Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

[jerryrice4949]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing? EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price. The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits. I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen: 1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG. 2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact. 3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months. 4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy. These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode. A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS. If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others. Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up. Later

Congratulations on being ridiculous. It is true I have not bought madden in several years after buying it every year since its inception.

But the idea I should buy a game I think is sorely lacking in hopes that they will improve online franchise is silly. I can't play what EA refers to online franchise because I find online leagues boring and that really is what their "online franchise" is. It is a multi season league nothing more. I enjoy the part will you build a franchise through the draft and free agency, etc...

[vert56]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing? EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price. The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits. I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen: 1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG. 2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact. 3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months. 4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy. These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode. A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS. If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others. Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up. Later

So people should go pay $60, play a mode that they do not enjoy over and over again because it is their "duty" and "obligation" as responsible consumers??????

wow! they've got you by the short-hairs my friend.

good luck in life......

[vert56]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveDQ

This is all so silly. You don't have answer with all these words. The bottom line is the online franchise mode did not generate as much interest as anticipated so it was neglected for something they brainstormed and hope (as they did with OF) will attract interest. And when it does attract interest, EA will find ways to charge for specific features. Want an additional 1000 members in your community? That'll be 4.99 for our Madden Communities Pro Pak. This is EA's MO.

you're simply not getting it.

allow me to clarify:

1)the mode does not exist

2)therefore, saying that they neglected the mode (that, as previously stated, does not actually exist) based on the low number of people playing is completely invalid and an insult to the intelligence of consumers

key question: how can you claim to come to a decision on an issue based on numbers that are completely irrelevant to that issue?

I think we AS THE CONSUMERS need to change our approach.

From now on we should stop saying "please update online franchise!"
and start saying "please put online franchise in the game for real and stop feeding us crap cause it tastes really bad and confuses our friends."

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

What would you like me to call Anthony on here? He's not the one that made the sole decision to not update Franchise mode. My analysis after is not really hard hitting or really combative in nature in this case either. They know they are/will take heat for not updating Franchise mode. And this isn't me being defensive here either, by all means tell me what you think you would want to see more out of with certain interviews?

I'd personally like to see OS interviewers press the EA folks on some of the shaky arguments like the one quoted in the third and final paragraph of the interview posted at the head of this thread.

The statement that Communities meets the basic needs of OF players without the hassle certainly deserves some followup questions for clarification, as well as a counterpoint that there are lots of other things folks want from the OF that Communities can't provide (like GM stuff).

The statement that OTP received more interest last year than OF strikes me as deserving some followup questions about the hard numbers there and how they were generated.

Since you represent a community that includes a fair number of OF enthusiasts, you might also have questioned the choice to do Communities over OF. Your particular hardcore sim community cares about the OF feature, so why not let the interviewee feel that a bit?

It's fair to note that this guy can't be the only one on the hook for the decisions made in the last cycle, but he is in the chair representing the company and the studio that's giving us this product.

If you did press some of these issues and I'm just not able to find the full blog where you do that, then disregard this.

[DaveDQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by vert56

you're simply not getting it. allow me to clarify: 1)the mode does not exist 2)therefore, saying that they neglected the mode (that, as previously stated, does not actually exist) based on the low number of people playing is completely invalid and an insult to the intelligence of consumers key question: how can you claim to come to a decision on an issue based on numbers that are completely irrelevant to that issue? I think we AS THE CONSUMERS need to change our approach. From now on we should stop saying "please update online franchise!" and start saying "please put online franchise in the game for real and stop feeding us crap cause it tastes really bad and confuses our friends."

Are you saying Online Franchise was so poorly done that you don't even consider it in the game? Not sure what you are saying there. It was implemented with some effeciency and appeal in M10, but they left it there like almost every other peripheral to gameplay this generation.

A comparison would be the Weapons system. I thought it was a waste, and while I don't think OF is a waste, they treated it the same way. They took it and hid it in the menus now it's all but gone.

[TNT713]

First, lets establish that the comments I have posted previously in this post are NOT going to be popular with the mainstream OS Franchise fans. Some may hold my personal preference toward online ranked games against me, but I'm in no way attempting to be the villain or to subvert Online Franchise in any way...

BUT[queue Danger Music]

Far too often, we think of Madden as fans who are incapable of releasing our attachments to look at the decisions of company that makes the Madden product in a logical manner. Speaking for myself, Online fans get upset when Offline franchise gets developer attention. Not because Offline Franchise doesn't need attention (it probably could improve), but because my favorite mode didn't benefit from the man hours that Offline Franchise benefited from.

We tend to forget, overlook, or not consider the fact that EA is a business entity with the same exact concerns of any other business entity. Every year, they must decide how to leverage their resources with limited budgets and resources to satisfy both consumers and stockholders. By and large, EA's most vocal critics seem to overlook the challenges that EA must overcome to deliver a game that 5 million people with diverse interests will enjoy.

