Aggressiveness = Bad animations.

[Rickster101]

Those some good observations you've made twism23, I really like your breakdown as to what you've seen reguarding the pursuit slider, good job on that I've pretty much agree with most of it.

I wanted to ask if you've made any serious roster edits as of yet because I'm still reluctant to proceed myself and if you have what results are you seeing?

I'm pretty much eye to eye on your obsevations and they're simular to what I'm seeing myself so we're sorta on the same page on your findings.

My problem is mainly dealing with the edits themselves, I just can't bring myself to do too many edits because of the fear of up off setting them for use in the Franchise Mode.

Also I wanted to say you guys really have a good discussion going on here I'm finding it very useful and informative and some of the solutions are really, really good so keep up the fine insights here guys they're quite good really.

Holla Back ya'll

[twism23]

Rickster101,

Like you, I haven't made any roster edits. Until I fully understand what the sliders do I don't want to start changing attributes. The reason being: I'm afraid to go through the seesaw affect in which you mentioned. . . move this slider now my Db's are too good . . .change this attribute now my db's are ok but the cpu cant pass . . . change the slider now the cpu passing is too good . . . change the qb attribute . . .etc, etc.

The sliders are difficult enough to figure out, so if I start throwing too many variables in I won't really know what I'm changing overall. I may start changing some attributes soon (just for db's/lb's), but I'll probably just do the best I can with sliders. I don't want to have to change attributes for all the hundreds of players, and then have to adjust the rookies every season to keep things consistant. However, if someone finds a clear formula I may bite the bullet. I'll keep posting any new 'revalations' i have with slider adjustments though.

I also have a question. Does anyone know if the catching slider affects the defensive catch ability? I think I'll leave my sliders the same and put cpu and human catching to zero and see how many interceptions occur, if any (I know the receivers wont be able to catch for sh*t but I want to know if it affects catching on the defensive side.)

[HMcCoy]

First, I wanna' thank all of the guys trying these differnt rating changes...Its very tedious and I appreciate the input.

Second. One word...INCONSISTENT.

The most frustrating thing about these edits is that one game everything looks beautiful, the DB's are doing what they are supposed to, stats are great. Next game, DB's are getting completely twisted around for no reason, still making ridiculous catch attempts, stats are way off.

The only thing I know for certain at this point is that lowering AGG aleviates some of the bad animations, but there is no cure. Bad DB play is hard coded to some extent and thats just the way it is. I had one play where the CPU threw a sqare out and my zero AGG Sam Madison jumped the route but turned the wrong way on the catch animation. At the same time my 30 AGG Sammy Knight comes over and tries a diving catch 5 yards behind the play, allowing the WR to turn a 5 yard out into a 40 yard score. This is insane.

As far as the WR's go, there is a "hold on to the ball" rating, but in two games, I haven't seen a noticable difference in drops between a 99 rating and a zero rating. I put Chambers at zero and Boston at 99, and haven't seen alot of difference yet.

So far, Ive been doing all this in the name of immersion. Nothing pulls you out of that "real game" feel like a horrible glitch. I'ts good to know that if this doesn't work out, at least the default gameplay is still deep and satisfying, but its like having a perfectly manicured lawn with a big, dry, dusty patch that no matter how you fertilize it, grass won't grow. Very annoying.

I will say that I've been thinking about consistency. The manual explains that consistency governs how often the players play up to their ability. To me, this translates into a maxed out consistency rating meaning that 100% of his play will be at whatever levels his ratings are at. My next step may be to max the DB's consistency, so the ratings will all have maximum effect, all the time.

Back to the drawing board.

[Rickster101]

"I also have a question. Does anyone know if the catching slider affects the defensive catch ability? I think I'll leave my sliders the same and put cpu and human catching to zero and see how many interceptions occur, if any (I know the receivers wont be able to catch for sh*t but I want to know if it affects catching on the defensive side".)

You know twism23 this is something I've thought about for sometime and it seems that the folks at VC have not givin a real detailed explanation as far as what positions they were referencing to mainly the WR's and the DB's they both catch actually but whats confusing is in what way?

The attribute is universal to all players but effects them differently I believe, and the margin between a WR and a DB must be so slim that its almost impossible to really define the catch for the two positions therefore I'm under the impression that those two inparticular are very simular if not the same, as far as that attribute goes because they both would use that attribute during gameplay perhaps in the same fashion.

