The EA football perception??

[TheGedon]

If you don't agree cool....
"Objectively" talking here no BIAS

Madden 12 have improved not opinion just facts. I mean the game does feel different and play different. There is a dynamic to the cpu play this year that many will enjoy and get highly aggravated by. The animation quality have gotten better (still needs to evolve the running animation its still god awful lol) But the game has progressed.

Still MANY educated and objective gamers are still like "Madden SUCKS, Its God awful, its not SIM, anybody can play it, its a game for noobs" stuff like that. I feel as though EA can't do anything to fix this.... OR CAN THEY.

Well the only thing I can think of is if EA wants to win the gamers and sim gamers over then EA needs to do something to wow them. EA can add some NEW tech into Madden 13... Think about it Madden 12 although very much improved, the gameplay is still outdated... Thats just facts! Yes you have new shaders and lighting effect but what does that get you in the gameplay department??? NOTHING...

YES there is a new AI system. The problem is really its not NEW it's just evolved. It's the same style AI that has been in Madden for YEARS... The style of AI speak of is a governing AI. You have ONE AI governing body that controls everything (this is why the game seems to feel and look scripted at times...) And then you have their MoCap animations.... I'm not really gonna get into it but there is still something left to be desired in the game's animations, even though they've been improved...

What EA should do is use a NEW physics engine. I don't care what it is but it must calculate ALL collisions at ALL times why because its FOOTBALL. ALSO IT MUST CALCULATE OR FACTOR IN THE WEIGHT OF PLAYERS AND COMBINED WEIGHT why??? BECAUSE its FOOTBALL!!!! A better or new animation system that can produce highly detailed animations. Something about the animation system and the animations seem not to be on par with MLB the show, NBA 2k11, or EVEN FIFA 12. Hell the cut scene animations are better than the
in-game animations.

THE Governing AI needs to be DELETED SCRAPPED FORGOTTEN ABOUT LOL. All players should have there own AI. It can be done! If a game like BackBreaker can do it.. So can Madden!

Probably the most important thing is for EA is just to focus on FOOTBALL forget about all the flash and focus on the GRIT! Football is such strategic sport, yet not a lot of strategy is in Madden... So many of FOOTBALL's beautiful fundamentals are just left out ON PURPOSE...

If EA had choose to do this 3 or 4 years ago then no one would talk bad about madden or maybe they would but NOT have VALID reasons to back up their points.

All these factors mean something. You have half of the gaming population that don't like madden or even respect it... Then you have the fans that buy the game year to year despite the FACTS that I pointed out and if EA would focus on their craft Madden would SALE double!! Instead of 2.5 million copy's sold it would sale double or triple (maybe).

I mean it is the only NFL game on the market.. lol

[TNT713]

EA can do whatever they want to the game - they can't do a thing about the people who play it. And that's the real issue... the people who play. On one side you have people who take responsibility for the decisions they make on the field, on the other you have people who blame EA for everything that happens.

The way I see it... I call the personnel, formation, assignments, pre-snap adjustments, and execute the play. If I do this well, I want the credit for being a good Madden player. If I don't do this well, I can blame EA even though they had little to do with my on-field decisions other than making them possible.

Then there are the guys that will do whatever the game allows regardless of whether it's 'football' or not as long as it works. On the flip side of that same coin you have players who think everything that works, can't be real football.

Furthermore, there are players who give basic football fundamentals really stupid names. Then there's the guys that think anything given a stupid name is no longer a viable football strategy.

Then you have guys that have watched football for years, and consider themselves experts on the game even though they have little exposure or knowledge about WHY the techniques and tactics they see as real football work in Madden.

Indeed... Madden would be a much better game if not for the people that play it.

Later

[TheGedon]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

EA can do whatever they want to the game - they can't do a thing about the people who play it. And that's the real issue... the people who play. On one side you have people who take responsibility for the decisions they make on the field, on the other you have people who blame EA for everything that happens. The way I see it... I call the personnel, formation, assignments, pre-snap adjustments, and execute the play. If I do this well, I want the credit for being a good Madden player. If I don't do this well, I can blame EA even though they had little to do with my on-field decisions other than making them possible. Then there are the guys that will do whatever the game allows regardless of whether it's 'football' or not as long as it works. On the flip side of that same coin you have players who think everything that works, can't be real football. Furthermore, there are players who give basic football fundamentals really stupid names. Then there's the guys that think anything given a stupid name is no longer a viable football strategy. Then you have guys that have watched football for years, and consider themselves experts on the game even though they have little exposure or knowledge about WHY the techniques and tactics they see as real football work in Madden. Indeed... Madden would be a much better game if not for the people that play it. Later

Good points!! But then I look at NBA 2k 12 its one game the only NBA game and they still improve it regardless of who buys it. Visual Concepts rather preserve the honor or essence of basketball no matter the competition or lack there of or whom ever buys the game! But You are super correct if causal gamers was more aware of what they buy then the sales would drop and force EA to create something way more compelling and tech savvy...

Great Post!

[roadman]

You are preaching to the choir, TheGedon, or The Geddon, or Geddon.

[TheGedon]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

You are preaching to the choir, TheGedon, or The Geddon, or Geddon.

Who is that I don't know who they are......???
But thanks!

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheGedon

If you don't agree cool.... "Objectively" talking here no BIAS Still MANY educated and objective gamers are still like "Madden SUCKS, Its God awful, its not SIM, anybody can play it, its a game for noobs" stuff like that. I feel as though EA can't do anything to fix this.... OR CAN THEY.

