Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Quote: Originally Posted by Oblong

Ignorant posts like this is one of the main reasons I largely ignore this forum. Hats off to Divot and Onlooker for continuing to wade through this muck. Polling? They look at how users play the game. They get stats on what mode people play (online and offline). The numbers don't lie. In TW11, less than 1% of users played True-Aim mode (online or offline). The reason it was scaled back was because if you recall it wasn't available for p2p play because doing such caused camera sync issues. It was very complicated and far above your intelligence to even attempt to explain. As with the other stuff, rather than just line by line provide insight, I'll just say each is completely off-base. Users will draw conclusions after they've PLAYED the game rather than from the rants of someone who hasn't. I must say that when it comes to game design, things are far more complicated than what users think. Motion controls for example are completely new and uncharted territory (Wii is NOT Move or Kinect) so EA is basically designing the wheel with no past history to go on. Making a usable interface by compartimentalizing millions of unique user swings into a playable package is not something that can just be done with a snap of the fingers. I'll leave it that, ignore the coming attacks, and realize the more sensible visitors here will silently nod in agree rather than post something to be bullied over.

That was brilliant, besides being one of the patronizing posts of all time (to me and to this site), the name calling and your frank thoughts about this forum was just a breath of fresh air. But I'll agree with you about one thing, ignoring this forum is probably best for everyone involved because you obviously take offense to anyone who doesn't drink the EA wine. And you're a EA mod....enough said there. Lucky for you there are no ignorant posts made on that site (insert derisive laugh here)

Unfortunately the rest of your post is just more excuse making for EA. If the Move implementation was so difficult then don't introduce it (and advertize the hell out of it) until you at least make it playable, which it wasn't last year. If it takes an extra year then so be it. It's not like they have any real competition to worry about and have to rush it out. Don't mislead buyers, who shelled out an extra $100 for the Move just to specifically play TW12, and then put out a broken product. But I guess I'm too ignorant to even be questioning that.

As for true aim, well if this 1% figure (which I find very hard to believe) was true then what harm would there have been to keep it offline if online was a problem. The coding is in the game already. And a Dev just indicated to me today the option for the TW11 true aim will apparently be available (thank god) for TW13. So why do that if only 1% use it? But I guess my limited intelligence can't understand that.

Being this ignorant, and coupled with my limited intelligence, I don't know how the hell I managed to tie my shoes this morning

[Oblong]

Exactly the type of response I was hoping for, Seymour/Dan!

It's not fun when someone speaks to you in the manner I did. The reaction is to lash back and the important points of discussing the game itself get lost in the shuffle.

The point I was trying to make here is that is exactly how you come across much of the time when discussing the game, lashing out at EA. It doesn't generate a climate of 2-way discussion, nobody likes to be spoken to via ridicule and the EA guys by the nature of their job can't just lash back so they just pull away completely. I've seen it happen.

Most of the thoughts and ideas you have about the game I actually agree with you on. I should be one of your bigger fans as I've pushed hard for 5 years trying to get more sim-like functionality in the game for those who want it (and not at the detriment of the arcade crowd).

I was actually not unlike you about 10 years ago. Loved Links on the XBox and would go on the EA forums trashing the TW series. Back then the devs were nowhere to be found. When I learned there wouldn't be a sequel to Links I figured I needed to work on somehow getting the TW guys onboard with sim aspects. They finally started responding WHEN I BECAME MORE CONSTRUCTIVE in my criticisms. Now some 5 years of pleading and working on those relationships were are finally seeing a Links-like tempo swing among many other what I call victories.

Truth is we need each other if we want to continue moving TW in the right direction. Stay constructive, stop the ridicule and making up baseless theories on why things are so. (Which brings up another point, every headscratcher I've asked them about always comes back with a reasonable explanation on their side). The guys working on the game are passionate, work hard, have to make tough decisions that not all of them always agree on, and do want feedback from gamers.

Hopefully this exercise will have helped make the point I was after and that you'll join those of us seeking change through positive constructive criticism.

Obs

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Quote: Originally Posted by Oblong

Exactly the type of response I was hoping for, Seymour/Dan! It's not fun when someone speaks to you in the manner I did. The reaction is to lash back and the important points of discussing the game itself get lost in the shuffle. The point I was trying to make here is that is exactly how you come across much of the time when discussing the game, lashing out at EA. It doesn't generate a climate of 2-way discussion, nobody likes to be spoken to via ridicule and the EA guys by the nature of their job can't just lash back so they just pull away completely. I've seen it happen. Most of the thoughts and ideas you have about the game I actually agree with you on. I should be one of your bigger fans as I've pushed hard for 5 years trying to get more sim-like functionality in the game for those who want it (and not at the detriment of the arcade crowd). I was actually not unlike you about 10 years ago. Loved Links on the XBox and would go on the EA forums trashing the TW series. Back then the devs were nowhere to be found. When I learned there wouldn't be a sequel to Links I figured I needed to work on somehow getting the TW guys onboard with sim aspects. They finally started responding WHEN I BECAME MORE CONSTRUCTIVE in my criticisms. Now some 5 years of pleading and working on those relationships were are finally seeing a Links-like tempo swing among many other what I call victories. Truth is we need each other if we want to continue moving TW in the right direction. Stay constructive, stop the ridicule and making up baseless theories on why things are so. (Which brings up another point, every headscratcher I've asked them about always comes back with a reasonable explanation on their side). The guys working on the game are passionate, work hard, have to make tough decisions that not all of them always agree on, and do want feedback from gamers. Hopefully this exercise will have helped make the point I was after and that you'll join those of us seeking change through positive constructive criticism. Obs

I never launched personal attacks against other posters with my views and I never say those EA guys are %$#&%^$. I sometimes say the things that EA does are %&$#%@#. I keep my harsher criticisms for this board as this site has more sim related gamers who would agree on the many issues that plague the TW series. On the EA board I'm not nearly as nasty as I wanna be when I present my views on mind numbing decisions that EA makes and in the last week alone have gotten some invaluable feedback on queries I made to the devs on threads.

