Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I was about to say the same thing. You could've replaced Ian's name in many places in the interview and it wouldn't have changed a thing ("Cam/Ian gets it" "Cam/Ian wants to make a sim game for football fans"). I can see the "suits won't let him do what he wants" excuse easily rearing it's head. The one thing I thought was interesting is where he said he feels they "significantly moved the needle" when it comes to gameplay in this year's game. He should be held to it. Instead of everyone making excuses for the series as they have year after year after year. At this point there's just no excuse whatsoever for the game to lag behind older/less advantaged games. They're so old that at this point they can't even be used as a barometer as to where Madden needs to be. Until people come into these games w/expectations instead of having none so they can be "pleasantly surprised" by modest improvements, Madden/NCAA will lag behind the great sports games of this generation imo.

"significantly moved" is, of course, a relative perspective for multiple reasons. Lets not be coy and dance around the issue. For people who feel as is 2K's gameplay/A.I. was/is vastly superior to Madden's the movement may not be significant in their eyes.

Ian often got caught up in a verbal battle of trying to "shut people up about 2K forever", or something to that effect. That was a losing battle for many reasons, not the least of which is, its really tough to defeat a game that was turned into a martyr and/or ghost.

Cam is probably just focusing on Madden's improvement vs. itself, so within that context he may be 100% justified in making the statements he has made. Taking this tact will satiate the vast majority of football gamers. The strongest 2K advocates may not find those efforts to be good enough, but I don't think he's going to concern himself with that segment of the gaming public.

Given what we've seen the last 5-7 years or so, reduced expectations is actually the logical position to take if you have to play a new football game every year. Most football gamers are just being honest with themselves. They are going to break down and buy the new version every year, so they aren't really in a position to demand a superior product, or else. So modest improvements are celebrated wildly, because for them, there is no other recourse.

[KBLover]

I'm hopeful.

I didn't get Madden 11 (and sounds like a good choice as I'd be more frustrated with it from what I've read - especially defensively), but am planning - as of now - to give M12 a shot.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I was about to say the same thing. You could've replaced Ian's name in many places in the interview and it wouldn't have changed a thing ("Cam/Ian gets it" "Cam/Ian wants to make a sim game for football fans"). I can see the "suits won't let him do what he wants" excuse easily rearing it's head. The one thing I thought was interesting is where he said he feels they "significantly moved the needle" when it comes to gameplay in this year's game. He should be held to it. Instead of everyone making excuses for the series as they have year after year after year. At this point there's just no excuse whatsoever for the game to lag behind older/less advantaged games. They're so old that at this point they can't even be used as a barometer as to where Madden needs to be. Until people come into these games w/expectations instead of having none so they can be "pleasantly surprised" by modest improvements, Madden/NCAA will lag behind the great sports games of this generation imo.

Before crucifying the new kid on the block or EA, why don't we sit back and wait a week before the info starts pouring out. Yes, I know that is another saying around here, but if the second video I saw in NCAA regarding tackling is any indication where Madden is going, I'm favorably impressed. Also, let's remember the track record of this person. FIFA and Fight Night are pretty good games to put on your resume. Also, Ian's title and the new kid on the blocks title is much different, almost like night and day. You can't even come close to comparing the two.

Maybe this year we can be "pleasantly surprised" by Ian's last Madden.

[Armor and Sword]

I really want this game to be great. I really do.

As I said I am keeping expectations very low. Because after Madden 2010 I had them sky high for Madden 2011. Bought 2011 on release day after really feeling and seeing a huge upgrade in Madden 2010 (my first next gen Madden).

If the core gameplay is tuned to make it a true sim that would actually be a huge reason to buy it alone. Couple that with a return to a deeper feature rich offline Franchise mode and we will have a winner like NCAA 2011 was.

Come on EA....I know you can do it. You have before (Madden 99, 2005).

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

"significantly moved" is, of course, a relative perspective for multiple reasons. Lets not be coy and dance around the issue. For people who feel as is 2K's gameplay/A.I. was/is vastly superior to Madden's the movement may not be significant in their eyes. Ian often got caught up in a verbal battle of trying to "shut people up about 2K forever", or something to that effect. That was a losing battle for many reasons, not the least of which is, its really tough to defeat a game that was turned into a martyr and/or ghost. Cam is probably just focusing on Madden's improvement vs. itself, so within that context he may be 100% justified in making the statements he has made. Taking this tact will satiate the vast majority of football gamers. The strongest 2K advocates may not find those efforts to be good enough, but I don't think he's going to concern himself with that segment of the gaming public. Given what we've seen the last 5-7 years or so, reduced expectations is actually the logical position to take if you have to play a new football game every year. Most football gamers are just being honest with themselves. They are going to break down and buy the new version every year, so they aren't really in a position to demand a superior product, or else. So modest improvements are celebrated wildly, because for them, there is no other recourse.

