The Madden Football Game

[4thQtrStre5S]

We have all had our complaints about what Madden is or is not; but in the end we have to realize that Madden is a game that is trying to bring the user into the game and make the user the determining factor...

Anyone, within the EA/Tiburon ideology for the game, can take any team and be competitive; that is what I see and believe is the intent..I can point out issues with ratings and game play, but in the end, the game is exactly as it should be, in relation to any other game, it is a USER determined outcome game...

Hopefully we will see some help in better A.I., but please refrain from complaining if you are getting beat by out patterns during the 2 minute game, for example, yet you refuse to switch to user a flat zone defender...

Madden will always be about user input...

With that, what would people like to see in Madden to make the user input easier on field?

One thing I would like is a better way to switch players after the ball is snapped..As we know, prior to snap, we are capable of scrolling effectively through players, but after snap we are set to select the player closest to the ball, which is not always reliable..I would like to see a better system in this regard, but not sure how it would work..

[Dr Death]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

One thing I would like is a better way to switch players after the ball is snapped..As we know, prior to snap, we are capable of scrolling effectively through players, but after snap we are set to select the player closest to the ball, which is not always reliable..I would like to see a better system in this regard, but not sure how it would work..

I would agree that a much more reliable ability to switch players would be welcome. And I would add that it seems, to me, that EA is making Madden for casual gamers. People who buy the game, play it for a couple of months and then move on.

The sad thing is that if they addressed the hard-core sim players, word of mouth would spread like a wild fire and everybody would be into the game, not just casual gamers. Why they ignore things that sim players want and seemingly cater to the casual player is beyond me.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Death

I would agree that a much more reliable ability to switch players would be welcome. And I would add that it seems, to me, that EA is making Madden for casual gamers. People who buy the game, play it for a couple of months and then move on. The sad thing is that if they addressed the hard-core sim players, word of mouth would spread like a wild fire and everybody would be into the game, not just casual gamers. Why they ignore things that sim players want and seemingly cater to the casual player is beyond me.

What things do you feel like they are ignoring as far as the gameplay? I think I know what most people want in CFM.

[Dr Death]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

What things do you feel like they are ignoring as far as the gameplay? I think I know what most people want in CFM.

How about formation subs, which were in NCAA??? How about realistic sidelines, actual working penalties, crowds that are realistic, announcers who sound like they are actually watching the game that you are playing.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Death

How about formation subs, which were in NCAA??? How about realistic sidelines, actual working penalties, crowds that are realistic, announcers who sound like they are actually watching the game that you are playing.

Most of that isn't gameplay related and none of that is being ignored. Also, you didn't give a very specific answer, what is a realistic crowd? What about realistic sidelines? That can mean a number of things.

[Dr Death]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

Most of that isn't gameplay related and none of that is being ignored. Also, you didn't give a very specific answer, what is a realistic crowd? What about realistic sidelines? That can mean a number of things.

It's all about being immersed in the game, something that has been lacking for quite a while. You know what realistic crowds and sidelines look like... players paying attention to the on-field action, or going over things with coaches, crowds with females, signs and/or banners, sections where fans of the opposing team are at, etc...

It's having that feeling of being totally immersed in the game. And when you see the sidelines in Madden and see a guy wearing the number 19 standing there, even though he's on the field as one of your starters, it's things like that lack of attention to detail that just takes you out of being immersed.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

We have all had our complaints about what Madden is or is not; but in the end we have to realize that Madden is a game that is trying to bring the user into the game and make the user the determining factor... Anyone, within the EA/Tiburon ideology for the game, can take any team and be competitive; that is what I see and believe is the intent..I can point out issues with ratings and game play, but in the end, the game is exactly as it should be, in relation to any other game, it is a USER determined outcome game... Hopefully we will see some help in better A.I., but please refrain from complaining if you are getting beat by out patterns during the 2 minute game, for example, yet you refuse to switch to user a flat zone defender... Madden will always be about user input... With that, what would people like to see in Madden to make the user input easier on field? One thing I would like is a better way to switch players after the ball is snapped..As we know, prior to snap, we are capable of scrolling effectively through players, but after snap we are set to select the player closest to the ball, which is not always reliable..I would like to see a better system in this regard, but not sure how it would work..

