Jobo's M12: Total Control Passing; revolutionizing passing

[Joborule]

As usual, big wall of text, so I hope you like reading.

Preface

Football games have been very stagnant with the passing game for multiple gaming generations now. In 2005, Madden NFL 06 attempted to address this by introducing the vision cone. The purpose of this feature was to make the quarterback awareness attribute matter for human players. This was to address the lack of difference between using quarterbacks who have the same skill attributes, but different awareness ratings. It defiantly accomplished what it set out to do, in tweaking up the passing game and making a significant difference between Peyton Manning and a low level draft pick. However, consumer reception on the feature was generally split. Many loved the feature since it gave importance in using a quarterback that can see the whole field well, while those whom weren’t pleased with the feature felt it was double the amount of work to scan the field, look for the receiver, then throw the ball. One example is, they’ve already found their receiver, but then have to add precision split seconds to put the vision cone on them before they can throw the ball. It could also be said as well that the feature became a little bunk once you can automatically set the vision cone to look at a receiver, making it feel like a gimmick. In the aftermath, the change in the passing game was short lived, and the crowd that wasn’t in favour of the cone got their way in future Madden iterations. The feature slowly phased out in a couple of years and those that did enjoy the vision cone are calling for its return or something to make quarterback field vision matter for human users.

It’s 2010, and passing has largely felt the same as it did back in 1996 still. Quarterback awareness has no real importance still for human users, and icon passing is still the standard. Now the latter isn’t necessarily a real issue, after all if it isn’t broke, why fix it? But it’s been the same for such a long time that it’s good to ask does there need to be a new method in passing controls? After all, what’s the purpose of innovation if we aren’t going to make things better? A big criticism against Madden 11 is that isn’t doesn’t feel all that much different or improved from Madden 10, and may have even regressed. It doesn’t have the new fresh feel that truly makes a purchase of the next version worth it, and the defense is like Swiss cheese. While majority of the major issue for the gameplay in Madden aren’t really related to passing mechanics, and probably shouldn’t be a big focus for Madden 12 compare to other areas, that part of the game could use innovation to give it a new feel to the passing game. This should make Madden feel more different from then it has in the past, as well establishing a new level of fun for the passing game.

A major change to a major control scheme can be very beneficial and change the game series and sport genre it represents forever. Madden has done it before, going from passing windows to camera relative icon passing. Much more recent examples though is the EA NHL series. The development team have accomplished major success with its overhaul to stick control and shooting with the skill stick, because it brought users the feeling of having full control of controlling a hockey stick. When you want to deke left, you deke left. When you want to wind up a slap shot, you pull back then push forward to mimic the movements of a slapshot. When you wind up a wrist shot and pull the trigger, you felt the bend in the stick and the power of the release. You also control accuracy to a degree, depending on how straight you move the stick up when you shoot. This type of control scheme appeased both the hardcore hockey crowd as well the casual gamer crowd, because it was realistic, responsive and just flat out fun to use.

With controlling the stick movement, shot power, and accuracy to an extent, without moving your thumb off the right stick. There was very little use of buttons during gameplay. This was the type of change the series needed to turn it all around and turn its self into a premier game franchise series once again. This is what NBA Elite is attempting to do, by renovating the way you shoot and dribble the ball, and giving you full control in how the shooting and dribbling. You control the arc and accuracy of the shot depending on your movements with the right stick, thus taking away most of the randomization aspect of shooting in basketball games. It remains to be seen how much this impacts the series several years down the road, but the concept is intriguing to the general gamer.

So when we look at Madden NFL, as well NCAA Football, we have a passing system that has felt the same for a long time, and requires some tweaks and bolts in implementing some fundamental football aspects such as route based passing. Passing accuracy and distance is out of the users hands and is dependent on the game engine since users only have control of player to pass to, and direction to lead the ball. In the meantime, it’s most recent competitor Backbreaker has introduced a different type of passing mechanic, which revolves around the right stick. Their method is a system of moving the camera to focus on a receiver and moving right stick to pass to the target. Backbreaker as well is left with some control issues; since lob passes aren’t the easiest to pull off, and I’m not certain if you can lead receivers in a certain direction. Also accuracy is in control of the game engine. So all football games on the market currently have one thing in common, passing accuracy and distance are in complete control of the game user, with no user input factoring in. (Aside from precision passing in Madden) While it’s not a big drawback, this generation of sports games have shown giving users full control and reward for skill is an attractive attribute, and perhaps it’s time for users to have more influence on the throwing accuracy and throw power. Perhaps it’s time for users to have more control over the placement and release of the ball. Users should have the ability to put the ball anyway there want on the field. They should have full control on ball placement. They should have full control on throwing the ball away to avoid the sack, without having to throw to the sidelines.

