The Abomination That is Madden Nation

[Phil_Frazier]

Quote: Originally Posted by cpdfrank

It becomes more obvious that EA is not committed to sim style football. I guess thats fine, at least we know it. This is my last Madden game that i purchase. But what shows me even more that EA is not about real football is the fact that they have on Madden Nation nothing but a bunch of players acting like ghetto trash hoodlums, who could care less about football, as long as they get to be on TV acting the fool. Or on the other hand, maybe Madden Nation is modeling what the NFL has turned into. Half of the players have either been arrested, or are incarcerated. And when a certain percentage of NFL players cant score a touchdown without acting like fools, i guess the Madden Nation participants fit the bill.

I disagree with the blanket statement that EA is not committed to sim style footall. Madden 2010 features a brand new design team, all of which want to deliver an authentic NFL video game experience. I'm not saying the previous design team didn't, but understand that the Madden audience is incredibly diverse and we need to come up with features that provide a good experience for as many of them as possible.

I personally don't enjoy the style of gameplay that is often used in tournament play or on Madden Nation. You will see this sort of game abuse in any product that's used for a competitive event. Let's be honest, if you knew of a tactic that you could run play after play and ultimately get you a real shot at winning $100,000 dollars, wouldn't you do it too? If you think people wouldn't use a glitch or cheese tactic in any other game to win a huge prize, I think you would be mistaken.

Over the years we've brought in guys that compete in these hyper-competitive environments with the purpose of squashing their tactics. It's become a cat and mouse game. We fix one problem and another pops up. We've even had Madden Challenge winners on our QA team to better find these issues before we ship.

In a perfect world, we provide a way for all styles of gameplay to exist. There should be a way for our hardcore fans (you) to set up a game that provides the ultimate sim experience. There should also be a place for more casual NFL fans to have a quick pick-up-and-play experience. This is something we've certainly discussed on the team and hope to better solve in the future.

Phil

[RogueHominid]

One thing that could and should be done, Phil, if this game is to reach another level of realism, is the implementation of offensive and defensive intelligence. I play APF, not Madden, but there are plays that people can run over and over again for pretty consistent gains. I'd love it if the defenders clued in to a play once they saw it a couple of times--started shading, anticipating routes, etc. I'd also love it if OL were able to pick up blitz and stunt patterns. This is actually already in APF, and it's great.

The caveat here is that your games already have a bit of a problem with psychic players, especially on defense (see gideon if you have questions), so I'm not sure this could be incorporated successfully by the team without just adding one more problem to the mix, but if you all could do it well, it would make a nice addition. The thing that makes online play so boring sometimes is that people just call the same handful of plays. With an intelligence system, this would be eliminated, or at least stongly discouraged.

Just my .02.

[ThaShark28_316]

I understand all of what is being said here. But I do actually like the show...cuz its fun to see these guys play cuz if they played me and my 100% sim ball, they'd likely get shutout or held to 14 pts or less.

When I play madden, i come in with, like, somewhat of a mental script, like my texans' coach, Gary Kubiak...first few plays are scripted and run no matter what...punts on 4th and 1 at my own 20, etc...i just cant play w/o running my sim style O...no bs no huddles, roll outs all day, rocket catches...nothing like that.

My main issues with games, specifically online, is the gimmick defenses...i know yall see it...and with the way the O-line plays..****ns can be broken up in the backfield, and its real sad looking.

[JMMTX1978]

Quote:

I personally don't enjoy the style of gameplay that is often used in tournament play or on Madden Nation. You will see this sort of game abuse in any product that's used for a competitive event. Let's be honest, if you knew of a tactic that you could run play after play and ultimately get you a real shot at winning $100,000 dollars, wouldn't you do it too? If you think people wouldn't use a glitch or cheese tactic in any other game to win a huge prize, I think you would be mistaken.

This is wrong. Serious video game tourneys will always have set rules for each game. These rules generally ban any glitches or overpowered/unstoppable moves/tactics. Pretty much human rules to stop faulty programming or AI.

I do not watch Madden Nation but I do know that they do not have rules like those in most video game tourneys. If they did it would be a different product. I am sure most madden tourneys don't have rules like these. It really seems to be a sports game thing.

VS fighting, FPS, and any other competitive game tourney will have rules to stop exactly what Madden Nation promotes...

[chia51]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fillycheze

I disagree with the blanket statement that EA is not committed to sim style footall. Madden 2010 features a brand new design team, all of which want to deliver an authentic NFL video game experience. I'm not saying the previous design team didn't, but understand that the Madden audience is incredibly diverse and we need to come up with features that provide a good experience for as many of them as possible. Phil

First off that is the problem... you guys are too worried about adding new features to sell copies... when all you need to do is work on GAMEPLAY. If the gameplay simulates REAL FOOTBALL alot of this "cheese crap" would go out the window. There will always be exploits no matter what. But atleast it would be toned down to "realistic" cheese if thats possible.

[Exonerated]

Just make the gameplay realistic, then its all good.

Its true, everyone like 70 yard tds and aerial shows. I do too. But in order to dominate the air, you need to be good. None of this scrambling and bombing off back foot crap.

