Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

[sroz39]

I just want to say you guys are doing great things here. I was ready to toss this game away, before I stumbled on DB's sliders. Like I mentioned, the best of the bunch on here, which is no small feat because there's some truly great sets. Then I came across billharris' thread about the game speed and that made me bump up the speed at which I play at and made DB's sliders play even better, imo.

Finally I came across this thread by bill and wow...what an eye opener. I've been silently testing some of your findings alongside you guys while I wait for a patch and I must say, bill, you've truly blown this game open "under the hood". I've got a mix of DB's and bill's sliders going right now with some zeroed out sliders and I must say, it's like night and day how this game plays out of the box and how it's playing now. Each small tweak brings the game closer and closer to playing a spectacular game of football, in spite of the crappy engine.

Thanks again guys, and I'm really encouraged to see DB "working" with bill and some of the other guys in this thread to come up with some theories and such. This game's faults don't stand a chance against you guys lol.

Thanks again

[shadox]

Quote: Originally Posted by DrewBledsoe

Yes to take those PRO-TAK breakaway runs down to more realistic levels. It seems a difference of 5 between the 2 sliders is adequate. e.g. I have my Human TKL at 35 and AI Break TKL at 30. Though if you use 0 and 5, you'll be getting one fumble per 18 carries in dry conditions (god knows how many you'd get in a "wet" game)..so you'll need to raise the fumble slider to either 2 or 3 , at a quick estimate.

Have you mixed them?
Do you mean 0 tackle and 5 break tackle = more fumbles or the other way around?

You would contradict your own statement with that

Reading your last statement with the numbers on your peterson test, it seems like a low brk tkle also determines how "strong" the RB can keep the ball.

The question still is, if they are independent or not....

Have you tested tkl at 5 (where you expect more fumbles) and brk tkl on 0,5,10,15 ?

The other problem is, we don't know if, and when which sliders have a balanced curve.

Damn, still 3 hrs untill I can test this stuff

[DrewBledsoe]

Quote: Originally Posted by shadox

Have you mixed them? Do you mean 0 tackle and 5 break tackle = more fumbles or the other way around? You would contradict your own statement with that Reading your last statement with the numbers on your peterson test, it seems like a low brk tkle also determines how "strong" the RB can keep the ball. The question still is, if they are independent or not.... Have you tested tkl at 5 (where you expect more fumbles) and brk tkl on 0,5,10,15 ? The other problem is, we don't know if, and when which sliders have a balanced curve. Damn, still 3 hrs untill I can test this stuff

I might have mixed them up, may be I didn't explain them well enough. (I've been awake for too long, need some sleep for a while after this).

I was basically answering to PB, who has "zero sliders" except passing and catching. If he uses 0 BRK TKL, and 5 TKL (to lessen the breakaway run chance), then he also needs to raise the FUMBLE slider, which he will presently have on zero. Otherwise he will fumble far too much. I suggest he tries out 2 or 3 instead of zero.

I don't really see BRK TKL effecting fumbles in any way (but of course not impossible). I think it's a direct mix of The Fumble slider and the TKL slider, which would make sense. I'm assuming that the fumbles started because they Opponents TKL slider was 5 higher than the RB's fumble slider (Although we can only guess how this relates). A RB's ability to break tackles, isn't related to his ability to hold on to the ball (Peterson is a bad fumbler, he's rated 69 Carry on Madden, he had 9 fumbles last season on 380 something carries).

[pbz06]

So what I'm understanding from your tests is that the Tackle slider of the defender is tied into the Fumble slider (or ability to not fumble) of the offensive player.

So you're suggesting to first determine the best Tackle slider, and then match (or go higher) with the fumble slider.

Makes sense

[shadox]

Thx DB

@pbz

I would see them still separatly.
The tackle slider determines the tolerance of the tackle.

E.g. on 100, any tackle will be perfect and enganged from a wider range, means the angle,momentum,position etc. won't have that much effect. This overall makes the tackles more powerfull and therefor makes fumbles more probable.

So, yes, with high tackle sliders, the fumble slider should maybe be adjusted, but we should see them as following problems and not something to fit into a ratio.

=> Low Tackle slider will make the criteria to engage a tackle more strict = momentum,angle,speed,position coubnt more= chances of "perfect fumble" are lower= lower chance for a fumble.

[bill2451]

tackle slider should be the first thing you set, w/out a doubt... set that so that you get the most realistic animation selections at the appropriate disance...

after that set the other sliders related to takles so that the game plays realistic

the same goes for blocking, first set the animation slider so its realistic situations, then set the result slider so it's realistic results from those situations...

first set Pass Block, then set Pass Rush

first set Run Block... then set Run Block Shed

when I assemble my slider set, this is basically how it will be done

[bill2451]

if you do it the other way, say I set Pass Rush first then Pass Block, I could easily get the average time I feel pressure on my QB to be what I want based just on the pass rush... but then i will have to put the Pass Block to whatever fits my Pass Rush... meaning the blocking could look weird, suction blocking, not forming as good a pocket, etc

sp while the result may be the same, that 4/5 seconds of gameplay will play/look/feel vastly different

[Justin Clark]

Quote: Originally Posted by bill2451

tackle slider should be the first thing you set, w/out a doubt... set that so that you get the most realistic animation selections at the appropriate disance... after that set the other sliders related to takles so that the game plays realistic the same goes for blocking, first set the animation slider so its realistic situations, then set the result slider so it's realistic results from those situations... first set Pass Block, then set Pass Rush first set Run Block... then set Run Block Shed when I assemble my slider set, this is basically how it will be done

Hey bill, hows it coming with your official sliders?