Which leads me to believe that if there was one attribute I'd change for the DB's that "Catch" would be on my list as one to be tested along with others that I believe you guys they call "Doc McCoy" and "baa7" mentioned.

Holla Back ya'll

[Rickster101]

Gee HMcCoy or "Dr. McCoy" I'm not following you on the WR thing pretaining to their consistacy, that relationship between the QB and WR is so weird that its difficult for men to get a firm grip on due to the fact that their all so different and unique then toss in the over the top DB's and its all a mess that you've done an excellent job combating with your work on the edits.

However I haven't advanced as far as you have in doing edits but it seems almost radical to assume that there are so many flaws in the attributes alone that it would require such a radical change. I am in favor of a more universal edit effecting only those gameplay issues I'm seeing and observing primarly the over the top "aggressivness" by the DB's other than that I'm really not having too many problems.

Holla Back ya'll

[twism23]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickster101

" The attribute is universal to all players but effects them differently I believe, and the margin between a WR and a DB must be so slim that its almost impossible to really define the catch for the two positions therefore I'm under the impression that those two inparticular are very simular if not the same, as far as that attribute goes because they both would use that attribute during gameplay perhaps in the same fashion.

The thing that confuses me about VC's logic is if the catching slider DOES affect both wr and defensive players then whats the point of having the interception slider. Also, if the catching slider is for offense and the interception slider is for defense, how do they interact with each other? If they are both set to the same setting do they simply cancel each other out and then everything is based on the players attributes? 5 pages later and we've barely to scratched the surface . . .

[Rickster101]

Actually the definition given for the "Catch" slider says that it "controls how reliably recievers catch the ball". So that left me thinking it must only apply to the offense and not only WR's but anyone who is playing under the guise of a reciever as in WR's, RB's,TE's, and any other player with the responsibility for pass catching and basically "recievers" are considered offensive positions so I'm assuming they ment that for more or less for the offensive recievers only.

But it does seem to have an effect on DB's , just how I'm not sure but it should be for the offensive players per its definition and I saw no mention referencing to defense just recievers generally I'm assuming on the offense and the positions I listed.

Holla Back ya'll

[globalbeats7]

Quote: Originally Posted by HMcCoy

First, I wanna' thank all of the guys trying these differnt rating changes...Its very tedious and I appreciate the input. Second. One word...INCONSISTENT. The most frustrating thing about these edits is that one game everything looks beautiful, the DB's are doing what they are supposed to, stats are great. Next game, DB's are getting completely twisted around for no reason, still making ridiculous catch attempts, stats are way off. The only thing I know for certain at this point is that lowering AGG aleviates some of the bad animations, but there is no cure. Bad DB play is hard coded to some extent and thats just the way it is. I had one play where the CPU threw a sqare out and my zero AGG Sam Madison jumped the route but turned the wrong way on the catch animation. At the same time my 30 AGG Sammy Knight comes over and tries a diving catch 5 yards behind the play, allowing the WR to turn a 5 yard out into a 40 yard score. This is insane. As far as the WR's go, there is a "hold on to the ball" rating, but in two games, I haven't seen a noticable difference in drops between a 99 rating and a zero rating. I put Chambers at zero and Boston at 99, and haven't seen alot of difference yet. So far, Ive been doing all this in the name of immersion. Nothing pulls you out of that "real game" feel like a horrible glitch. I'ts good to know that if this doesn't work out, at least the default gameplay is still deep and satisfying, but its like having a perfectly manicured lawn with a big, dry, dusty patch that no matter how you fertilize it, grass won't grow. Very annoying. I will say that I've been thinking about consistency. The manual explains that consistency governs how often the players play up to their ability. To me, this translates into a maxed out consistency rating meaning that 100% of his play will be at whatever levels his ratings are at. My next step may be to max the DB's consistency, so the ratings will all have maximum effect, all the time. Back to the drawing board.

interesting thing about consistency....what if we max out ALL players consistency rating! this would lead to the players performing at the level of their ratings ALL the time....that would leave the games engine to create the see-saw gameplay game in and game out....you would still have bad and good games becuase i think the games engine sort of creates this by its ownright...but at least you wont have the dramatic see-saw effect of gameplay and stats game by game...this would especially be helpful for the AI, imo.