Dominating passing is very hard but the rewards are very pretty.

Emulate this in Madden. Still allow for the huge completions and spectacular catches, but make them only successful because the user is playing good sim ball.

[faster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fillycheze

I disagree with the blanket statement that EA is not committed to sim style footall. Madden 2010 features a brand new design team, all of which want to deliver an authentic NFL video game experience. I'm not saying the previous design team didn't, but understand that the Madden audience is incredibly diverse and we need to come up with features that provide a good experience for as many of them as possible. I personally don't enjoy the style of gameplay that is often used in tournament play or on Madden Nation. You will see this sort of game abuse in any product that's used for a competitive event. Let's be honest, if you knew of a tactic that you could run play after play and ultimately get you a real shot at winning $100,000 dollars, wouldn't you do it too? If you think people wouldn't use a glitch or cheese tactic in any other game to win a huge prize, I think you would be mistaken. Over the years we've brought in guys that compete in these hyper-competitive environments with the purpose of squashing their tactics. It's become a cat and mouse game. We fix one problem and another pops up. We've even had Madden Challenge winners on our QA team to better find these issues before we ship. In a perfect world, we provide a way for all styles of gameplay to exist. There should be a way for our hardcore fans (you) to set up a game that provides the ultimate sim experience. There should also be a place for more casual NFL fans to have a quick pick-up-and-play experience. This is something we've certainly discussed on the team and hope to better solve in the future. Phil

Well said. There's certainly a balance that needs to be found. I think many of us have seen an improvement in Madden this year but there still remains countless bugs and strange AI that hampers the simulation feel. Why aren't these bugs and AI deficiencies all addressed? I have a feeling your testers are finding them. Why aren't they being squashed in time for the release of the game? Not enough time? Not important enough in the grand scheme of things? People want to blame testers but let's get real here folks. Testers found these issues, we all found many of them on day one and two.... these issues just weren't addressed by the programmers/team for one reason or another. Perhaps the testing cycle needs to happen earlier in the process so that ample time is given to fix the problems that are found and are truly preventing a solid game from arriving in stores.

[RedskinsGM2B]

Has EA considered designing 2 seperate games? I know, I know...marketing, advertising, franchising, dev cost, double the teams yadda, yadda. But, bare with me a second THEN you can tear me to pieces on such a "crazy" notion.
A HUGE percentage of "sim" fans are holdovers from the 2K series right? Sim players want a dedicated product aimed toward realistic presentation, gameplay and strategy. This would ALSO pacify the 2K5 fanatics. This would allow for a focused mission without the complexities and pitfalls of trying to include "EVERYTHING TO EVERBODY" on the same project. Then perhaps you would be able to bring back the nuances of this country's NFL (not ONLINE NFL) such as, the chain gangs, cheer leaders, crazy fans, more internal control of the franchise, pre-game, in-game, halftime, end of game highlights by a noted personality, POG's Halftime Hero...As a result, most of THIS demographic will play this "out of the box" with tears in their eyes, the way the NFL GODS intended. Just provide them with accurate roster updates and they'll send you money AFTER they've purchased the product. They'll even buy an "extra" copy for display & put it in a glass case on their mantle. LOL...seriously. All are happy in the SIM/2K5 camps.
On the other hand, design yet ANOTHER project that is 'intentionally" built & marketed to the "other" side of the house...cheezers, glitchers, playas...whatEVER you wanna call them. This product should cater to the wide open, no holds barred, see who can be the MOST ridiculous/shockingly creative addict. Without having to concentrate as much on impeccable representation or detail or worrying if this conflicts with the TRUE NFL, it leaves the door open to let it all hang out and let's the team focus on the 'fun factor". Both products can be supported online. Hell, try to engineer a way that the two camps could compete against each other if desired...wow, I heard crickets on that one.
With both crowds being catered to on dedicated endeavors, you cut down on the conflict in fans, conflicts in design, & conflicts in these forums. Both projects should be stellar quality when the focus is narrowed yet, you produce a supreme product!
You can ONLY say that this is unheard of to a certain degree. Take HEAD COACH (which only needs roster/coach updates to make this camp happy) for example. Head Coach pretty much has everything that crowd needs. You'd only need to retool it every now & again to polish it and keep it looking new. No, serious overhauls until you want to change graphics or something.
You could box these two "versions" of Madden together for a premium, seperate for greed...LOL Hell, market a combo pack with all included, Head Coach 2010, Madden "NFL" Football 2010, and...ready for this?...Madden "Skillz" Football 2010. Yeah, I know it was a pretty bad title but, you get the jist of it.
Bottom line is this; If you concentrate on ONE thing, ONE style...you DO manufacture the SUPERIOR product. As a result, you DO become the reigning authority in your respective specialty, leaving no room for argument. It WOULD be a major/costly undertaking. I understand this. However, it WOULD put an end to so many problems and unite such a diverse and demanding crowd under on banner. And, if your desire is to be KING of anything, a TRUE KING provides for ALL of his provinces & people.