OS Roundtable: What do you think of Cheatgate MLB 2K12?

[Heroesandvillains]

Hypothetical:

Rubik's Cube announced a $5 million award for the first person to successfully figure out it's puzzle. Contestants have one month from the date of entry to complete the cube. Once completed, a photo must be emailed to the company's official website.

Rules:

1. Contestants have 30 days to submit their photo of their completed puzzled via email. A completed cube consists of each side being the exact same color (I.E. One side must be red, one side must be blue, one side must be yellow, and one side must green).

2. The cube must be an official Rubik's product, thus the brand name must be included in the photograph along with a copy of the product's receipt if requested.

3. There is no limit on how many players can compete on one cube.

4. All entries will be evaluated by Rubik's and can be disqualified for any reason based on the discretion of our judges.

So I go to the store. I buy an official Rubick's Cube, a surgical quality knife, and some Gorilla glue.

Within 20 minutes, I've dissected all of the colored tape on the cube, and placed all of the like colors on their respective sides of the cube. I take a photo of the cube and email it to Rubik's. And I saved my receipt.

Nowhere in the rules does it explicitly say that the cube needs to be contorted to be finished. Though I knowingly went against the spirit of the competition, I technically didn't break the officially designated entry requirements.

We're talking life changing money here. Not to mention the integrity of a popular company. How someone at 2K didn't immediately (A) aknowledge that their rules should be clearer BUT (B) at least include a fine print rule that expressly stated that they could disqualify ANY participant for ANY reason is repulsive.

Note: To be fair, a fine print rule like this MAY exist. I'm not sure. If it does, try should use it.

Heads should roll over this. People should be fired.

It's irrelevant to me whether or not the rule forbade lineup switches. The point is that the participant in question knowingly made the adjustment, and the scoring system was broken enough to NOT factor in the actual lineups used. Under no circumstances should players using adjusted lineups be allowed to enter the final round UNLESS somehow their scores are recalculated.

Wow...this story really has me riled up.

[CPRoark]

Quote: Originally Posted by Heroesandvillains

Hypothetical: Rubik's Cube announced a $5 million award for the first person to successfully figure out it's puzzle. Contestants have one month from the date of entry to complete the cube. Once completed, a photo must be emailed to the company's official website. Rules: 1. Contestants have 30 days to submit their photo of their completed puzzled via email. A completed cube consists of each side being the exact same color (I.E. One side must be red, one side must be blue, one side must be yellow, and one side must green). 2. The cube must be an official Rubik's product, thus the brand name must be included in the photograph along with a copy of the product's receipt if requested. 3. There is no limit on how many players can compete on one cube. 4. All entries will be evaluated by Rubik's and can be disqualified for any reason based on the discretion of our judges. So I go to the store. I buy an official Rubick's Cube, a surgical quality knife, and some Gorilla glue. Within 20 minutes, I've dissected all of the colored tape on the cube, and placed all of the like colors on their respective sides of the cube. I take a photo of the cube and email it to Rubik's. And I saved my receipt. Nowhere in the rules does it explicitly say that the cube needs to be contorted to be finished. Though I knowingly went against the spirit of the competition, I technically didn't break the officially designated entry requirements. We're talking life changing money here. Not to mention the integrity of a popular company. How someone at 2K didn't immediately (A) aknowledge that their rules should be clearer BUT (B) at least include a fine print rule that expressly stated that they could disqualify ANY participant for ANY reason is repulsive. Note: To be fair, a fine print rule like this MAY exist. I'm not sure. If it does, try should use it. Heads should roll over this. People should be fired. It's irrelevant to me whether or not the rule forbade lineup switches. The point is that the participant in question knowingly made the adjustment, and the scoring system was broken enough to NOT factor in the actual lineups used. Under no circumstances should players using adjusted lineups be allowed to enter the final round UNLESS somehow their scores are recalculated. Wow...this story really has me riled up.

I'm completely in agreement with you (and others) on the end result. Beating the Red Sox with their line-up intact should score higher than one without their stars.

Let me throw out another hypothetical, one that actually grounded a little in reality. When I was a kid, Topps release "Gold Cards," which were premium cards with fancy embossing and extra glossiness. One year, each pack had a scratch off ticket. It was a picture of the field, with a scratch-off at each of the bases.

If I recall, the goal of the game was to find three matching symbols before your scratched off the one that was different. If you did, you won whatever prize was under another scratch off field. Pretty much like an instant lottery ticket.

