...

[spinoff]

Quote: Originally Posted by jk31

If I have 3 options to choose from 2k23 based shooting where it is hard to greens

No, 2k23 it's not difficult to make green, there are animations where I make green almost every time. So I always use the same animation and I win... The euro steps are very easy. Floaters are sometimes difficult. Reverse is difficult. That's the problem.

I didn't like the 2k22 system me to. The one in 2k21 was interesting but it had to improve.

It doesn't mean anything "too easy or too hard". It's both "too easy and too hard". You need a shooting system that is consistent with the players' tendencies. I should be able to make hook shots with abdul jabbar

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mikelopedia

This is my issue. In team control based modes (can we include myNBA? Lol) using different players with a green or miss system leads users to "hunt" for the easiest animation. Since animation is more important than ratings, this causes a Detroit user for example to want to shoot more 3's with Killian Hayes than Saddiq Bey, or a Heat user to want to shoot more with Jimmy Butler than Max Strus. That's a problem. We need need the "window" to be determined by ratings, not animation.

Ironically, I do see this in MyTeam. Users shooting 3's with players you wouldn't expect. I really want to call this "unintended consequences". In spirit, I feel they accomplished what they want to accomplish with this change to the shooting. However, between release window settings and certain animations, users gravitated to players that were more in alignment with their shooting style.

Personally, I haven't noticed a trend for a "catch all" shooting animation. The current state is probably not ideal, but I definitely prefer it over 2K22 where, as JK31 stated, you couldn't ignore certain players and everyone on the court was a 3PT threat.