The problem isn't whether Madden is for "noobs," because they need to appeal to the casual market, which is their major market. It's whether or not they can also appeal to the "sim" market. (The answer is yes, they can).

Quote:

Well the only thing I can think of is if EA wants to win the gamers and sim gamers over then EA needs to do something to wow them. EA can add some NEW tech into Madden 13... Think about it Madden 12 although very much improved, the gameplay is still outdated... Thats just facts! Yes you have new shaders and lighting effect but what does that get you in the gameplay department??? NOTHING...

New tackling system, DPP, traits and roles. Better kicking meter too.

Quote:

YES there is a new AI system.... (edited) What EA should do is use a NEW physics engine.....(edited)

You're more likely to see an evolution of the current systems. The new tackling is evidence that the current system can be developed into a respectable platform.

Quote:

Probably the most important thing is for EA is just to focus on FOOTBALL forget about all the flash and focus on the GRIT! Football is such strategic sport, yet not a lot of strategy is in Madden... So many of FOOTBALL's beautiful fundamentals are just left out ON PURPOSE...

One thing that MANY here at OS complain about is presentation. It's such a hot topic, year-in and year-out. EA is finally beginning to deliver on this front because the past few iterations have spent time fixing the utter broken mess that was Madden 09.

Quote:

If EA had choose to do this 3 or 4 years ago then no one would talk bad about madden or maybe they would but NOT have VALID reasons to back up their points.

Madden 09 to Madden 10. They fixed so many things that were fundamentally wrong with the series.

Quote:

All these factors mean something. You have half of the gaming population that don't like madden or even respect it... Then you have the fans that buy the game year to year despite the FACTS that I pointed out and if EA would focus on their craft Madden would SALE double!! Instead of 2.5 million copy's sold it would sale double or triple (maybe). I mean it is the only NFL game on the market.. lol

You failed to consider the casual gamer who buys Madden year to year simply because they're not looking for the issues that are discovered here. They simply play the game, and the general ideas of football are represented to them enough that the game satisfies them. Also, I'm amused that your closing argument was capped off with a "maybe."

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

the people who play. On one side you have people who take responsibility for the decisions they make on the field, on the other you have people who blame EA for everything that happens.

And, a third, you have those that don't want improvements to the game, don't want a better, smarter CPU AI, and call those that do want it, "blame EA for everything".

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

The way I see it... I call the personnel, formation, assignments, pre-snap adjustments, and execute the play. If I do this well, I want the credit for being a good Madden player. If I don't do this well, I can blame EA even though they had little to do with my on-field decisions other than making them possible.

But you don't make your opponents on field calls and adjustments. And EA/TIB does have some control over that. In fact, they have total control over the CPU AI calls and adjustments, and how the players react. I said TOTAL CONTROL. So EA/TIB is responsible for personnel, formation, assignments, pre-snap adjustments, and player execution.

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Indeed... Madden would be a much better game if not for the people that play it.

Madden would be a much better game if the CPU controlled players, for both the CPU and Human teams, had a much smarter AI, and all player attributes were represented more accurately. It would also be much better if off the field was replicated more realistically, like CPU free agent, trade, draft logic. I could go on.

Madden could be a much better game irregardless of the people that play it.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

EA can do whatever they want to the game - they can't do a thing about the people who play it. And that's the real issue... the people who play. On one side you have people who take responsibility for the decisions they make on the field, on the other you have people who blame EA for everything that happens. The way I see it... I call the personnel, formation, assignments, pre-snap adjustments, and execute the play. If I do this well, I want the credit for being a good Madden player. If I don't do this well, I can blame EA even though they had little to do with my on-field decisions other than making them possible. Then there are the guys that will do whatever the game allows regardless of whether it's 'football' or not as long as it works. On the flip side of that same coin you have players who think everything that works, can't be real football. Furthermore, there are players who give basic football fundamentals really stupid names. Then there's the guys that think anything given a stupid name is no longer a viable football strategy. Then you have guys that have watched football for years, and consider themselves experts on the game even though they have little exposure or knowledge about WHY the techniques and tactics they see as real football work in Madden. Indeed... Madden would be a much better game if not for the people that play it. Later

while there is some truth to this, there are many of us that DO understand football and do not fall into this category. To me, it's not just about winning the game. For example, I played a guy in an online franchise game last season and won the game 34-7. It wasn't a fun game at all. He used the Titans and he would drop back with Vince Young about 25 yards, roll out to the right, then throw deep. If he didn't throw it deep he'd put Chris Johnson in as a WR and run go routes with him. While that's fine, watching Vince Young out run every player on my defense as he runs backwards is just ridiculous. It's also ridiculous that he can throw it 60 yards on a rope across his body while running in the opposite direction. Yes, I was able to stop it, but it's not very much fun for me to play in a game like that. What would be nice is if actual physical feats could be realistic and built into the game. A real human can't make a 65 yard pass on a rope throwing across his body while running full speed in the opposite direction of the throw. This is one of the reasons why I feel long time Madden players hated 2k football. You couldn't do these things, and it affects their ability to pull out their "wild card" tactics in order to win. That has nothing to do with calling a better game. The less super-human, unrealistic abilities that the players on the field are able to do, the more the emphasis falls on utilizing realistic football strategy.