It sounds great, but if this is to be done however, it’s important that controls are simple and don’t have a very extreme learning curve and very complicated to execute. It may have a learning curve to master, but it should be very simple to perform. It’s clear that the Madden development team wants to keep Madden controls simple enough for pick-up-and-play, and as it should be since complex controls aren’t all that fun, especially for one who doesn’t play much football games. This likely is the most difficult part and a major hurdle. It’s simple to propose a concept, but it’s another thing to make these concepts feasible and fun to use in game. Not to mention this isn’t going to be easy to master on first try most likely.

Nevertheless, I’m just gonna throw this idea out here. In the next post is my suggestion of a passing system that Madden NFL can use in attempting to rejuvenate the passing game, whether it next year, or in the future...

[Valdarez]

First, you need to play other games in order to get an idea of what is possible in the passing game, and more importantly of how to do a passing game well (APF2K8 is the best I have experienced). Madden is years behind in what's possible, with no indication of improving their passing game despite our pleas, ideas, etc over the last couple of years.

Madden's problem is that passing isn't implemented correctly from an accuracy, ball arc, and speed perspective coupled with the fact that it's been dumbed down to cater to the casual gamer with it's auto-react / attempt to catch any ball regardless of route or where the receiver was when the ball was thrown.

As for controlling where the ball goes, it's one of the items I wish didn't exist in any football game as it's what usually leads to exploits or issues with AI coverage. Until they prove they can get basic coverage working correctly, there should be no major alteration of the balls path once it's left the QB's hand.

[Joborule]

The Throw Stick; total control passing

Following the direction of NHL and NBA Elite up in EA Canada, Madden NFL can change the passing game by putting full, manual control of passing in the users hand via the right stick. The users will have no limitations on where they throw the ball, the accuracy quality of the throw, and the power, both in throw type and distance. It will eliminate the need for icon passing, which can lead to user errors at times. The user intends to throw to one receiver, but presses the wrong button, and passes to a different receiver. With this total control passing system, where they aim the ball, is where the ball will go. It also reduces the need for button input during play.
When in passing mode, no icons will appear on the screen for receivers, seeing as this isn’t icon passing. Moving the quarterback for the dropback remains the same with the left stick, as this should never change no matter what is done in the future. When you want to throw to a receiver, and wish to do a bullet pass, pull back on the right stick 180° RELATIVE to the intended target and quarterback angle, then push the stick forward on the same 180° angle for the release. To do a lob pass, it’s the same mechanics, except holding L1/LB before starting the throw.


The pull back is for the distance power up and aim. The further the throw, the longer it takes quarterbacks to release the ball. This is where strong arm, quick release quarterbacks have an advantage, as their power up will be faster. The aiming of the ball is done invert style by the pull back because pushing the stick forward on a 180° angle affects the accuracy and release. Quarterbacks with great accuracy will have a forgiveness buffer when pushing the sticks forward, while lower accuracy quarterbacks will have less forgiveness. The reason for aiming the ball on the pull back relative to the receiver and quarterback position is because the quarterback is not always going to be throwing from dead centre of the football field. They may be on a side of the pocket, or rollout towards the sidelines. Throwing to your wide receiver changes if you’re in the middle of the pocket, or near the sidelines.

The red dot represents the intended ball spot placement. The white line represents the stick movement to aim at the intended spot. Notice in the second image that the stick diagram is closer to the left, which is why the angle of the line is different.

This is the accuracy region for two different quarterbacks with different accuracy. The green region represents perfect accuracy (100%-95%), yellow is moderate accuracy (94%-80%), orange (79%-50%) is hazardous accuracy, and the red outside zone is the danger zone/horrible accuracy (-49%). The left image is of a quarterback that has a better accuracy attribute then the quarterback to the right, hence more room for error.

Now, this could be pretty difficult to do without visual feedback on where the ball is projected to land, so a cursor icon should show up that represents where the ball should land when thrown. While powering up the throw, the cursor would distance itself from the quarterback and go up the field. The more power in the throw, the further the cursor goes obviously.
The push forward on the sticks in required in releasing the ball. If the user just pulls back but don’t push the right stick forward (releases stick), the quarterback will do a pump fake. This can allow us to have more depth and control in how to do out pump fakes, since you can pump fake towards a certain receiver rather than the centre of the field.

