Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

[roadman]

So, bottom line, you do have a bias and agenda with Brady.

Thus, all your statements are opinions, not fact.

[KensaiKatai]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

You can point to any QB and bring up a game where they played poorly and still won the game from Sammy Baugh, to Johnny Unitas, to Joe Montana. This means nothing. Secondly, Vinatieri did not win all 3 Super Bowls. For starters, a kicker has to be put into position to make the kick. A kicker can't make an 80+ yarder, lol. Brady put him into position to make those kicks. Secondly, the games were TIED in the 2 Super Bowls where the kicks were needed. Thirdly, Super Bowl 39 was not won by a field goal. It was won by 3 points yes, but that's because garbage Dexter Reid gave up a late TD when the Pats were up 24-14. Also, before Moss, Brady had a year where he led the league in TD passes and another where he led the league in passing yards. Game managers never lead the league in anything. To call Brady a game manager is absurd. Your claim doesn't line up with game footage. Trent Dilfer was a game manager. Brady wasn't asked to just not screw it up, he was asked to make clutch throws because that's what he's always been capable of. Super Bowl 36, they could've sat on the ball and went to overtime, even John Madden thought this is what they'd do. They didn't. Instead, Brady (a first-year starter) threw, drove them downfield and put them into position for the winning FG. Super Bowl 38, again, he set the Super Bowl record for completions against one of the leagues best defenses, and plenty of those throws were downfield passes and tight passes. And once again, he threw on a final drive, same outcome. Win. Super Bowl 42, clutch throws again on a final drive and this time it was a TD pass. Eli had his own, but had Eli not we'd still be talking about Brady's final drive. I'm sorry man, but you're just making this stuff up in your head because you hate Tom Brady, but it's not based in fact. Brady has had so many games where he's been called on to make the clutch throws it's hard to keep count now.

i understand what your saying in us not giving him enough credit, but i think your giving him too much..what happens if vinatieri misses...then what??


edit: for the record i'm a brady fan being a michigan lover, but the tuck rule...all this crap with spygate...when the play breaks down he's nowhere to be found..facts are facts..i'd LOVE to see brady on the raiders and see if he would of had any success at all..he was perfect for the system and he did his job..as any good football player should..but he wouldn't be able to do his job in ANY system..like a great player would..that's the point i'm trying to make.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by KensaiKatai

i understand what your saying in us not giving him enough credit, but i think your giving him too much..what happens if vinatieri misses...then what?? edit: for the record i'm a brady fan being a michigan lover, but the tuck rule...all this crap with spygate...when the play breaks down he's nowhere to be found..facts are facts..i'd LOVE to see brady on the raiders and see if he would of had any success at all..he was perfect for the system and he did his job..as any good football player should..but he wouldn't be able to do his job in ANY system..like a great player would..that's the point i'm trying to make.

I understand what you are saying, but you can't blame Brady for the Tuck Rule or Spygate. It's just because he is associated with both.

Did Brady make the call? Did he write the rule?

Spygate, that is all on his coach, not Brady.

Plus, we don't know if Brady wouldn't succeed in any other system, that is all pure speculation.

[NovaStar]

To Shotgun.

"I didn't get an answer about this from another poster, so I'll ask you: How is throwing 6 yard flat routes to wide open HBs who are playing against PREVENT DEFENSES, making "clutch throws"? Manning to Tyree was a clutch throw. McNabb on 4th and 26 was a clutch throw. Roethlisberger to Holmes in the corner to WIN the Superbowl was a clutch throw. All of these throws had a level of difficulty to them. Brady's drives came on VERY routine, low risk passes and he made NO ATTEMPT to score himself."

Andy says: that's not clutch.



I answered you, but maybe you didn't get what I was saying. You are using twisted logic, which therefore makes your opinion twisted (i.e. your bias against Brady) which makes your responses borderline insane.

Now, again, we are speaking of football (NFL), not football, soccer. In american football, the job of the qb on a pass play and/or audible to a pass play, is to read the defense. If the defense gives you an hb swing pass as a viable option, being a great qb (or at least a competent one) causes you to use that option, especially if it gets you necessary yardage to put you in fg range, or to get a first down, you know, move the chains.

If an nfl qb does this often enough (this, being defined as moving the chains in big games) and wins multiple SB's while doing so (included in this would be throwing mid range, deep passes, precision passes, and timing passes) he is great, in the eye of an unbiased, rational thinking, american. I give you a pass because you obviously are from europe, because you keep confusing the two footballs. In American football, Brady is great. In european football (soccer) he isn't. Maybe as the NFL continues to play games across the pond you will gain a better understanding of the NFL, and what it takes to be considered a great qb. Mate.

[shotgun styles]

Quote: Originally Posted by NovaStar

I answered you, but maybe you didn't get what I was saying. You are using twisted logic, which therefore makes your opinion twisted (i.e. your bias against Brady) which makes your responses borderline insane. Now, again, we are speaking of football (NFL), not football, soccer. In american football, the job of the qb on a pass play and/or audible to a pass play, is to read the defense. If the defense gives you an hb swing pass as a viable option, being a great qb (or at least a competent one) causes you to use that option, especially if it gets you necessary yardage to put you in fg range, or to get a first down, you know, move the chains. If an nfl qb does this often enough (this, being defined as moving the chains in big games) and wins multiple SB's while doing so (included in this would be throwing mid range, deep passes, precision passes, and timing passes) he is great, in the eye of an unbiased, rational thinking, american. I give you a pass because you obviously are from europe, because you keep confusing the two footballs. In American football, Brady is great. In european football (soccer) he isn't. Maybe as the NFL continues to play games across the pond you will gain a better understanding of the NFL, and what it takes to be considered a great qb. Mate.

