Should the Calvin Johnson Rule Be 'In The Game' (Madden 15)

[capa]

No.

We don't need a new animation for this. As others have said, let them get the basics correct first instead of wasting time and resources on an animation that could occur a few times a season.

Too much work to do on replays, challenges, players with no sideline awareness, FBs trying to run around end on a dive play, QB accuracy, sacks, etc.

C

[brandon27]

Quote: Originally Posted by adub88

I hate to be that guy, man we need some of the basic penalties to be put in the game. I still haven't see a pass interference call in M15.

This.

If they cant even get basic penalties right such as DPI... why are we worried about the process of a catch rule at this point? How are they going to implement an animation of a guy going to the ground and bobbling a pass. In Madden, it's as simple as it's a catch. A Drop(aka pass bounces off WR or DB), or an overthrow.

Now if we got those things working as they should, then yes, lets explore the option of finding a way to make this work with better player/ball physics.

[roadman]

Eh, don't even start with me on penalties.

I'm beating a dead horse, and I'm looking at you DPI.

Hasn't even been implemented since I don't know when.

[NC12]

All we really need is for 2K to be able to make a game

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by brandon27

This. If they cant even get basic penalties right such as DPI... why are we worried about the process of a catch rule at this point? How are they going to implement an animation of a guy going to the ground and bobbling a pass. In Madden, it's as simple as it's a catch. A Drop(aka pass bounces off WR or DB), or an overthrow. Now if we got those things working as they should, then yes, lets explore the option of finding a way to make this work with better player/ball physics.

This right here touches on the point I was trying to make earlier, instead of the knee jerk reaction of "should the CJ rule be in the game", it should be "why aren't moments like this possible in the game". If there were an actual process to making/securing catches in Madden, meaning completely separate ball physics, catch variety, etc, like in other past football games, then adding the CJ rule would be as simple as expanding the officiating AI to recognize this type of moment.

Like others have mentioned, this is very similar to the David Tyree catch from the past, among other things, where EA/Madden/Maddenites knee jerk reaction is "get that real life moment in the game" as an one off addition instead of fundamentally improving the framework of the game so those type of things are possible. Then, circa the DT catch, the game ends up with that event triggering with very little to no context, making it stale and annoying, eventually getting it removed or becoming yet another legacy issue.

[RickyAC]

No, we shouldn't be shoehorning in an event like this.

Wide Receiver/Defensive Back interactions (from which we should get *USER EFFECTED* DPI, OPI, Holding, etc) which bring a visceral ""Fight For Every Ball!!" gameplay effect, are the most important need.

After that is the well done TruStep system for ALL 22 players "!ALL-22 TRUSTEP!! MOVE LIKE A PRO!!", with a full and effective set of animations and gameplay mechanics

After that is fully modeled football physics, so we get realistically crazy bounces and ball velocity. ( I think that the hyperaccuracy issues could be better corrected with a spearheaded attack of:

1) Bringing pass velocity down with !REAL WORLD Ball Physics!!!
2) Making footwork from a QB more important
3) The aforementioned WR/DB interaction system
4) Tweaking AI QB programming to release panicked passes (and throw it away occasionally)

rather than just making the AI dumber through sliders.


When,and only when, all those are corrected can we be thinking of adding unique moments like the CJ rule to gameplay. Those moments MUST be both rare, and built on a quality infrastructure, so that they remain exciting, and not just annoying feature-glitches.

[rudeworld]

Quote: Originally Posted by RickyAC

No, we shouldn't be shoehorning in an event like this. Wide Receiver/Defensive Back interactions (from which we should get *USER EFFECTED* DPI, OPI, Holding, etc) which bring a visceral ""Fight For Every Ball!!" gameplay effect, are the most important need. After that is the well done TruStep system for ALL 22 players "!ALL-22 TRUSTEP!! MOVE LIKE A PRO!!", with a full and effective set of animations and gameplay mechanics After that is fully modeled football physics, so we get realistically crazy bounces and ball velocity. ( I think that the hyperaccuracy issues could be better corrected with a spearheaded attack of: 1) Bringing pass velocity down with !REAL WORLD Ball Physics!!! 2) Making footwork from a QB more important 3) The aforementioned WR/DB interaction system 4) Tweaking AI QB programming to release panicked passes (and throw it away occasionally) rather than just making the AI dumber through sliders. When,and only when, all those are corrected can we be thinking of adding unique moments like the CJ rule to gameplay. Those moments MUST be both rare, and built on a quality infrastructure, so that they remain exciting, and not just annoying feature-glitches.

Although implementing all these things into the game will make it feel like real football but that is not (IMHO) what EA is aiming to do. I believe they are straddling that line of arcade/sim. If they go too sim they will lose buyers, and that goes the other way too. I'm on the pick one and go with it side, that's why I'm kind of fed up with madden.... They have some things in and something's that are missing that should be in....it doesn't make sense and they won't continue to get my cents.

[RickyAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudeworld

Although implementing all these things into the game will make it feel like real football but that is not (IMHO) what EA is aiming to do. I believe they are straddling that line of arcade/sim. If they go too sim they will lose buyers, and that goes the other way too. I'm on the pick one and go with it side, that's why I'm kind of fed up with madden.... They have some things in and something's that are missing that should be in....it doesn't make sense and they won't continue to get my cents.

You're undeniably correct that EA is not aiming to capture a "real football" game. And from a narrow-minded business standpoint, keeping arcadey gameplay and wringing money from MUT is the way to go.

I continue to hold out on the foolish dream that EA will try to really capitalize on the NFL brand, try BIG things in the gaming marketplace, and find a way to make both a satisfying game AND piles of $$$.

I think that a realistic (but also viscerally fun) gameplay foundation is essential, which is why I listed all the detailed Simulation-types of improvements.

But, there's no reason not to have more fun with that realistic foundation. Slider tweaks to a proper foundation could create a game with the high-flying but predictable events to keep the tournament guys thrilled (because I have a hunch that a dash more football strategy depth and satisfying gameplay would keep the online guys addicted longer, and paying MORE in MUT)

I would push the simulation gameplay so that I could package Madden more often with other NFL products like All-22 footage through NFL GameRewind, online streaming packages like GamePass.

There might also be money to be made by combining Madden with gamer's real Fantasy Football teams (and perhaps successfully selling Madden to current FF players) by setting up a Fantasy Draft feature, with a Create-A-Team to turn fantasy football league rosters/teams into Madden rosters/teams, and letting players subsequently play out their fantasy football games before or after the real games.

I don't see why a brilliantly built (in terms of physics, body interactions, animations, and AI) football game couldn't also be turned into a CFL game for another few easy bucks. While we're at it, let's take the same amazing fictional Madden core and evolve it into a proper Rugby game to sell in Australia and the UK.

Of course, all this must be marketed correctly, but marketing can't overcome a weakly built core product in the long run. And if I were EA, I'd want to turn as much cash on the current popularity of the NFL as I could. I don't understand the lazy complacency with sport's most valuable property.

I really just want EA to make a football product that's so great that I don't have to second guess giving them my money.