Madden's Explanation of ACC and SPD is INCORRECT!

[DCEBB2001]

All,

In light of the new thread regarding EA's explanation of attributes in Madden, I would like to contest their explanations for ACC and SPD based off of some research I have been conducting in the matter for several months. What you are about to read is a bit lengthy, but to tie it all together, the detail is necessary.

BACKGROUND:
According to EA's recent post regarding attribute definitions, ACC is "how quickly a player achieves his full speed". SPD on the other hand, is defined by EA as "how fast a player runs after fully accelerating".

To understand these definitions simply, think of acceleration as the duration of time it takes for the player to go from a full stop (where acceleration and velocity are equal to 0) to where the player has maxed out their velocity (velocity is the maximum determined by their SPD rating).

This explanation leads us to believe that the ACC ratings and SPD ratings are seemingly independent of one another. We would posit that a "Player A" with an ACC rating of 50 and SPD rating of 99 would reach the maximum velocity defined by the 99 SPD rating at the same time as another "Player B" with an ACC rating of 50 and a SPD rating of 0. This is because, according to the definition by EA, the ACC rating only determines how quickly you get up to top speed.

Contrarily, the SPD rating only determines the maximum velocity once the acceleration phase is completed. In this example from above, Player A's top velocity would be faster than Player B's top velocity because Player A has a higher SPD rating (99 compared to 0). However, because both players have the same ACC rating of 50, both players would reach their top velocities at the same time.

If the ACC rating was not the same for these two players but the velocity was, then we would expect different results. Let's assume that Player A now has an ACC rating of 99 and a SPD rating of 50. Let us also assume that Player B has the same SPD rating of 99 but now has an ACC rating of 0. What we would expect is that Player A would reach the maximum velocity defined by the SPD rating equal to 50 much quicker than Player B who would reach the same maximum velocity but much more slowly.

To sum this all up, if two players have the same ACC rating, they will both reach their maximum velocities (defined by their SPD ratings) at the same time, regardless of what their SPD ratings actually are. If two players have the same SPD ratings but different ACC ratings, both players will have the same maximum velocity but will reach that velocity at different times.

TESTS:
In order to test this out, this past July CM Hooe and I were analyzed the effects of ACC and SPD variations on the 40 times that players ran in the game. Using default settings for SPD Threshold on All-Pro for Madden 25, we were able to conduct some tests.

To begin, CM Hooe uploaded some youtube videos showing players running 45 yards at various ACC and SPD rating values. You can find one of them here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=387BNzLhFZY

The players you see in the video are running with the SPD Threshold set to 50. This controls the variance in SPD for all players on the field at the same rate. The higher the threshold, the more variance between player speeds relative to one another. The lower the threshold, the smaller the variance. The setting of 50 is the "default" setting provided by Madden 25 out of the box.

At the snap of the ball, the test players ran straight "Go" routes down the field at full speed. They both took off at the same time and ran the same route and distance (45 yards). The only variables were the SPD and ACC ratings for each player. By counting the number of frames in the video I was able to map out each player's running path of the frames versus the distance covered. Then, I was able to convert the number of frames into the number of seconds using the frame rates of the videos (29.970029 frames per second).

RESULTS:
1. All players with the same ACC ratings, regardless of their SPD ratings, reach the 5 yard mark at the exact same time. A player with ACC=0 and SPD=99 reached the 5 yard mark at the same time as a player with ACC=0 and SPD=0. A player with ACC=99 and SPD=99 reached the 5 yard mark at the same time as a player with ACC=99 and SPD=0. This is proof that the ACC rating controls the first 5 yards of the player's run regardless of what the SPD rating is. If the ACC rating is the same for any two players, they will reach the 5 yard mark at the exact same time no matter what their SPD ratings are.

