Add Depth to takedowns and clinch and this becomes the best MMA game ever

[iceberg3445]

The new striking mechanics are realistic and fun. The ground mechanics first introduced in UFC 2 are deep and engaging. The only remaining weak points are takedowns and the clinch.

Takedowns are greatly lacking in depth. Currently there are four options (minus the special options seen during low stamina events): single leg, double leg, single leg high, double leg high. Takedowns are either successful or not; defended or not. There is no scramble. There is no struggle or scramble.

Depth needs to be added to takedowns. For instance. Going to the ground shouldn’t be a simple successful takedown or defended takedown. There should be stages to a takedown, almost like the current submission game (but without the minigame). And the stages would be determined by the type of takedown, and when/if it is defended.

There needs to be MORE TD defense windows and subsequent TD position animations. Defending during different stages of a takedown should lead to more positions and opportunities to scramble for both fighters.

For example, if a fighter goes for a single leg takedown, the take down defense window options (and subsequent position animations) would be:

-defending very early in the window would result in a sprawl (this position is way too common in current game);
-defending early in the window would result in a push away or headlock position (push away is also too common in current game/ headlock position not available in current game);
-defending in the middle of the window would result in the over under/double under clinch (not nearly as common as it should be in the current game). Moving to from the initiated takedown to the clinch should also be an option for the fighter initiating the takedown, not just the one defending.
-defending late in the window would result in a standing and balancing on one leg position (not a position available in the current game but similar to the takedown against the cage position/quite common in real life)

-defending very late in the window can result in other new positions either standing/sitting, or on the ground. Positions that allow the fighter defending the TD to scramble back up to the feet.
-not defending or defending too late would result in a successful single leg takedown to half guard or side control, etc.

The scramble following the defended takedown would come from if/when the takedown was defended and the resulting positions that ensue; primarily either the sprawl, headlock, clinch, or standing one leg positions.

For example, as mentioned above, if a single leg takedown is defended later in the TD defense window, the fighters would end up in the standing one leg position (example below).


From here the fighter initiating the takedown would have control over the movement of both fighters (allowing them to push their opponent against the cage for example) and would use the grapple dial to:
-ankle pick and complete the takedown
-trip/sweep the opponent’s other leg to complete the takedown
-pivot or reposition the leg to complete the takedown
-complete single leg high/slam (for good wrestlers)
-drop down for a double leg (normal or high)
-release leg and move to clinch
-release leg and disengage
-throw weak punches
-etc.

From the balancing on one leg position, the defending fighter would have options to throw punches/elbows and use the grapple dial to:
-spin out and escape the takedown
-sprawl or reverse the takedown
-pull guard
-guillotine choke or other submissions
-escape into the clinch position
-throw a knee?
-etc.

This is just one example of many that would add significant depth to the takedown game. Shooting for a double leg would have different TD defense animations determined by if/when in the TD window the TD was defended.

Adding fragmentary animations, with different animations occurring after defending TDs during different stages of the TD window, would add a significant amount of depth and scramble to the takedown game that is on par with the depth seen currently in the ground game.

ALSO IMPORTANT, adding depth to the takedowns would make it easier for fighters to use takedowns to engage in the clinch, since the new striking mechanics make engaging in the clinch a risky endeavor.

I could write essays about improving the clinch, but my main complaint is that it is currently too difficult to engage opponents in the clinch because of the new/realistic striking mechanics make the “reach out and hug” clinch engagement animation disadvantageous. Therefore, playing as a grappler, especially a Greco Roman wrestler, is somewhat pointless in the current game.

Other issues with the current clinch mechanics are the lack of mobility while in the clinch, and that strikes are underpowered in many clinch positions (primarily in single collar). There is a surprising array of takedown/submission options from the clinch, but this is useless if actually getting in the clinch in the first place is risky and disadvantageous).

The easiest way to fix this issue would be making takedown-to-clinch animations far more common. The takedown against the cage animation was a good step in the right direction, but much more depth needs to be added before the takedown to clinch animations feel natural, realistic, and advantageous for grapplers in the game.

In addition to takedown-to-clinch animations, fighters should also be able to get tied up in the clinch without necessarily needing to use the analog stick to engage. It shouldn’t always require one fighter reaching out to grab their opponent (this is too dangerous and the animation is unrealistic IMO).

