Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

[Scottdau]

Quote: Originally Posted by nabootheenigma

I used to see it now I can't see any thumbs EDIT: I CAN SEE THEM NOW LOL OS 2.0 DEFAULT CAN SEE THEM OS SCI FI U CANT

Hm that is weird I can see it. But I am on my iPhone. So maybe it is difference.

[Rocky]

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well.

Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years.

To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span.

Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it).

In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden.

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.?

I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well. Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years. To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span. Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it). In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden. Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.? I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

Good post.

[PVarck31]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well. Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years. To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span. Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it). In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden. Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.? I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

This is constructive criticism.

[shyvoodoo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well. Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years. To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span. Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it). In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden. Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.? I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

Fantastic Post Rock. I agree with the same things in this post and I just thought Ian and company wanted to make the best football "party game" and catered too much to the casuals and the Online community.

On top of that though, this one paragraph epitomizes what made me so upset with this team:

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.

I could not for the life of me understand that with these supercomputers we have, we still have only 4 camera angles to choose from. Racing games got more camera angles than this, FPS games got more camera angles. We should have had TV style presentation years ago, we had it last gen but not now??

Pre, Post and Halftime shows are basically STILL not in the game.. That "game" that some says is the greatest football game ever, had all this and it just makes me upset to go to you tube and look at that video of this games halftime show and it makes you want to scream at these guys WAKE UP!!. That "game" even had a weekly wrap up show!! A weekly wrap up... Only ONE OTHER GAME has gone the length to add this and these games were made by the same company...

The "wait until next year" thing was in my opinion saying to gamers "What we want to do with this game matters MORE to us than what you want to have in this game". After '09, somebody on that team should have booted up a copy of Madden ps2, COMPLETELY dissected those games and said "OK lets start with these features FIRST".
On top of that, NBA 2k11 pretty much blew that excuse out the water and the "suits" could not lean on that excuse anymore when it comes to their philosophy of "Well if we re add features a little bit at a time then people will think its a "new" game". Not thinking that most gamers KEEP their old games so shame on them.

Honestly, I love the new direction, I haven't been excited about playing a Madden like this in years and the first time in almost 10 that I plan on buying both football games. Heck, I havent bought a FIFA game since the genesis days and I'm planning on buying FIFA 12 this year! So I like the new direction EA Sports is going. The games should be more geared to the TV style presentation because its much more enjoyable and thats how we all REALISTICALLY enjoy our sports. Theres no way you can experience sports games "on the field" through a x" TV screen. Some gamers are gonna cry about this but I say if you want that then have your brother or girlfriend punch and kick you when the hits occur in the game..a vibrating controller ain't the same.. sorry..

Ian will always be a cool dude just because of the pains he went through to add the Broadcast cam for me and the boys of the BBC. I will remember him for that.

Thats my 2c's

ben
voodoo

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan

What didn't you like about last year's direction, Pared? I'm loving that bit by bit we seem to be headed toward Madden becoming a better game. I'll say that I don't like the pace of things in regards to improvements and it would be nice for a single focus year to year, as opposed to "well that didn't fly, back to the drawing board..." But, as I stated beofre, we still have AJ, and it seems that Cam is big on community feedback. It might not be as cozy as beofre with the higher-ranking folk, (sorry AJ, you aren't chopped liver, just not a department head ) but we still have access. I did bring up Fifa, as well as 2k Sports. The EA Canada team doesn't interact at the grass roots level that Ian and Phil did, but they do hear us through feedback. I just feel that "different is not deficient." It's just a different way than before, a bit more traditional. I'm gonna miss the virtual rubbing elbows with "greatness," sure. But I'm not convinced, that in the long run, that it won't actually end up better. We're on the map now, just because our direct line to the inner sanctum of Tiburon brass is severed, it doesn't mean we won't get heard. We just might not get the one on one feedback that we're accustomed to. Once again, after all of the problems that came with, maybe not such a bad thing.....

The lack of focus on areas they improved upon in '10 from '09 - gameplay, presentation and polish.

I will NEVER consider community interaction a bad thing. The community may not know how to express their thoughts but through discussion and conversation will we see some great ideas flourish.

As long as the discourse is constructive we, the gamer, always wins. And believe it or not, the developers win in turn as well.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

The lack of focus on areas they improved upon in '10 from '09 - gameplay, presentation and polish.

Please add offline and online franchise.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

I will NEVER consider community interaction a bad thing. The community may not know how to express their thoughts but through discussion and conversation will we see some great ideas flourish.

If the developer is listening, then community interaction is an absolutely wonderful thing. I've seen games sites that have modders (where game developers encourage modding, even provide tools to the community for modding) who come up with such wonderful mods that the game developers actually include user community created mods in an official DLC. You can't beat that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

As long as the discourse is constructive we, the gamer, always wins. And believe it or not, the developers win in turn as well.

Absolutely true. And the community should encourage and not discourage the constructive comments.

I think part of the problem is there are many fans of EA/Madden that won't allow any criticism. I've never owned NFL2K (they never made it for PC and I didn't have a console until last year, got one just for Red Dead Redemption), and don't have a great love for NFL2K (cause I've never had it). But I really wish it was still around just to have a choice. I'm also not a blind EA/Madden lover. I just want an NFL Football Video Game that has the quality it should have in this day and age. I really don't care who that developer is, it could be EA, it could be somebody else. I'd like to encourage the constructive criticism just so we don't have to settle for sub par, or even worse, nothing at all. Heck, I even bought Backbreaker, just to encourage those guys to continue. So far, not so good.

[PaperBoyx703]

Best wishes to da phily cheeze