Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Again totally my opinion but I don't think next gen hardware is the deciding factor. Sure it helps having better tech but.... You have to know how to program and integrate the things that will take console FB to the next level AND have to be able to make these changes. It's not always the developers but the bean counters who throw up the stop signs. If EA came out right now and said "Guys we are stripping everything and the 1st Madden on next gen will be a solid, smart football AI game that emulates what we see on TV each Sunday more than we ever seen in a FB game, but we can't have franchise etc.. the first year" I'd be tickled to death(if the game was actually a full on great AI football game) because from that point on we can then go to the "little things". Now with that said we've heard that they've had a head start on next gen for a good while so I'm cautiously optimistic that we will see a great next gen FB game. We all want the same things and hopefully one day we all get what we want.

If the game was just incredible on the field, I'd be happy with just an immersive season mode for the first year.

The Madden devs have to work different for the next gen. I think they have to work smarter, not harder, and not let things slide and sit. Authenticity has to be their focus always, and not the talk of authenticity they've done this gen, the walk of authenticity as well. We should be into deep into player individuality now instead of trying to get fundamentals in at the end of a generation. I really hope the words of Cam's next gen interview are backed up by a stellar debut.

[Skyboxer]

Yep if we ever get to the point of talking about real "the little things" I'll be very happy.

To me some of the "little things" would be:
Seeing trash blowing across the fields on real windy days
Players leaving for a play because a shoe came off or a chin strap broke
Illegal Substitutions
A player throwing up in the huddle lol
Torn jersey/pants
Kicker slipping during a kick (BTW we need a new kicking system and passing system..as OPTIONS to use)
Blood on the jersey/pants (Probably aren't allowed to do this for some BS reason or another)

on and on....

One day perhaps...

[SageInfinite]

I'd love for us to finally get dynamic weather. Start out cloudy, by the end of the first it's raining, down pour by half-time. Hell I'd actually like to be able to set the temp like in NCAA. SMH. IMO Madden for the past decade has never had alot of the "little" things.

[DorianDonP]

I hope EA reads all of these comments and are going into next gen KNOWING that this gameplay looks (and plays) poorly. They need to KNOW that what they are putting out in these trailers isn't good. My worry is that they actually do think what they are hyping in these trailers are okay. I understand they have to sell their game, good or bad, so for everyones sake I hope they really do realize how much of an overhaul everything needs.

This was the only animation I liked

Spoiler

But I worry that when that animation triggers, other defenders won't be able to come in and clean up the tackle.

Look how fast the runner turns a juke into a spinmove

Spoiler

and this guy's feet aren't even set before he's spinning and BREAKING A TACKLE at the same dang time.

Spoiler

crazy moves are possible but in real life they still require the runner to slow down and hesitate

Spoiler

This looks somewhat better (aside from the defenders looking like drunken idiots) with the hard and deliberate cut but the actual handoff doesn't have the same footwork detail. He gets the handoff from one angle and is heading in another direction magically.

Spoiler

Unlike something like this where even subtle change of direction requires more than one step.

Spoiler

The speed of the video made this look really bad but I'm not sure if it was speeded up or something.

Spoiler

The balance in this is just so off. The way he puts down his arm looks unnatural, like an animation thrown on just for the sake of it.

Spoiler

Aside from the foot planting and animations, the main problem to me with the running game is the lack of lateral movement. To much of the game is either zig zag or run straight ahead (now coupled with somewhat unrealistic combo moves). Low center of gravity/lateral movement isn't really represented which means the game doesn't capture the line of scrimmage running of many running plays.

Spoiler

Patient running like that is hard to duplicate in the games.

EA is going to show off their highlight reels of trucks, stiff arms, and spin moves, but I'd be much more impressed if they highlighted hitting holes with hard cuts and smaller jukes, instead of so much open field/to the outside stuff. In Madden/NCAA, you don't really have to make any cuts or jukes INTO the hole. I'm interested in seeing more gameplay of the speedburst thing to see how that affects those plays.

Spoiler

That's the bread and butter of the running game.