2. Speed ratings begin to affect the player's rate of acceleration between the 5 and 10 yard marks. The higher the SPD rating, the quicker the player will cover the distance between 5 yards and 10 yards from the starting point, even if the accelerations are the same. A player with ACC=0 and SPD=99 reached 5 yards in .97 seconds and 10 yards in 1.70 seconds. A player with ACC=0 and SPD=0 reached 5 yards in .97 seconds and reached 10 yards in 1.77 seconds. This means that the SPD rating starts to take control of the velocity and acceleration of the player between the 5 and 10 yard marks as this is when the velocities for both players begin to change after being constant in the initial 5 yards.

3. The upper bounds of acceleration and speed for Madden players is unrealistic. The fastest a player can run is when his ACC=99 and SPD=99. A player with these ratings will achieve 10 yards in 1.33 seconds and 40 yards in 4.20 seconds. The best time ever run in a 10 yard split going back to 1997 is 1.40 seconds. The best time ever run in a 40 yard split going back to 1997 is 4.16 seconds. Therefore, players in Madden can theoretically accelerate too quickly beyond what has been proven as possible for football players in ideal conditions. Furthermore, the players in the game cannot reach the 40 yard mark in a fast enough time to match the best 40 time run since 1997. In other words, players can potentially accelerate too quickly and yet still not be fast enough over the course of 40 yards.

4. The lower bounds of acceleration and speed in Madden are also unrealistic. A player with ACC=0 and SPD=0 will cover ten yards no slower than 1.77 seconds. This same player will cover 40 yards no slower than 5.97 seconds. The slowest times since 1997 for the 10 yard and 40 yard splits are 2.19 and 6.33 seconds. Therefore, players in Madden cannot be slow enough to match their real-life counterparts in Madden. Players in Madden accelerate too quickly and are too fast even at the lowest settings compared to what is really possible for an NFL player.

5. All players reach their maximum velocity no later than 40 yards. Some players reach their maximum velocity before the 40 yard mark, but no players reach it after this mark. Velocity is constant and ACC equals 0 for all players after this point. For players with ACC=0, regardless of their SPD rating, the segment from 35 to 40 yards has a constant velocity that is maxed out at whatever their SPD rating determines.

6. All players reach their maximum velocity no earlier than 25 yards. All players with ACC=99 stop accelerating no earlier than the 25 yard mark at their maximum velocity. From this point forward, the velocity will remain constant and the acceleration will remain at 0.

DISCUSSION:
What EA has essentially done is created a very narrow box to rate players' straight line movement. Players have upper and lower bounds for acceleration and maximum velocity that are not realistic. In Madden a player can accelerate quicker than what has proven to be possible, but yet, cannot move slower than what has been proven to be possible. In addition, EA has created a box in which acceleration can stop between 25 and 40 yards. The higher the ACC rating, the closer to 25 yards the acceleration will stop and velocity will remain constant. The lower the ACC rating, the closer to 40 yards the acceleration will stop and the velocity will remain constant.

Using real split times from real NFL players we can accurately map out how quickly a player accelerates, how quickly they reach their top velocity, and determine what their top velocity is. We can also determine the rate at which a player slows after reaching their top velocity. Contrary to popular belief, almost all players who run a 40 at an NFL combine or pro day actually reach their top velocity within their 40 yard dash. NFL players are amazing accelerators as they play a game that requires them to go from near motionless at the snap of the ball to a full sprint as quickly as possible. Their acceleration is a premium.

For instance, Chris Johnson in 2008 ran his 40 yard dash in 4.24 seconds with split times of 1.40 seconds at 10 yards and 2.41 seconds at 40 yards. Using this data, we can map out his run by graphing the relationship of time versus distance. Using a level 3 polynomial curve, we can map out his time versus distance very accurately.



When we take take the equation for this curve and differentiate it, we come up with an accurate map of his velocity curve.



What this curve tells us is that Chris Johnson reached a maximum velocity of 11.08 yards per second at the 3.34 second mark. He accelerated up to this point, then, began to decelerate before finishing his 40 yard run in 4.24 seconds.