Anyway, some kid on my bus found out that by holding a flashlight against the back of the card it became easy to see the differing symbol. Suddenly, everyone was winning the prizes (which I think were mostly free packs of cards).

Suppose a company ran a similar contest today, with higher stakes...say, $1,000,000. And, by accident, you find that holding the ticket up to light reveals the matching symbols. Would you do it?

I suppose an ethics professor would suggest that the morally correct thing to do would be to abstain from entering the contest, since you had discovered a loophole not covered in the rules. You aren't defacing the ticket or being fraudulent. You just stumbled upon a method for winning that was stupidly unforeseen by the company.

I would suggest that the majority of people would enter anyway.

Again, I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, and think that those players who tweaked line-ups should be ranked lower than those who didn't. But in the end, it comes down to 2K's screw up. I think when this much money is on the line, "spirit of the rules" becomes too vague to trust.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Happy29

If you're not cheating you're not trying. What I mean by this is there are loop-holes and grey areas in all competitions it is the responsibility of the competitor to find them and use them to their advantage.

My drill sergeant used to say thew same thing.....but he would add "If you get caught you ain't tryin hard enough."

People will always go for the lowest common denominator. Its human nature.

[Heroesandvillains]

Quote: Originally Posted by CPRoark

I'm completely in agreement with you (and others) on the end result. Beating the Red Sox with their line-up intact should score higher than one without their stars. Let me throw out another hypothetical, one that actually grounded a little in reality. When I was a kid, Topps release "Gold Cards," which were premium cards with fancy embossing and extra glossiness. One year, each pack had a scratch off ticket. It was a picture of the field, with a scratch-off at each of the bases. If I recall, the goal of the game was to find three matching symbols before your scratched off the one that was different. If you did, you won whatever prize was under another scratch off field. Pretty much like an instant lottery ticket. Anyway, some kid on my bus found out that by holding a flashlight against the back of the card it became easy to see the differing symbol. Suddenly, everyone was winning the prizes (which I think were mostly free packs of cards). Suppose a company ran a similar contest today, with higher stakes...say, $1,000,000. And, by accident, you find that holding the ticket up to light reveals the matching symbols. Would you do it? I suppose an ethics professor would suggest that the morally correct thing to do would be to abstain from entering the contest, since you had discovered a loophole not covered in the rules. You aren't defacing the ticket or being fraudulent. You just stumbled upon a method for winning that was stupidly unforeseen by the company. I would suggest that the majority of people would enter anyway. Again, I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, and think that those players who tweaked line-ups should be ranked lower than those who didn't. But in the end, it comes down to 2K's screw up. I think when this much money is on the line, "spirit of the rules" becomes too vague to trust.

This is a wonderful comparison; it virtually mirrors the situation at hand.

Ahhh...the mountainous 'what if's!!!!' I think it says a lot about my moral compass when I hesitate to predict my hypothetical actions when the prize changes from a free pack of cards to a $1,000,000 cash mattress.

And yes, if I ever won a cool million, night one I'd sleep on it. That was not an iTouch predicative dictionary typo. I meant mattress when I said it.

Though, when I really analyze this, I can't justify the flashlight trick being any different than knowing an ex-Topps employee, one that used to work in the printing section, TELLING me the patterns in which to scratch the lottery ticket in.

Or is it different? Perhaps maybe it is...

Ugh, I'll be hypothesizing all day long now about this, and what it would be like NOT to be broke in the process.

Thanks. Thanks a lot!!!!!

[Heroesandvillains]

Here's a question:

How do you think 2K would have reacted if one of the 8 finalists, after flying out to the event, held a press conference to announce he or she was stepping out of the competition until the scores were recalculated? On the grounds that they would feel cheated if they somehow managed to win, knowing deep down inside they weren't actually playing the "best of the best."

Do you think that kind of pressure/public ridicule would have forced 2K's hand into addressing this matter? You know, an actual finalist demanding a recount in a very public forum?

[fakeimmigrant]

If only this story got more traction on other sites, it might have resulted in 2K doing more or reacting accordingly.

[Sportsflibs]

20+ years of video game competition experience - that is how I know that only live events have integrity. It's frustrating to sit on the sidelines while companies like 2K Sports repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.

[Sportsflibs]

There's an element of this nobody has mentioned. There is no way to verify identity in an online tournament. When part of the prize is a trip, especially when that trip includes a shot at big money, people might play for other people.

ID's and passwords verify an account, not a person holding a controller.