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BrianU · 09-01-2012, 10:04 PM

After experimenting with many sliders it became obvious to me that nothing will fix the AIs poor running ability in online/offline CCM. Even using sliders All Madden with 0 Human rush D and 100 CPU rushing they still struggle to put up 40 yards in a game as long as you pick competent plays. You dont even need to make tackles let your AI teamates stop them in their tracks. That is game breaking to me when the AI in Play Now is a world different, Its as if the CPU RB moves differently its crazy.

The Issue:
If you start a game in Play Now with the exact same teams, settings, difficulty and gameplay sliders then start a game in CCM with everything the same it plays radically different. There is no challenge in CCM games. The computer is unable to rush for more than 1-2 YPC in CCM as long as you call the appropriate play. You can sit back and let your CPU teamates defend for you the CPU rushing attack is going no where.

This even occurs if you set the difficulty to All-Madden, User sliders to 0 and CPU sliders to 100. It almost looks like the CPU RB moves differently. They do not use moves or run at holes. They cannot get past the LOS on outside runs. They make poor decisions all around when it comes to running the ball that prevent them from gaining more than 50 yards a game total as long as you are decent and play smart. The biggest flaw is how they run directly into players on the other team, like they have no awareness or vision. This causes them to gain 1-2 yards on most runs up the middle or negative yards on outside runs.

This does not ever happen in Play Now and is why they are able to put up 150+ rushing games. Play Now games have the best gameplay of any Madden this generation using the exact same settings. Players break off huge runs. Teams put up 150+ yards of rushing offense. The sliders and difficulty matter in Play Now and do not in CCM.

How to prove it:
Set your difficulty to All-Madden, Set User sliders all to 0 and CPU sliders all to 100 then go into a Play Now game. See how the computer moves and makes decisions.

Then go into an offline or online CCM, set difficulty to All-Madden and sliders to 0 User / 100 CPU. Watch as the CPU plays like a total idiot running into players, juking into defenders, holding the ball too long as QB and all the rest. It is not possible to change the AIs behavior through sliders to fix this. After thorough testing no one has come up with a solution. It is the AI Logic which can not be adjust in the settings or sliders only EA can help us.

Possible Explanations:
When playing CCM its blatantly obvious how the CPU RBs are unaware of all the other players on the field. It looks like their path-finding is messed up. They run directly into other players on both teams and do nothing to avoid being tackled. This is on All-Madden with 0 Human and 100 CPU sliders.

It also appears that the playcalling AI is different in CCM. As gameplans cant be used in CCM only in Play Now this compounds the issue althought the underlying issue that must be fixed is the running back AI decision making. Once you become decent at defensive play calling there is no challenge left and no point of playing CCM. It feels like All-Pro has much more variety and unpredictibility to the playcalling in CCM. On All-Madden the CPU handles every drive the same generic way, 1st down Run, 2nd down Run, 3rd down Pass so as long as you call a run blitz on 1st and 2nd down they gain 2 yards and its game over.

On All-Pro the computer has more life and calls run plays and pass plays in much different scenarios catching you off guard quite a bit like it should. They also seem to audible, send men in motion, and hot route more on All-Pro. In Play Now games All-Madden works great, something is broken in CCM.

Sliders appear to setup different in CCM. If you switch to All-Madden in CCM the sliders stay on 50. However if you do that in the Main Menu (Play Now) the sliders for User all go down to 25. After a week of trying various settings no one has been able to match the CCM gameplay to that of Play Now. These issues happen both Online and Offline CCM.

Examples:
Here are videos from Jarrod21 (Who had the toughest Madden 12 sliders last year) using the same slider settings and playing the same way in both Play Now and CCM.

-Play Now-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBrBZ5qOas

-CCM-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV7PKvGtjvM

Why it matters:
We all have different skill levels and that's the genius of sliders. Most gamers are perfectly fine with putting the game on All-Pro or Pro and just playing. I am not arguing to increase the difficulty and overwhelm anyone. Options are important, you should be able to play the game you want to play. If you wanna be challenged it should be possible the way things are that is not possible in CCM. There is a very low ceiling to the gameplay. Even if you are having good games right now in CCM and are having a hard time stopping the CPU you will eventually get better and learn what things work to stop them and once you do you will see how boring it is when every game results in the CPU back running for 40 yards no matter if its Fred Jackson, MJD, or Arian Foster.