In Madden, we can do the same thing using the same points from our tests.



A player in Madden with SPD and ACC maxed out to 99 each can only achieve a maximum velocity of 10.90 yards per second in 3.20 seconds. What this confirms is that players in Madden accelerate too quickly, yet, do not have a high enough maximum velocity to match real-life players.

What EA could do is use the real-life data over the course of the last 20 years to develop their parameters for ACC and SPD. The data can set the box to work within instead of using the game. This is a more logical methodology, in my opinion.

In theory, Madden could accurately map out every single player's acceleration and maximum velocity very accurately, then, map it out correctly in the game itself. Players in the game would move in a straight line no faster than what their real-life counterparts can. In this sense, Madden would become more accurate in representing player speed on the field. Other technical skills could be used to dampen these attributes and affect reaction times like AGI, RTE, AWR, PUR, PRC, MCV, etc. However, the fastest a player could move in a straight line would be set in stone based on their best 40 yard split times.

Another viable use for this would be determining how quickly a player DECELERATES after achieving their maximum velocity and then using this to determine their stamina ratings. A player who gets up to speed quickly then falls off sharply would have less stamina than a player who gets up to speed just as quick, but has a lower rate of deceleration after achieving their maximum velocity.

CONCLUSION:
In essence, the descriptions that EA gives for both ACC and SPD attributes are correct. ACC is determined by how quickly a player reaches their top velocity and SPD does determine their maximum velocity when the acceleration phase is completed. However, both are implemented poorly. Using EA's model, it would be possible for a player to run one yard in 0.25 seconds then crawl the remaining 39 yards at .00001 yards per second. In this case, the player reached their top velocity (4 yds/sec) in only .25 seconds but covered the final 39 yards at a very slow pace. This player would have a very high ACC rating because of how quickly they reached their top velocity, but their top velocity is extremely slow.

A better model for EA to use would be to accurately map out a player's split times then differentiate once to get the maximum velocity, then determine the player's INITIAL velocity since we determined that the ACC rating only independently affects the first 5 yards of the sprint; or how quickly they get going. Even more accurate would be to differentiate the velocity curve and determine the actual rate of constant acceleration. The higher the rate, the higher the ACC value. The picture below shows this for Chris Johnson in blue.



As you can see, Johnson's maximum acceleration is 3.70 yards per second and it continues to decline until his maximum velocity is reached.

Madden needs to do a better job of accurately determining the ACC and SPD ratings and they need to use real data to do it. It is not that hard of a process as long as you know a little bit about projectile motion and calculus. Please leave your thoughts on my findings and share your ideas.

Thank you.

Dan Berens
FBG Ratings

[majesty95]

OK, I'm not going to read the entire thing because it is was too lengthy. However, there is a flaw in your logic.

You are stating that both players will reach top speed at the same time which isn't true. Their rate of acceleration is the same but the length of acceleration is not. A 99 SPD guy will have a longer spectrum to hit top speed. Whereas a 0 SPD guy essentially starts out at top speed.

ACC relates to how long it takes to go from 0 SPD to 10 SPD for example. I think that would be equal for both a 10 SPD and a 99 SPD player if they had the same acceleration. The 10 SPD guy would top out while the 99 SPD guy would continue accelerating to top speed. The difference is when both guys have the same speed but differing ACC ratings. So a 99 SPD guy with 99 ACC will get to his top speed faster than a 99 SPD guy with 50 ACC because his rate of acceleration is faster. The 99 SPD guy will gradually gain a lead on the 50 ACC guy through each level of the spectrum up to full speed.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

OK, I'm not going to read the entire thing because it is was too lengthy. However, there is a flaw in your logic. You are stating that both players will reach top speed at the same time which isn't true. Their rate of acceleration is the same but the length of acceleration is not. A 99 SPD guy will have a longer spectrum to hit top speed. Whereas a 0 SPD guy essentially starts out at top speed. ACC relates to how long it takes to go from 0 SPD to 10 SPD for example. I think that would be equal for both a 10 SPD and a 99 SPD player if they had the same acceleration. The 10 SPD guy would top out while the 99 SPD guy would continue accelerating to top speed. The difference is when both guys have the same speed but differing ACC ratings. So a 99 SPD guy with 99 ACC will get to his top speed faster than a 99 SPD guy with 50 ACC because his rate of acceleration is faster. The 99 SPD guy will gradually gain a lead on the 50 ACC guy through each level of the spectrum up to full speed.