Good post. I agree somewhat w/your point re 2K5 martyrdom - I've said many times Tiburon probably did more to raise 2K5 awareness than 2K themselves ever did on their own. I think it's a mistake to think it's people that think "2K's gameplay/AI was vastly superior" because you can really lump the older Madden/NCAA's in w/that argument also. I thought better of it, but the other day I started to post videos of NCAA 06 (PS2) and APF to juxtapose a point I was trying to make. It's not like it's only old 2K fans "hating" on Madden/NCAA, because I'm sure there are many that actually like the games now. Just as I'm sure there are old Madden/NCAA fans that don't like what the new games have become. It goes both ways. I find one of the more interesting things that's occurred over the past few years is how w/no competition, people are actually trying to draw sharp contrasts between Madden and NCAA even though they're essentially the same game, made by the same studio. How many people are out there saying "NCAA is great, Madden sucks"?

To that end I agree w/you that it's about perspective. To me those older games stopped being legitimate barometers years ago. So my expectations are an extrapolation of where the older titles were, and where I would think the titles would be now. It's not about expecting Madden 12 to be better than APF for example - that should be a given. Madden 07 should've been better than APF given the circumstances. If we can speak honestly and say that it wasn't, then that shows how much Tiburon's game is lacking and it should be judged accordingly.

You (seem to) take the viewpoint that because of what we've seen the past 5-7 years, we need to adjust our expectations. I take the viewpoint that because EA has chosen to corner the football gaming market for themselves, that I'm not going to lower my expectations. I would think most core sports fans don't expect their games to be overhauled every year and will buy those games yearly, as long as the games have a solid to stellar foundation to begin with. When looking at baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, boxing, etc. most people can say games in those genres made a generational leap at some point this generation. Madden/NCAA have made progressive leaps, that much is certain. But until it makes that generational leap I don't think it's wrong to have high expectations for the games. Especially when they've placed themselves in the position to make themselves the the only ones available

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Armor & Sword

If the core gameplay is tuned to make it a true sim that would actually be a huge reason to buy it alone. Couple that with a return to a deeper feature rich offline Franchise mode and we will have a winner like NCAA 2011 was.

Yup. And if I may be so bold, please make it so sim gamers don't have to earn yet another annual Ph. D. in slider adjustment this year to make the game more or less approximate American football.

Is it so much to ask? Is it? IS IT I SAY??!!!

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Good post. I agree somewhat w/your point re 2K5 martyrdom - I've said many times Tiburon probably did more to raise 2K5 awareness than 2K themselves ever did on their own. I think it's a mistake to think it's people that think "2K's gameplay/AI was vastly superior" because you can really lump the older Madden/NCAA's in w/that argument also. I thought better of it, but the other day I started to post videos of NCAA 06 (PS2) and APF to juxtapose a point I was trying to make. It's not like it's only old 2K fans "hating" on Madden/NCAA, because I'm sure there are many that actually like the games now. Just as I'm sure there are old Madden/NCAA fans that don't like what the new games have become. It goes both ways. I find one of the more interesting things that's occurred over the past few years is how w/no competition, people are actually trying to draw sharp contrasts between Madden and NCAA even though they're essentially the same game, made by the same studio. How many people are out there saying "NCAA is great, Madden sucks"?

Very true. There are a lot of ps2 madden fans that still find the ps2 modes and features to be deeper than current games that get lumped into the bring back 2k group. Even the youtube/sim standard crowd is viewed as EA bashers who just want to see 2k come back when in fact the most well known of them, Apex, is a fan of Madden 2004s animations and features like the playbook editor.

I have been accused of having a 2k agenda several times as well when my favorite game of all time is actually Madden 08 last gen.

Your point about posters saying NCAA is great/Madden sucks is good too. I found this site as Madden 10 info was dropping and seems at that time NCAA 10 was seen as Madden 09.5. A year later posters claim its the greatest game the football world has ever seen and has always been superior to Madden which is absolute garbage. I just don't see how anyone can love one and hate the other either. They play very similar to me.

[K_GUN]

as long as DB AI doesn't resort to cheating