To illustrate the business challenge, I'd like to offer yet another hypothetical scenario to illustrate the need of fans of the mode (or the promise of the mode) to play it frequently despite it's shortcomings:

Quote:

Given 4 brick and mortar stores on a given corner competing for the same audience. Each of these stores is named for a specific Madden mode. Offline Franchise Online Play Offline Play Now Online Franchise (also includes Virtual Trainer and Superstar) 97% of the shoppers go to Offline Play Now, Offline Franchise, and Online Play. The remaining 3% visit the Online Franchise store... It stands to reason that the stores getting the 97% of the shoppers are likely to be cleaner, have more variety in the aisles, and will have the ability to provide better goods and services. It also stands to reason that the store that attracts 3% of the shoppers will struggle and eventually be replaced with another store. In the real world, it's easy to recognize the truth of business... Shops that don't draw customers disappear. Yet, seemingly intelligent people opt to ignore the obvious business aspects... So simply put... The Online Franchise store is failing because the people who want to shop there are spending their dollars somewhere else instead. Whether it's because the store isn't clean, they don't carry the right brands, or the sign isn't pretty is irrelevant. The bottom line is that 3% of the shoppers aren't enough for the shop to survive on this corner. The most common reply to this is that the NCAA Online Dynasty is popular... But NCAA 'shops' are on another corner miles away from the Madden corner. Only 10% of the people who shop in the NCAA corner also shop in the Madden corner (that includes the players that trade NCAA as soon as Madden releases). In other words, 90% of the people who shop on either corner shop only NCAA OR MADDEN - NEVER BOTH. Hence, suggesting that NCAA's online dynasty and Madden's Online Franchise appeal to the same people is less than accurate. The game's themselves don't appeal to the same people. So... By nature of comparing apples the apples, the NCAA Online Dynasty argument is and always has been irrelevant. So, if we limit the discussion to the stores on the Madden corner, we'll see that for every Madden player that shops at the Online Franchise, approximately 33 shop at one of the other stores on the same corner. With those numbers, the store may be out of business soon unless they draw more shoppers.

That said, I've drawn some ire for suggesting that players who want Online Franchise to improve should actually play it regardless of it's shortcomings. Why? Because if you want a store to survive, you must shop there or it may disappear.

Remember, the people who shop at the Online Franchise, Online Play, and Offline Play Now stores all have issues with their chosen stores - but they shop there anyway, offer usable feedback, and their modes are improved.

The way I see it, guys who don't buy Madden because the Online Franchise hasn't been all they wanted are misusing their power and influence in the most counter-productive way. Not only are their vocal complaints diminishing the value of the mode to those who also want it improved, but it's a smack in the face to players who suck it up and play the mode because of where it could go...

What's EA to do? If they sink 20% of it's resources into the store with a mere 3% of its patrons and see 2% jump in patronage it will still be a business failure. If EA reflects the usage of the mode in it's allowment of resources, Online Franchise would only get 3% of the dev team which wouldn't be enough to create any improvements...

In all seriousness, OS contains the largest compliment of Madden Online Franchise fans anywhere. Dare I say of the 3% that play Online Franchise, I'd guess more than 50% of the ones that visit online websites are here... The concentration in this community seems to skew the argument here - but ONLY HERE. Nowhere else does this discussion merit more than one page of forum posts.

SO again... I implore fans of the mode to PLAY IT. If you're a fan of the idea, but haven't purchased Madden or find other reasons not to play Online Franchise, you are the reason the numbers are low AND why development is slow.

BLAME THYSELF.

Later

[jerryrice4949]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveDQ

Are you saying Online Franchise was so poorly done that you don't even consider it in the game? Not sure what you are saying there. It was implemented with some effeciency and appeal in M10, but they left it there like almost every other peripheral to gameplay this generation. A comparison would be the Weapons system. I thought it was a waste, and while I don't think OF is a waste, they treated it the same way. They took it and hid it in the menus now it's all but gone.

The answer is yes. There was no online franchise, EVER. To be considered a franchise mode there needs to be a yearly rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap etc... A franchise is where you constantly build and rebuild your team year to year.

What EA called an online Franchise was really a multi season league.

Would you consider NCAA football to have a online dynasty if recruiting was not included? Of course not, because recruiting is part of establishing a dynasty. Just like the rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap are part of a franchise mode.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by jerryrice4949

Since you asked. I would like someone to challenge EA next time they mention "the numbers" when it comes to online franchise. Well of course the numbers suck it was a completely unfinished feature/mode. It is not bare bones it is completely incomplete; what does EA expect the numbers to look like. That would be like NCAA calling something online dynasty without recruiting. I would like someone to ask them if they think the low utilization to what they call online Franchise is because it is really not a franchise mode at all! I think the designer from EA missed the whole point of online franchise. It is more than a couple of friends getting together. It is about getting together with people you know and or like and building a team year after year. It is about a whole new level of immersion. It is the whole point of a franchise mode whether online or offline. Every time I hear about the numbers I want to scream. Make an actual online franchise and then lets see what the numbers are.

Okay, fair enough question.

Quote: Originally Posted by Icarus2k9

Sorry sir, reread your stuff after getting a good night's sleep. You're right, there's not much to really go after them for in this case, my apologies. Just for my own information though, do you get to have a proper dialogue when you're interviewing? Follow up questions and things like that? Or is it all submitted questions via email or another medium? I think the only question I'd have followed up with here (and I think it's one of the most important questions at the moment because it dictates all their decisions by the looks of things) is for EA to give us the actual numbers of users for these modes and a proper breakdown - how many quit after one game, etc. I'm fed up of being told blanket statements like "everyone plays online ranked" (no they don't) when I want to see the numbers and judge for myself whether their belief that something isn't worth it is justified.

Some interviews are by text, but this one was my phone. So basically some allow follow-up questions and others do not -- yes, just depends on the medium.

Seems like a fair enough question. I know that generally speaking they don't want to or will give specifics on that type of stuff, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

But just to be clear, the interview was about Online Communities, so I just didn't want to use that as a platform to "jump" a developer about online franchise stuff. So I more tacked on a question at the end to at least get a word about it.