Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

[Jet Sufferer]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

Right there with you. Before today I put the odds at 20%. Not sure how I feel now. Maybe a little less? The funny thing was the first thing Rex said was "I understand that you had conversations with us in 2011. Mind if I ask what happened then?" I told them that we had a difference in philosophy and I didn't want to attach my name to something that compromised my methodology and hard work. I also told them that I felt all they were trying to do was pump me for information on how I do stuff...some of it I couldn't answer because of the NDA or intellectual property. I think that this conversation today was more constructive. Rex told me that he was impressed with my knowledge. That is a start. However, this is all talk at this point and it is important to reiterate that this was only the beginning of the dialogue. Asking me what role I see playing in all of this says something too. Some mixed messages, but at least they are opening a dialogue and seeking out people (who at least claim to be) in the know. Another thing that is concerning (and I know it may piss some people off here) is that they may go to community based ratings. Just what we need, another popularity contest. They may as well put every player on every team at 99 in everything because that is what it will get to eventually. The biggest resistance my system will face is from casual gamers who are shocked an appalled at seeing starters in the 60s regularly. Some will write those ratings off immediately. Then, throw in the heat from the players themselves and we have a giant s--t storm in the making. As good the dialogue so far is, those are the things that make me think that having real grades and real ratings based on data will ever work for this franchise. Everyone is too used to having 90+ for every player in everything. It's quite sad that the real NFL isn't anything like that. Why else do you think that the average player is out in 2-3 years? The average player is not anywhere near elite. To me, it's a start. If they bring me in, great! If not, I just hope they go to something based on data and don't open it up to idiots to vote on. You can kiss any semblance of sim goodbye if they do that. Just my honest opinion.

I wouldn't take the job or compromise one iota (unless you really need the money, lol). They may just want you for "sim cover", and then just release the same game they always do.

As far as the deviation and hurt player feelings, I always thought there could be a "secret sauce" to massage egos. Example, once you get below like 77 each rating point is secretly a 2 point drop and under 72 or something is a secret 3 point drop, etc. so no one has the "indignity" of being rated a 42 or something like that.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt

Unfortunately JP...its them trying to fit simulation into tourney..and make one game..which in the end does not make simulation...they give us some stuff but not everything...but to fix that would be allow total free editing...we could use Dan's and be able to play for "Madden years.." While the tourney community would get there even play..and random NFL player will not boycott the game

Oh man, when I mentioned today that I don't play the game because I am an offline franchise guy and I can't use my ratings because of the lack of ability to edit the rookies, things got really quiet. I didn't get a response to that comment.

Speaking of which, I for the life of me can't remember the names of the other 3 devs on the call. If they are reading this, sorry, but I am terrible with remembering names off the bat.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jet Sufferer

I wouldn't take the job or compromise one iota (unless you really need the money, lol). They may just want you for "sim cover", and then just release the same game they always do. As far as the deviation and hurt player feelings, I always thought there could be a "secret sauce" to massage egos. Example, once you get below like 77 each rating point is secretly a 2 point drop and under 72 or something is a secret 3 point drop, etc. so no one has the "indignity" of being rated a 42 or something like that.

No I don't need the money. I am a business operations analyst full time so I can afford to do my site as a hobby. Granted, I want to be paid as a consultant (because of the time it would take), however. I would be fine if they released a Madden Sim version too. Some of the same features but with more Head Coach aspects added into it.

[charter04]

I really think the Prima Guys. Gibs and Farls and others like them are a big reason why we won't really ever see much of a change. I like those guys as people but, their approach is fully Madden ball. There are many, many just like that. The real Mut elite players and any of those type of guys. The sad thing is I believe this represents a much larger % of the Madden fan base than the ones who really want a real sim football game. Some of it is because that is just how Madden has been for a long time so the guys like that have gravitated to it and love that it's Madden ball.

All that to say this. Those type like running QB's that have at minimum 95 THP. They go into the rating and find the type of players they want. They want DE's with at least 90 spd and acceleration. 6'5 WR's that run at least 90 spd. Just all the over inflated stuff that I hate. That is what they expect.

They are fully on board with a MUT team where every player is 95 overall or higher.

They run the same play over and over and over if it works. It's all about wining and Madden ball.

I really believe that the gameplay and real data driven ratings game a lot of us want will never happen in Madden because of the uproar of the guys like I'm referring too and casuals that just want to use their favorite team to win every game.

We like to think that the GC'ers will make a difference. Some do but, guys like Farls are or have been GC'ers too. So EA can't just listen to sim style people.