Don’t expect to see much in the way of changes to the takedowns/clinch for UFC 3, but these are things to think about for UFC 4 (or potential patches to UFC 3). If implemented, EA’s UFC would become the best and most realistic MMA video game franchise ever (my opinion of course).

(Also, if anyone can tell me how to attach gifs, please do. I have tons saved on my phone as examples)

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[WickeddMMA]

There's nothing else I want more then an amazing and fluid grappling system but I don't think the grappling will stay the same until they make UFC 4. I would love a grappling system that implements strength attributes, speed of guard passing , guard defense IQ, fighting for the takedown (like ufc undisputed 3), explosiveness how fast u shoot for the takedown and etc.

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[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by WickeddMMA

There's nothing else I want more then an amazing and fluid grappling system but I don't think the grappling will stay the same until they make UFC 4. I would love a grappling system that implements strength attributes, speed of guard passing , guard defense IQ, fighting for the takedown (like ufc undisputed 3), explosiveness how fast u shoot for the takedown and etc. Sent from my LGMS550 using Operation Sports mobile app

I agree. The changes I asked for, that I believe are needed to make the takedown and clinch games more realistic, would probably require a massive amount of time and manpower...so I don’t expect anything crazy until UFC 4.

That said, I hope that they can expand on the new takedown against the cage animation and possibly incorporate that into other takedowns in UFC 3.


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[WickeddMMA]

Yeah I'm expecting UFC 4 to be the complete MMA game we ever received with an in depth grappling system that will blow us away. UFC 4 should focus on building onto the career mode they made because an in depth career mode will build longevity for the series and creating a whole new grappling system that can be fast paced or a timed chess match like ufc undisputed 3 and fluid. Idc how long it takes to build the best grappling system, I'll wait.

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[TheGentlemanGhost]

It is a much need change, but I can wait...I have to lol.

But they can pretty much get rid of the sprawl they have now anytime. It should look more like this...


This is generally the sprawl position you see on any given fight. I'm glad once you move to the side position the strikes didn't seem to do as much damage though, that was wildly OP in UFC 2.

I definitely want to see various ways to still fight for the TD and defend it for longer periods of time too.



And I've really been waiting for TDAs that carry momentum that pushes you to the cage.



We really need something in-between the successful takedown and the takedown denial that let's us still fight for the takedown more often. But I'd also like the ground game from the bottom to also become less about reversals and more about just surviving and simply getting up by being given more defensive options.

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheGentlemanGhost

It is a much need change, but I can wait...I have to lol. But they can pretty much get rid of the sprawl they have now anytime. It should look more like this... This is generally the sprawl position you see on any given fight. I'm glad once you move to the side position the strikes didn't seem to do as much damage though, that was wildly OP in UFC 2. I definitely want to see various ways to still fight for the TD and defend it for longer periods of time too. And I've really been waiting for TDAs that carry momentum that pushes you to the cage. We really need something in-between the successful takedown and the takedown denial that let's us still fight for the takedown more often. But I'd also like the ground game from the bottom to also become less about reversals and more about just surviving and simply getting up by being given more defensive options.

I agree 100% with everything you said about TDS and TDD. We probably won’t see the added depth until UFC 4.

But it’s good to bring the issue up now, so game devs know where to focus moving forward


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[bram]

Finally, after the striking and ground game the clinch and TD will make this a well rounded game

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by bram

Finally, after the striking and ground game the clinch and TD will make this a well rounded game

Honestly, the takedown against the cage animation in UFC 3 is a big deal. Finally strong grapplers can use takedowns to clinch and control their opponent while standing.

The clinch is still very clunky and disadvantageous in this game. The clinch engagement animation is dangerous in this game because it opens fighters up to straights/jabs/elbows. Plus you have to stand directly in front of people to actually grab them. More takedown to clinch animations/options would fix this.

The overall clinch mechanics are still very clunky, and takedowns are too linear and lacking in depth, but I think the game devs are going in the right direction.

The striking in this game is unparalleled. The ground game is very deep. Once the takedown and clinch mechanics are given depth and fluidity, this game will bypass UFC undisputed 3 as the best MMA game ever.


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