Now a quarterback just can’t have controls for passing solely. They’ll need to be able to scramble, or evade tackles. This is where the other triggers and buttons come to place in being modifiers. Holding down X/A will activate evade modifier, where you can hold down those buttons and move with the left stick to make an evade move. To scramble and make juke/truck stick manoeuvres behind the line of scrimmage, press the ole sprint trigger R2/RT to be in scramble mode. Too throw the ball would require pressing down R2/RT again to get back into passing mode. Speaking of which, if the user is throwing on the run, accuracy buffer should shrink since accuracy on the run isn’t as great obviously. The degree it shrinks depends on the quarterbacks throwing on the run rating.

Also remember that playmaker feature from Madden 2004, which allowed you to lead and direct receivers when rolling out? I’m not sure if the feature is still in the game, but that should be able to fit under this control scheme by holding R1/RB and moving the right stick in the direction you want the receiver to go.

Throwing the ball away to the sidelines can still be done by pressing R3. Thus you can avoid the whole power up drawback and just let that sucker fly off. With this passing system through, it’ll allow the user to throw the ball away anywhere on the field. So they can avoid intentional grounding, but run the risk of interception if throwing in field.

In concept, I think this is a cool system. However, this can be very difficult to execute in game and may not have a very simple “pick-up-and-play” controls that is required. However if this control scheme is easy enough to execute and understand (execute and master are different), it could be a quality change to the passing game. To help users get more use to the feature, it should have an assistance slider and system in place. Thus a user on rookie or pro skill level or even higher can get more experience (or preference) with the feature by having some assistance for aim, accuracy, and power.

Pros:
· Gives users full ball placement control
· Creates route based passing
· Limits controls to sticks and trigger buttons, less thumb movement between sticks and buttons
· Responsive/reactive controls to user input; rewards good control/skill
· More control over pump fake
· Playmaker control, while maintain quarterback evade
· Brings more skill to playing quarterback
· Combats ‘cheese’ style play. I.E run in backfield, rollout to sidelines, throw deep bomb to other side of field easily. Stresses more proper style of play
· Very fresh passing experience

Cons:
· May not be user friendly initially, could have a very difficult learning curve, even with assistances system
· Powering up throws in a very fast timeframe for short-medium distance throws could be challenging
· Passing to one receiver when there is a crowd of receivers (crossing routes, double ins) could be an issue

[Joborule]

The Throw Stick + Vision Cone; total controlling passing combined with quarterback awareness factor

Ah yes, the vision cone. Like it or not, it defiantly addressed a very big issue with human quarterback play. There where disadvantages in having a player with all the tools, but no toolbox behind centre. It gave big incentives in having a quarterback like Peyton Manning and having to keep him by giving up big bucks in franchise mode. You couldn’t cheat and just draft a kid with a big arm and decent accuracy for bones as your starter in your super bowl winning season...well you could, but it was much more difficult then with an established QB...


In order for a football game to be a true football simulation, I can’t see how not having awareness/vision matter for human users be left unaddressed since it such a major part of a quarterback skill in real life football. In other sports games, the awareness factor isn’t as big since players that are elite is generally because they have superb athletic ability that does most of the talking, and skill attributes can manipulate their play well enough. In football though for the quarterback position, you’re only an elite quarterback if you can read the field and handle the blitz well. If you don’t have that and you’re not Michael Vick in his earlier years, you’re not going to make much noise.


I don’t really understand what there was to dislike or say was gimmicky in the feature. It was an authentic feature that realistically reflected QB field vision, was very simple and easy to use once you’ve got the hang of it, and didn’t add anytime really to scanning the field and throwing to a receiver. It also allowed quarterbacks to read off and mislead the defense on where the ball is going. I don’t buy that it added precision milliseconds and lead to more sacks unjust sacks. It should lead to more sacks, for QB’s that have less vision, because that was the point.


You can argue that you already have to watch for the blitz and find the receiver, so why place even more disadvantage on the user? Well non elite quarterbacks can’t see the field like Manning or Bress, so they have less room to escape sacks like those two could. This should be replicated, so therefore there should an disadvantage and advantage in use of certain QBs. Quite frankly, those that were against the feature I think should suck it up and stick with it until they get more use to it. It’s better then what we have now and made more attributes matter. I would think amongst the consumer group, both hardcore and casual gamers, the vision cone would be better to have in the end. I was disappointed that EA didn’t stick to its guns and let it have more of a chance of gaining approval. But with the direction Madden was heading at that time, I guess it wasn’t going to get much of a chance.