The answer to me is to keep things as they have been for MUT and Online ranked mode. Go ahead and do the whole ratings release foolishness that they always have. But, add option in ranked to be in a sim grouping. Kind of like COD does with the hard core mode. Regular ranked and MUT can have the over inflated ratings that they always have. Sim can use the Data driven ones.

Then like I've already said in play now and CFM just give the option to play Default (like it's always been), Arcade, and Simulation modes.

You could also chose default rosters (if they want community voted rosters fine) and Simulation (Data based) rosters.

This is the only way we will ever get the game we want IMO.

[Jet Sufferer]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

No I don't need the money. I am a business operations analyst full time so I can afford to do my site as a hobby. Granted, I want to be paid as a consultant (because of the time it would take), however. I would be fine if they released a Madden Sim version too. Some of the same features but with more Head Coach aspects added into it.

Yes, we've been begging for "Madden Sim Version" going on 11 years now, I'm with you. I would only take the job if it's on YOUR terms, not some hybrid kind of using your ratings and risking your intellectual property.

Why WE can't have realism options is mind boggling. ONLY the twitchy/arcade player is being catered to and we are thrown a bone here and there. Why, why, why, not options for both? Sliders that WORK? I'll never understand what has gone on since the exclusive.

I think it's this search for the Holy Grail of the "casual gamer". Football is not a casual category.

There is a HUGE POOL of customers for the game BEFORE you go for the casual, they are called FOOTBALL FANS, and THEY have been the ones alienated by this game.

Make a FOOTBALL game, have the options to make it arcade, or hell, have the game arcade by default but give ME the option to play football. Not this "game" with a thin veneer of football around it and ZERO WAY for me to play sim football, which is EXACTLY what this game has been.

If Madden was a great FOOTBALL game it would sell 10 million out of the box before it touched it's first "casual". Anyone remember I believe it was Madden 09 commercials about playing Madden with your daughter?? Most daughters aren't interested in playing NFL Football. Someone tell that to EA's marketing department.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

I really think the Prima Guys. Gibs and Farls and others like them are a big reason why we won't really ever see much of a change. I like those guys as people but, their approach is fully Madden ball. There are many, many just like that. The real Mut elite players and any of those type of guys. The sad thing is I believe this represents a much larger % of the Madden fan base than the ones who really want a real sim football game. Some of it is because that is just how Madden has been for a long time so the guys like that have gravitated to it and love that it's Madden ball. All that to say this. Those type like running QB's that have at minimum 95 THP. They go into the rating and find the type of players they want. They want DE's with at least 90 spd and acceleration. 6'5 WR's that run at least 90 spd. Just all the over inflated stuff that I hate. That is what they expect. They are fully on board with a MUT team where every player is 95 overall or higher. They run the same play over and over and over if it works. It's all about wining and Madden ball. I really believe that the gameplay and real data driven ratings game a lot of us want will never happen in Madden because of the uproar of the guys like I'm referring too and casuals that just want to use their favorite team to win every game. We like to think that the GC'ers will make a difference. Some do but, guys like Farls are or have been GC'ers too. So EA can't just listen to sim style people. The answer to me is to keep thinks as they have been for MUT and Online ranked. Go ahead and do the whole ratings release foolishness that they always have. But, add option in ranked to be in a sim grouping. Kind of like COD does with the hard core mode. Regular ranked and MUT can have the over inflated ratings that they always have. Sim can use the Data driven ones. Then like I've already said in play now and CFM just give the option to play Default (like it's always been), Arcade, and Simulation modes. You could also chose default rosters (if they want community voted rosters fine) and Simulation (Data based) rosters. This is the only way we will ever get the game we want IMO.

Nailed it...and I cannot stand, if I may say here without getting in trouble, if so, I will edit this post, but Gibs and Farls, IMO, are hurting this game with their pure tourney, lack of football knowledge approach to football...
I have been on their forum and tried to get into football talk and realism and I am totally ignored..Because OS is into the freedom to engage in football talk and not just football as it is related to madden arcade football, is why this forum is the tops..

Gibs and Farls reminds me of Wayne's world - 2 guys in a basement..

[4thQtrStre5S]

I will give madden some credit here to realism...In at least the base formations, the CPU does pick up the mike, and if the mike attacks the LOS the center will take him and the OL will pick up blocks from the center out as they should, and if the mike drops in cover the center will double team the DT with the guard..

I assume this is influenced by Clint.

[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

I will give madden some credit here to realism...In at least the base formations, the CPU does pick up the mike, and if the mike attacks the LOS in the center will take him, and if the mike drops in cover the center will double team the DT with the guard.. I assume this is influenced by Clint.

So we are now praising games for doing what they are supposed to do? The divide between madden and football is bigger than any sports game out there.