To be perfectly honest, I would be a horrible European. I've been there. It's WAY too cold for me. Cool stuff there, lots of history, but I live for the sunshine and there's precious little of it in Europe.

Witty banter aside, and back tot he discussion, you and some other posters seem to misunderstand me. I do NOT have an "anti-Brady" bias. Brady is the best at what he does. My bias is against the NFL's rules that produced a fraud like Tom Brady in the first place.

If the rules are fair, and offenses have to play on the same level as defenses in the NFL, the Tom Brady's of the world never come into being. He goes into coaching and someone more talented becomes a QB. Unfortunately, offenses are getting a free pass and the result is a bunch of massively overrated system QBs are taking the NFL by storm.

Imagine that after the Bulls won their first 2 championships in the 1990s the NBA banned them from dunking and shooting 3 pointers. Not the whole NBA, just the Bulls in order to make it more fair for the rest of the league. Instead of winning 6 championships, now maybe they only win 3. Would you respect the teams that beat the Bulls, knowing that the rules were adjusted just to slow them down?

This is EXACTLY what has happened to NFL defenses. They have had their hands tied, and offenses have been given the green light to blatantly cheat in order to succeed. Thus, all of these so called "records" are fake. It would be like allowing offensive players to take steroids, but not defenses. If that happened, would you respect all these passing records? Probably not.

So what's the difference between giving someone a chemically induced unfair advantage and giving someone rule based unfair advantage?

[Obelysk]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

To be perfectly honest, I would be a horrible European. I've been there. It's WAY too cold for me. Cool stuff there, lots of history, but I live for the sunshine and there's precious little of it in Europe. Witty banter aside, and back tot he discussion, you and some other posters seem to misunderstand me. I do NOT have an "anti-Brady" bias. Brady is the best at what he does. My bias is against the NFL's rules that produced a fraud like Tom Brady in the first place. If the rules are fair, and offenses have to play on the same level as defenses in the NFL, the Tom Brady's of the world never come into being. He goes into coaching and someone more talented becomes a QB. Unfortunately, offenses are getting a free pass and the result is a bunch of massively overrated system QBs are taking the NFL by storm. Imagine that after the Bulls won their first 2 championships in the 1990s the NBA banned them from dunking and shooting 3 pointers. Not the whole NBA, just the Bulls in order to make it more fair for the rest of the league. Instead of winning 6 championships, now maybe they only win 3. Would you respect the teams that beat the Bulls, knowing that the rules were adjusted just to slow them down? This is EXACTLY what has happened to NFL defenses. They have had their hands tied, and offenses have been given the green light to blatantly cheat in order to succeed. Thus, all of these so called "records" are fake. It would be like allowing offensive players to take steroids, but not defenses. If that happened, would you respect all these passing records? Probably not. So what's the difference between giving someone a chemically induced unfair advantage and giving someone rule based unfair advantage?

You say you have no bais againts Brady yet you call him a "fraud." Look there is ZERO proof that Brady would not succeed if they took away roughing the passer, or the little cushions that the WRS get but that was becuase we beat the snot out of the Colts. I actually agree with you on the stance that the offenses get waaaaaay too much pampering, I am more of a defensive minded person actually and its highly furstrating seeing the amount of bias that offenses get.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

To be perfectly honest, I would be a horrible European. I've been there. It's WAY too cold for me. Cool stuff there, lots of history, but I live for the sunshine and there's precious little of it in Europe. Witty banter aside, and back tot he discussion, you and some other posters seem to misunderstand me. I do NOT have an "anti-Brady" bias. Brady is the best at what he does. My bias is against the NFL's rules that produced a fraud like Tom Brady in the first place. If the rules are fair, and offenses have to play on the same level as defenses in the NFL, the Tom Brady's of the world never come into being. He goes into coaching and someone more talented becomes a QB. Unfortunately, offenses are getting a free pass and the result is a bunch of massively overrated system QBs are taking the NFL by storm. Imagine that after the Bulls won their first 2 championships in the 1990s the NBA banned them from dunking and shooting 3 pointers. Not the whole NBA, just the Bulls in order to make it more fair for the rest of the league. Instead of winning 6 championships, now maybe they only win 3. Would you respect the teams that beat the Bulls, knowing that the rules were adjusted just to slow them down? This is EXACTLY what has happened to NFL defenses. They have had their hands tied, and offenses have been given the green light to blatantly cheat in order to succeed. Thus, all of these so called "records" are fake. It would be like allowing offensive players to take steroids, but not defenses. If that happened, would you respect all these passing records? Probably not. So what's the difference between giving someone a chemically induced unfair advantage and giving someone rule based unfair advantage?

So, the system and the rules are unfair to you and Brady is a still a fraud? It's all subjective whether the rules are fair or not. Sounds like your blaming the Tuck Rule and calling out Brady for being a fraud because of the Tuck Rule.

It isn't smash mouth football anymore, that was a different time and a different era. Brady is over-rated because he isn't a QB of yesteryear?

The game changes from decade to decade.

If you don't have an agenda or bias against Brady, knock off the fraud crap.

The system or rules don't suit you, find another sport to rally around, like baseball. There is a game where the rules have never changed and frauds like Paul Molitor , Trever Hoffman, Kent Tukulve, Rollie Fingers, and Bruce Sutter because there never was a DH rule and save specialist didn't come into the 70's.

All the above players are over-rated HOF's (except Tukulve, threw him in there because of the Pirates) that are system players only. They couldn't survive in the Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth, era.

[rbowlden]

WOW, no love for my giants!? Jacobs is the only one on the team in the top ten, and he is #9, not looking good...