I knew all about the no editing or fantasy draft in CCM and had no problems with that its understandable that the new CCM comes with some growing pains however I was not aware when I payed my $60 that the essence of the game would be stripped when playing CCM. I made this thread and am pushing for this because I love football. This is the only videogame I care to play. Like many others I would love to just play Madden all year round and not pick up another single game. This needs to be high priority and fixed or this game is meaningless to a lot of people.

Your options if nothing changes:
If you are a person that enjoys the CPU being a challenge and having every play count then your only option is to either 1. do Play Now games 2. Supersim the defense in CCM games as things currently stand 3. Try to fix the broken gameplay with broken sliders. I have tried all of the popular sliders and tried to integrate them into my own set to give the CPU the best running game I can. Heres my sliders: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...e-sliders.html

What we want:
We are asking that EA patch the game so that the ingame CPU AI is the exact same in CCM as it is in Play Now. Having the CPU rush the ball for more attempts will not fix it. I have focused on the CPU rushing attack in this post but other areas have problems in CCM that can't be fixed with sliders as well as such as the CPU QB holding the ball too long, and making poor decisions throwing into coverage. That is why a simple tweak here or there isn't going to fix things we need the same AI gameplay logic that Play Now has integrated into CCM any other solution is not a real solution.

There are some gamers who enjoy winning every game and there are some gamers who enjoy being challenged and having to focus every play every minute. There is no reason both parties can't be happy but with the way sliders work in CCM the latter group is very discouraged. I have more fun when I give up 200 yards rushing and need to come from behind to win or fight for every yard. That is currently not possible in CCM. I love playing defense, as a Jet fan I take pride when I stop the opponent marching down the field or hold them to a field goal. The only way to make CCM competitive is to Supersim the defense that is not acceptable.

No doubt Madden is going in the right direction as far as modes go. We need the same exact gameplay in CCM as we have in Play Now and this will be the greatest football game of all time till next year.

Obstacles:
EA is a company whose goal is not to make great football video games but is to make a profit. That is a cold hard fact and does not make them Good or Evil but is how things are. We could all still be playing with 2D sprites and 3 button controllers things do improve and will improve its just frustrating to see setbacks like this. I have seen huge threads on OS about the inability to Edit players in CCM and while I understand and respect those who want to see that I feel that this issue is more urgent and needs to be giving higher priority.

EA does not have unlimited resources. Despite what they have said we can probably expect 2 patches. I believe this needs to be fixed in a patch not a tuner update. It is our responsibility to get the word to them early and coherently. Spamming them on twitter or being negative will not get us to our goal. If you decide to reach out to EA please think before you speak and be empathetic.

Threads of reference:
Jarodd21s Madden 13 All-Madden sliders
Play Now vs CCM

Rdogg1026 · 09-01-2012, 10:16 PM

We're both Mets fans so we should be prone to letdowns by now.

BrianU · 09-01-2012, 10:23 PM

i'm a Jets fan too dude LOL misery loves company have a seat!

thekodinator · 09-01-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianU


	After experimenting with many sliders it became obvious to me that nothing will fix the AIs poor running ability in online/offline CCM. Even using sliders All Madden with 0 Human rush D and 100 CPU rushing they still struggle to put up 40 yards in a game as long as you pick competent plays. You dont even need to make tackles let your AI teamates stop them in their tracks. That is game breaking to me when the AI in Play Now is a world different, Its as if the CPU RB moves differently its crazy. I tweeted @EAMaddenNFL and they responded so Im hoping if others tweet them in a similar fashion they will get this info the the right people and we can save CCM this year! It went like this: @EAMaddenNFL Please send word to the devs that CCM slidersI are broken. Play Now with the same settings drasticly different gameplay they sent @Me Can you provide us with any more details? @EAMaddenNFL Yes TY for response! Its game breaking for many of us. OS community has found that sliders do not increase difficulty in CCM @EAMaddenNFL Even with the sliders at 0 for Human and 100 for CPU the CPU RBs barely break 40 yards per game in CCM. something is wrong @EAMaddenNFL This is based on box scores from many people. The game plays GREAT in Play Now. CCM even all madden plays like rookie @EAMaddenNFL Please view this thread if you need any proof Jarodd21s Madden 13 All-Madden sliders … from them to @Me Thanks for bringing this to our attention! @Me We appreciate the report! Thank you! If you have a twitter please tweet them now while they are still reading it if you care at all about Human vs CPU gameplay!

Join the twitter campaign everyone!!!

03MstGT290 · 09-01-2012, 10:30 PM

I just sent them a tweet.

Jarodd21 · 09-01-2012, 10:43 PM

I just sent my tweet off too.. There's no way I can enjoy the game untill CCM gets tuned the same as play now with the sliders..

micksharp · 09-01-2012, 10:48 PM

Tweet sent

The JareBear · 09-01-2012, 10:51 PM

I feel like this is an election campaign...