[m1ke_nyc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Yep if we ever get to the point of talking about real "the little things" I'll be very happy. To me some of the "little things" would be: Seeing trash blowing across the fields on real windy days Players leaving for a play because a shoe came off or a chin strap broke Illegal Substitutions A player throwing up in the huddle lol Torn jersey/pants Kicker slipping during a kick (BTW we need a new kicking system and passing system..as OPTIONS to use) Blood on the jersey/pants (Probably aren't allowed to do this for some BS reason or another) on and on.... One day perhaps...

That would be awesome, but that tells you how much work this game needs because I just cant see any of that in the near future. And im talking next 4-5 years. We need major overhauls to the entire movement system. O-line interactions need to be overhauled. Footplanting needs to work for everyplayer all the time not only on cuts. WR/DB interactions need to be added. Ball physics need to be added. I could go on and on then all these things need to be fine tuned to work good before we could even think about "the little things". And I didnt even mention the infinity engine needs a ton of work.

EDIT: EAs problem is they add something to the game but then they take something out. And what they add is always done half you know what lol Look at the footplanting, appears to only work for the ball carrier and only takes effect when he makes a hard cut.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by DorianDonP

I hope EA reads all of these comments and are going into next gen KNOWING that this gameplay looks (and plays) poorly. They need to KNOW that what they are putting out in these trailers isn't good. My worry is that they actually do think what they are hyping in these trailers are okay. I understand they have to sell their game, good or bad, so for everyones sake I hope they really do realize how much of an overhaul everything needs. This was the only animation I liked Spoiler But I worry that when that animation triggers, other defenders won't be able to come in and clean up the tackle. Look how fast the runner turns a juke into a spinmove Spoiler and this guy's feet aren't even set before he's spinning and BREAKING A TACKLE at the same dang time. Spoiler crazy moves are possible but in real life they still require the runner to slow down and hesitate Spoiler This looks somewhat better (aside from the defenders looking like drunken idiots) with the hard and deliberate cut but the actual handoff doesn't have the same footwork detail. He gets the handoff from one angle and is heading in another direction magically. Spoiler Unlike something like this where even subtle change of direction requires more than one step. Spoiler The speed of the video made this look really bad but I'm not sure if it was speeded up or something. Spoiler The balance in this is just so off. The way he puts down his arm looks unnatural, like an animation thrown on just for the sake of it. Spoiler Aside from the foot planting and animations, the main problem to me with the running game is the lack of lateral movement. To much of the game is either zig zag or run straight ahead (now coupled with somewhat unrealistic combo moves). Low center of gravity/lateral movement isn't really represented which means the game doesn't capture the line of scrimmage running of many running plays. Spoiler Patient running like that is hard to duplicate in the games. EA is going to show off their highlight reels of trucks, stiff arms, and spin moves, but I'd be much more impressed if they highlighted hitting holes with hard cuts and smaller jukes, instead of so much open field/to the outside stuff. In Madden/NCAA, you don't really have to make any cuts or jukes INTO the hole. I'm interested in seeing more gameplay of the speedburst thing to see how that affects those plays. Spoiler That's the bread and butter of the running game.

SICK POST!

[Big FN Deal]

@DorianP, excellent post and I think you are spot on about the lack of lateral movement, which also hampers the flow of the defense when blocked.

One of my questions for the new consoles is, are they still keeping the branching tech, which allows this max User control but sacrifices realistic fluid movement. If so, then I don't know how much better some of this movement stuff can be on the new consoles.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@DorianP, excellent post and I think you are spot on about the lack of lateral movement, which also hampers the flow of the defense when blocked. One of my questions for the new consoles is, are they still keeping the branching tech, which allows this max User control but sacrifices realistic fluid movement. If so, then I don't know how much better some of this movement stuff can be on the new consoles.

This is the key right here. If they don't invent some new tech, or just scrap this idea of max user control(which still isn't that much better imo), I'm out. Every player on the field needs longer animations so they transition into each other better. The problem Tiburon had was the offense had longer animations while the defense was lighting fast which made you feel like you were waiting and couldn't make moves. Balance is the key.