Anyway, if this was to make a return, along with the throw stick, the passing system would pretty much have all your bases covered. Full control in passing, while giving tier levels between all quarterbacks. There would be a tremendous advantage in having a Peyton Manning or Drew Brees, compared to having a Matt Leinart or Brady Quinn. Again, you couldn’t just focus on the passing ratings alone and have to give a strong look at quarterback vision rating.


To move the cone while in passing mode with the pass stick, the user would hold down L2/LT and move the right stick left or right. There probably wouldn’t be a cone lock system during play since there is no icon player designation lock. A lock could be initiated before the snap however on the primary receiver or another received selected, whether it’s by icons or something else in coach view. After the snap you would be able to move to cone, taking it off the auto lock.


Pros:
· Gives merit for awareness/vision attribute for user controlled quarterbacks
· Creates separation between elite, good, average, and mediocre quarterbacks
· Let’s defense read quarterback, as well lets quarterback trick defense
· Brings even more skill to playing quarterback


Cons:
· Adding to already potentially complex throw stick, could make it even more inconvenient to use.
· Community reception split. Many would not be in favour for return of feature.

This system is one suggestion in trying to rejuvenate passing in football games, and it may not be all that feasible and suitable for the Madden gamer, but it does open up control to the user much more. Regardless if anything is done to change the ways of throwing the ball, I do stress that the vision cone gets a bad rap and I strongly believe it should make its return, or something close to it, so awareness becomes more important once again. Like I said, when quarterback vision is such an important fundamental of football, I think it’s better to have the feature, rather than be without it.

[Joborule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

First, you need to play other games in order to get an idea of what is possible in the passing game, and more importantly of how to do a passing game well (APF2K8 is the best I have experienced). Madden is years behind in what's possible, with no indication of improving their passing game despite our pleas, ideas, etc over the last couple of years. Madden's problem is that passing isn't implemented correctly from an accuracy, ball arc, and speed perspective coupled with the fact that it's been dumbed down to cater to the casual gamer with it's auto-react / attempt to catch any ball regardless of route or where the receiver was when the ball was thrown. As for controlling where the ball goes, it's one of the items I wish didn't exist in any football game as it's what usually leads to exploits or issues with AI coverage. Until they prove they can get basic coverage working correctly, there should be no major alteration of the balls path once it's left the QB's hand.

The AI seems to be shredded pretty easily currently even without the depth user control. :P

This is just food for thought on what could be done to passing in the future. Although Maddens' system has some downfalls compare to other game, the main point I was trying to present is that passing has been the same for so long, that perhaps Madden should try to change it around for the better if it's possible? It can deal with these accuracy and ball arc issues while doing so.

But that's just for the quarterback. The whole system, including DBs and WRs would have to be worked on to make it all work realistically. I understand though the lack of faith that they'll actually make receivers reactions to the thrown balls much more realistic. The game helps fix mistakes that a casual gamer may make, even on the high skill levels. That creates issues for defence, as well on offence.

[roadman]

I not opposed to change for the better, but I'm at the stage in life where I don't know if I want to spend time in the practice area and try to get comfortable with a new passing system.

If I wasn't married and 20 yrs younger, I'd probably be all gung ho about this suggestion.

I know I'm the exception and not the rule in the age dept.

[RGiles36]

First, I imagine this thread will end up in the 'thread graveyard' aka the wishlist forum :P.

Total control passing is good in thought and I've even suggested it several years ago. But I think it would be difficult to make something like this function without some form of icon. What if two receivers are in the same viscinity? Yeah, they could do move the camera like Backbreaker -- but what about those of us who do not want the on-field experience? I want to play the game and manipulate the results, but I don't have the desire to feel like I personally am in the middle of the field.

And by no means am I attempting to poke holes in your idea. I'm all for any revolution/discussion on the passing game.

[RGiles36]

Funny you make this thread today. I was going to do one on tweaking the passing game. In short, I want the precision/lead to be more responsive. If I'm controlling one of the more accurate QBs, I want the ability to throw high & inside/outside and low inside/outside. And I want receivers to react accordingly.

Precision passing is there currently to an extent, but the game has the tendency to take over if you lead in the wrong direction. I don't like that too much LOL. If a receiver is running to the left and I lead right, I'd like to see the pass go behind him and/or have the receiver make an awkward adjustment. That's user control! Instead, it's almost like not leading at all.

Tweaking precision passing is not all that radical a change, but it's probably a more realistic expectation for the short term. I'll probably come with a more well-put thread or blog in the near future in hopes to grab a dev's attention.