YES WE CAN......(get good gameplay in CCM mode)....

Seriously, get on these guys, I shouldn't have put everything to 100 for CPU and everything at 0 for user just to get a challenge

09-01-2012, 10:04 PM	#1
BrianU MVP OVR: 2 Join Date: Nov 2008	Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! After experimenting with many sliders it became obvious to me that nothing will fix the AIs poor running ability in online/offline CCM. Even using sliders All Madden with 0 Human rush D and 100 CPU rushing they still struggle to put up 40 yards in a game as long as you pick competent plays. You dont even need to make tackles let your AI teamates stop them in their tracks. That is game breaking to me when the AI in Play Now is a world different, Its as if the CPU RB moves differently its crazy. The Issue: If you start a game in Play Now with the exact same teams, settings, difficulty and gameplay sliders then start a game in CCM with everything the same it plays radically different. There is no challenge in CCM games. The computer is unable to rush for more than 1-2 YPC in CCM as long as you call the appropriate play. You can sit back and let your CPU teamates defend for you the CPU rushing attack is going no where. This even occurs if you set the difficulty to All-Madden, User sliders to 0 and CPU sliders to 100. It almost looks like the CPU RB moves differently. They do not use moves or run at holes. They cannot get past the LOS on outside runs. They make poor decisions all around when it comes to running the ball that prevent them from gaining more than 50 yards a game total as long as you are decent and play smart. The biggest flaw is how they run directly into players on the other team, like they have no awareness or vision. This causes them to gain 1-2 yards on most runs up the middle or negative yards on outside runs. This does not ever happen in Play Now and is why they are able to put up 150+ rushing games. Play Now games have the best gameplay of any Madden this generation using the exact same settings. Players break off huge runs. Teams put up 150+ yards of rushing offense. The sliders and difficulty matter in Play Now and do not in CCM. How to prove it: Set your difficulty to All-Madden, Set User sliders all to 0 and CPU sliders all to 100 then go into a Play Now game. See how the computer moves and makes decisions. Then go into an offline or online CCM, set difficulty to All-Madden and sliders to 0 User / 100 CPU. Watch as the CPU plays like a total idiot running into players, juking into defenders, holding the ball too long as QB and all the rest. It is not possible to change the AIs behavior through sliders to fix this. After thorough testing no one has come up with a solution. It is the AI Logic which can not be adjust in the settings or sliders only EA can help us. Possible Explanations: When playing CCM its blatantly obvious how the CPU RBs are unaware of all the other players on the field. It looks like their path-finding is messed up. They run directly into other players on both teams and do nothing to avoid being tackled. This is on All-Madden with 0 Human and 100 CPU sliders. It also appears that the playcalling AI is different in CCM. As gameplans cant be used in CCM only in Play Now this compounds the issue althought the underlying issue that must be fixed is the running back AI decision making. Once you become decent at defensive play calling there is no challenge left and no point of playing CCM. It feels like All-Pro has much more variety and unpredictibility to the playcalling in CCM. On All-Madden the CPU handles every drive the same generic way, 1st down Run, 2nd down Run, 3rd down Pass so as long as you call a run blitz on 1st and 2nd down they gain 2 yards and its game over. On All-Pro the computer has more life and calls run plays and pass plays in much different scenarios catching you off guard quite a bit like it should. They also seem to audible, send men in motion, and hot route more on All-Pro. In Play Now games All-Madden works great, something is broken in CCM. Sliders appear to setup different in CCM. If you switch to All-Madden in CCM the sliders stay on 50. However if you do that in the Main Menu (Play Now) the sliders for User all go down to 25. After a week of trying various settings no one has been able to match the CCM gameplay to that of Play Now. These issues happen both Online and Offline CCM. Examples: Here are videos from Jarrod21 (Who had the toughest Madden 12 sliders last year) using the same slider settings and playing the same way in both Play Now and CCM. -Play Now- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBrBZ5qOas -CCM- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV7PKvGtjvM Why it matters: We all have different skill levels and that's the genius of sliders. Most gamers are perfectly fine with putting the game on All-Pro or Pro and just playing. I am not arguing to increase the difficulty and overwhelm anyone. Options are important, you should be able to play the game you want to play. If you wanna be challenged it should be possible the way things are that is not possible in CCM. There is a very low ceiling to the gameplay. Even if you are having good games right now in CCM and are having a hard time stopping the CPU you will eventually get better and learn what things work to stop them and once you do you will see how boring it is when every game results in the CPU back running for 40 yards no matter if its Fred Jackson, MJD, or Arian Foster. I knew all about the no editing or fantasy draft in CCM and had no problems with that its understandable that the new CCM comes with some growing pains however I was not aware when I payed my $60 that the essence of the game would be stripped when playing CCM. I made this thread and am pushing for this because I love football. This is the only videogame I care to play. Like many others I would love to just play Madden all year round and not pick up another single game. This needs to be high priority and fixed or this game is meaningless to a lot of people. Your options if nothing changes: If you are a person that enjoys the CPU being a challenge and having every play count then your only option is to either 1. do Play Now games 2. Supersim the defense in CCM games as things currently stand 3. Try to fix the broken gameplay with broken sliders. I have tried all of the popular sliders and tried to integrate them into my own set to give the CPU the best running game I can. Heres my sliders: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...e-sliders.html What we want: We are asking that EA patch the game so that the ingame CPU AI is the exact same in CCM as it is in Play Now. Having the CPU rush the ball for more attempts will not fix it. I have focused on the CPU rushing attack in this post but other areas have problems in CCM that can't be fixed with sliders as well as such as the CPU QB holding the ball too long, and making poor decisions throwing into coverage. That is why a simple tweak here or there isn't going to fix things we need the same AI gameplay logic that Play Now has integrated into CCM any other solution is not a real solution. There are some gamers who enjoy winning every game and there are some gamers who enjoy being challenged and having to focus every play every minute. There is no reason both parties can't be happy but with the way sliders work in CCM the latter group is very discouraged. I have more fun when I give up 200 yards rushing and need to come from behind to win or fight for every yard. That is currently not possible in CCM. I love playing defense, as a Jet fan I take pride when I stop the opponent marching down the field or hold them to a field goal. The only way to make CCM competitive is to Supersim the defense that is not acceptable. No doubt Madden is going in the right direction as far as modes go. We need the same exact gameplay in CCM as we have in Play Now and this will be the greatest football game of all time till next year. Obstacles: EA is a company whose goal is not to make great football video games but is to make a profit. That is a cold hard fact and does not make them Good or Evil but is how things are. We could all still be playing with 2D sprites and 3 button controllers things do improve and will improve its just frustrating to see setbacks like this. I have seen huge threads on OS about the inability to Edit players in CCM and while I understand and respect those who want to see that I feel that this issue is more urgent and needs to be giving higher priority. EA does not have unlimited resources. Despite what they have said we can probably expect 2 patches. I believe this needs to be fixed in a patch not a tuner update. It is our responsibility to get the word to them early and coherently. Spamming them on twitter or being negative will not get us to our goal. If you decide to reach out to EA please think before you speak and be empathetic. Threads of reference: Jarodd21s Madden 13 All-Madden sliders Play Now vs CCM Exogenesis33, Batum Shaka Laka, chunt04 and 36 others like this. Last edited by BrianU; 09-07-2012 at 04:22 PM.