Whatever views people here or on the EA board have I don't take personally if i don't agree with them. ie: you like the Legacy mode so you must be ignorant and stupid. Divot asked what false promises they made and I simply stated my views which I think have merit in my eyes.

This is a site which discusses opposing views on video games so it's natural I would lash out at EA if I think they are making dumb decisions. It would make no sense to lash out at other posters here. I welcome the back and forth with people who disagree with me, you included, but not if it becomes an insult fest. That's not what this site is all about. I've had numerous battles with Divot over the years but neither of us resort to name calling (although I'm not very fond of his smiley faces he puts in almost every post to illustrate his displeasure).

If your point was to deliberately bait me as some psychological lesson to show me how EA feels about being criticized well then I fail to see the connection. I'm criticizing a game developer in things they have done, you are making it personal and do it in a patronizing manner.

If you thought my post was ridiculous, then feel free to say that and provide counterpoints. Like I said I welcome the back and forth. But to sprinkle in how ignorant and mentally challanged I am and others here are (and the site in general) because we are not EA cheerleaders, well that's the not the way to go about it constructively.

I do respect that you are one of the few guys over there who push the sim agenda and I don't hold grudges (but "I'm sorry" would be a nice gesture) or Divot and I would have put each other on ignore a long time ago.

[orthostud23]

This is the part that I don't understand when it comes to this game. I hear folks say that there are more "arcade" TW fans then compared to us "sim" gamers. Now with that said what more arcadish things can they incorporate to this game for them?? They can already control the ball in mid air and power boost so they hit the ball 400+ yards. So why is it so hard then to add some "sim" features that would grow the game more for them?

The swing tempo/arc seems like a step forward but its not that big of a step IMO over the last 5 years.

Oblong: I know I have played Links back in the days with you (LG gaming if I recall) and since you have played the game and have been down there for the community days then maybe you could shed some light on this. How many of these community day guys are looking for a "sim" type game??

[kickingguru]

I simply question whether the developers really do know who this game is appealing for. Every year the excuse for the lack of support is the disappointing sales. If that is the case every year, maybe a complete change in focus is needed. Casual gamers do not pick up a golf game. Only fans of golf pick up a golf game. This is not football, basketball, or even hockey. You are either a fan of golf or not a fan of golf. There is very little in between. To do things that try to "capture" people not interested in the sport will be an uphill battle.

The point about this is that I have never once played with some one in the last 10 years that raved about the "Story Mode". They only comment about that it is the slog you have to go through to get your character's attributes high enough. It is a mode that you give up on because you can't score low enough, or you breeze right through because you can score low. There is very little satisfaction you derive out of that. Maybe promote your "new" and improved "Story Line" much closer to launch, and give your base customers a taste of what they are craving at this point in the promotion process.

[1Rose]

Who is that African American gentleman in those videos?

I know that's not supposed to be Tiger Woods is it?

Do they even invite him to mo-cap anymore? That swing looks nothing like his and his player likeness gets worse and worse every year. They really need to reboot this series, or let someone else make it.

Can anyone honestly sit here and say they want to play as a child Tiger Woods? Seriously. Tired of all the gimmicks when tons of major issues continue to be ignored. Ball physics, pin placement logic, player models, club proportions, atmosphere, presentation, animations etc. are all STILL awful and have been for a while now. I think 2007 was the last time I saw a smooth golf swing in a TW game and 2011 was the peak graphically. They need to go back to using the facial scanning technology they were using from 2011 and before because now the player faces look really bad.

Seeing this game progress through the years makes me want to bash my head through a wall. For every step forward they always take two or three steps back.

[DivotMaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1Rose

Who is that African American gentleman in those videos? I know that's not supposed to be Tiger Woods is it? Do they even invite him to mo-cap anymore? That swing looks nothing like his and his player likeness gets worse and worse every year. They really need to reboot this series, or let someone else make it. Can anyone honestly sit here and say they want to play as a child Tiger Woods? Seriously. Tired of all the gimmicks when tons of major issues continue to be ignored. Ball physics, pin placement logic, player models, club proportions, atmosphere, presentation, animations etc. are all STILL awful and have been for a while now. I think 2007 was the last time I saw a smooth golf swing in a TW game and 2011 was the peak graphically. They need to go back to using the facial scanning technology they were using from 2011 and before because now the player faces look really bad. Seeing this game progress through the years makes me want to bash my head through a wall. For every step forward they always take two or three steps back.

Obviously opinions do vary and Tiger along with 4-5 other Pros such as Dustin Johnson were mo-capped....

[1Rose]

Well if he was, they did a horrible job implementing it into the game.