What I don't get is this false narrative that it's all or nothing somehow, sports games have been offering a reasonably complete experience before, after and during the time Madden hasn't. OP I see you and others spout this notion quite a bit in one way or another "it is a USER determined outcome game" as if that somehow justifies Madden's approach to it or as if that is the only or even best approach but it's clearly not. Madden doesn't exist in a vacuum, when reasonable people have an issue with the way things are handled in Madden, most times it's based on seeing the same thing done better in other video games where "it is a USER determined outcome game" too.

As far as the question in bold, making everything applicable function as NFL realistic as possible could make user input easier on the field. The more real world context, the better a User can apply critical thinking for success and adjustments, even down to determining if direct User control is the best option vs delegation. Deciding to delegate control to the AI is a kind of User control, just like when the User doesn't control the other 10 players on the field at any given time, so I don't understand how say choosing to directly control a DE pass rusher during a passing play and delegating the AI CB to attempt to make a play, takes away from a User determined outcome game.

In basketball games a User can choose to "player lock" meaning no matter what, they just control that one player or position on the court, while all their teammates are under AI control, even then they still have direct User control of play calling, subs, when to call for the ball, etc, so again, the notion that Madden can't or shouldn't offer various ways and levels of User control just because it's a User determined outcome game, is off base. In fact, which other sports games have demonstrated, it's better to create them where the AI can play itself and emulate real world play, then add/layer various User interaction capabilities and interfaces than trying to make a User based game where NPC AI is essentially just background and mundane.

Madden is supposed to be a User determined NFL simulation game, which is key because that's a team sport it's supposed to be representing, not to be confused or convoluted with some other type of game where 1v1 is paramount and team is secondary. Also to reiterate, I'm not referring to some Utopian futuristic concept in gaming, I'm basing these things on what other sports games have already done and continue to do.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

What I don't get is this false narrative that it's all or nothing somehow, sports games have been offering a reasonably complete experience before, after and during the time Madden hasn't. OP I see you and others spout this notion quite a bit in one way or another "it is a USER determined outcome game" as if that somehow justifies Madden's approach to it or as if that is the only or even best approach but it's clearly not. Madden doesn't exist in a vacuum, when reasonable people have an issue with the way things are handled in Madden, most times it's based on seeing the same thing done better in other video games where "it is a USER determined outcome game" too. As far as the question in bold, making everything applicable function as NFL realistic as possible could make user input easier on the field. The more real world context, the better a User can apply critical thinking for success and adjustments, even down to determining if direct User control is the best option vs delegation. Deciding to delegate control to the AI is a kind of User control, just like when the User doesn't control the other 10 players on the field at any given time, so I don't understand how say choosing to directly control a DE pass rusher during a passing play and delegating the AI CB to attempt to make a play, takes away from a User determined outcome game. In basketball games a User can choose to "player lock" meaning no matter what, they just control that one player or position on the court, while all their teammates are under AI control, even then they still have direct User control of play calling, subs, when to call for the ball, etc, so again, the notion that Madden can't or shouldn't offer various ways and levels of User control just because it's a User determined outcome game, is off base. In fact, which other sports games have demonstrated, it's better to create them where the AI can play itself and emulate real world play, then add/layer various User interaction capabilities and interfaces than trying to make a User based game where NPC AI is essentially just background and mundane. Madden is supposed to be a User determined NFL simulation game, which is key because that's a team sport it's supposed to be representing, not to be confused or convoluted with some other type of game where 1v1 is paramount and team is secondary. Also to reiterate, I'm not referring to some Utopian futuristic concept in gaming, I'm basing these things on what other sports games have already done and continue to do.

I definitely see a need for improved A.I., I was merely pointing out that there needs to be a point of user control in determining an output on any given play..

Most surely, every A.I. controlled player should perform to their assignments, but, as a game, shouldn't the player assign the assignments?