09-01-2012, 10:16 PM	#2
Rdogg1026 Banned OVR: 8 Join Date: Apr 2008	Re: Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! We're both Mets fans so we should be prone to letdowns by now. TreFacTor, w1ta5 and oakevin like this.

09-01-2012, 10:23 PM	#3
BrianU MVP OVR: 2 Join Date: Nov 2008	Re: Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! i'm a Jets fan too dude LOL misery loves company have a seat! TreFacTor likes this.

09-01-2012, 10:30 PM	#5
03MstGT290 Rookie OVR: 7 Join Date: Mar 2005	Re: Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! I just sent them a tweet.

09-01-2012, 10:43 PM	#6
Jarodd21 Hall Of Fame OVR: 42 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 10,569	Re: Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! I just sent my tweet off too.. There's no way I can enjoy the game untill CCM gets tuned the same as play now with the sliders.. Johnny "Too Tall", LA NOIR, I3RIS3H and 3 others like this. __________________ https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html PSN: Jarodd21

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09-01-2012, 10:48 PM	#7
micksharp Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Northern Utah	Re: Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! Tweet sent jaredlib likes this.

09-01-2012, 10:51 PM	#8
The JareBear Be Good To One Another OVR: 49 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 11,574 Blog Entries: 17	Re: Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention! I feel like this is an election campaign... YES WE CAN......(get good gameplay in CCM mode).... Seriously, get on these guys, I shouldn't have put everything to 100 for CPU and everything at 0 for user just to get a challenge __________________ "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others." OS Blog The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

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Get CCM AI Fixed NOW while we have EAs attention!