I would recommend reading the entire post before examining a "flaw". I did not say that both players will reach their top speed at the same time. The time it takes to reach top speed is dependent upon their ACC rating. That was one of the whole points of the analysis.

ACC for all players reaches 0 (where velocity becomes constant) between 25 and 40 yards regardless of the SPD rating. When they reach their maximum velocity is dependent upon their ACC rating, just as EA describes. If the SPD ratings for a player are equal, the ACC will control when a player reaches that top velocity. When the ACC ratings are equal, both players will reach their top speed at the same time, even if their top speed are different. For instance if both players have an ACC=0, both players will reach their top speed at the 40 yard mark. The maximum velocity for a player with 0 SPD is about 2.5 yds/sec. It will take this player 40 yards to go from 0 yds/sec to 2.5 yds.sec. Likewise, it will take a player with ACC=0 and SPD=99 40 yards to get up to 10.7 yds/sec. So despite the fact that they have widely different SPD ratings, both will not reach their top velocities until 40 yards. This, however, does not mean that the acceleration is the same for both players. It simply means that the time it takes to reach the maximum velocity is the same.

I cannot stress this enough. The ACC rating does NOT affect the rate of acceleration. It merely affects WHEN the acceleration STOPS and the velocity becomes constant.

[TMJOHNS18]

Kinda sounds like ACC does effect the rate of acceleration, if it determines when a player reaches max speed it would have to effect acceleration rate or else all players with the same ACC would have the same speed.

[tessl]

I look at acceleration when acquiring offensive and defensive linemen because I figure they get out of their stance quicker. Am I correct?

How does agility impact the speed at which a player moves?

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by TMJOHNS18

Kinda sounds like ACC does effect the rate of acceleration, if it determines when a player reaches max speed it would have to effect acceleration rate or else all players with the same ACC would have the same speed.

Well when I did the testing, it looks like it actually affects the velocity of a player by determining how quickly the player gets up to his SPD rating.

In the charts attached, I outline what Madden is doing. The first chart shows 2 players with the same ACC but different SPD ratings. The second shows two players with different ACC but the same SPD rating. I think of the ACC rating as a modifier of the SPD rating as it controls how quickly you get up to full velocity.

Compare this to real NFL players. The third chart shows Chris Johnson (Blue) v. Nick Collins (Red). Johnson gets up to his top speed of 11.08 yds/sec in 3.34 seconds. Collins got up to his top speed of 11.72 yds/sec in 3.88 seconds. This just goes to show you that the "fastest" player in the NFL as some erroneously dubbed him actually is a very good accelerator, but not the best at top velocity. If you extrapolate this out, Collins actually overtakes Johnson at the 5.30 second mark because his maximum velocity is higher and is stamina (rate of fall-off of top velocity) is lower.

[ABR173rd]

I'm still trying to get some clarification on this on every year I try to figure out what exactly the speed threshold does. So the speed threshold is set at 50- if I increase the speed threshold to 60 does that increase the separation between players with varying speed or decrease the separation?

[homeycool]

Quote: Originally Posted by ABR173rd

I'm still trying to get some clarification on this on every year I try to figure out what exactly the speed threshold does. So the speed threshold is set at 50- if I increase the speed threshold to 60 does that increase the separation between players with varying speed or decrease the separation?

This was a good write-up on the effects of speed threshold: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...explained.html