The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

[jake19ny]

Just an op-ed piece here and I would love any feedback on it.

After spending time with the NHL 20 trial I have discovered the single greatest problem with the game and the series. I won’t be breaking any new ground here as many of us have complained about it for years but after a lot of thought I believe the problem is the biggest and if they ever corrected it would dramatically improve this very flawed game.

First of all those who know me from the forums know I’ve been around awhile and have plenty of gripes about the series. Many of you offline hardcore sim guys share those gripes as do some online players. I’m going to list them anyway.

Brain dead AI
Lack of player separation
Legacy issues
No Roster Share
Lack of board play
Lack of Neutral Zone play
Special teams play all wrong
Idiotic commentary
Lack of stat overlays
Lack of penalties

I’m sure I’m forgetting a few but that will do.

Occasionally I reflect on my position on the series and wonder if I’m being to hard on the game. It is NHL hockey after all....the fastest and most high paced sport around where many things happen in split seconds. Surely it cannot be easy to duplicate it in a video game. So after playing the NHL 20 trial and seeing some good things but also seeing ALL of the old bad things I have decided I could live with all the bad things if they just fixed 1 thing........Player separation. ���� Boom right? “Hey no crap Jake thanks making us read this just to complain about something we already know”....but let’s look at it deeper because it’s been the sole problem that has ruined this game since it’s inception.

Let’s start with our wish for it to return to PC. I loved the game on PC and like many have pined for the days of NHL 2004 through 2009. The modding community was amazing. That said as I look back with all the mods and tools available the players all pretty much played the same and every team felt like every team.

Let’s examine our thirst for Roster Share, one of my biggest gripes. Why? Sure it makes getting better rosters faster. The revamped roster project was amazing and absolutely made the game better but in the end every player still pretty much played the same and every team felt like every team.

When you play against the Caps you should know you need to prepare for when Ovie is out there. You should know when he’s out there but you don’t. Until you see his name or signature shot (wow) you don’t know him from a 4th liner.

When you are skating down the boards in the corner against one of the top hitters you should know “I’m about to get plastered”....but you don’t you will most likely bump off him like you were hit by any of the other cones on defense.

When you play Tampa you should know your facing Valishevsky in net and that D is going to make it hard to enter the zone. Oh better be mindful of when their top line is out....but your not. Line 1 line 4 same thing same North South game.

How about squaring off with the Bruins? You should know it’s going be a grind fest and a lot of hitting but no....it’s just another game that feels just like every other game.

Now I haven’t played Madden in years that game lost me for other reasons. But I remember playing seasons on their and when I played the Patriots you knew you were facing Brady. You had to scheme to play him. Playing against a top CB don’t throw in that direction. A bull hard running back? Stuff the middle. A quick speedy RB? Watch the outsides. Michael Vick? Always....Always be ready for him to take off. Bottom line is when you played a specific team you knew it and felt like you were playing that team.

That’s what’s sorely missing from the NHL series. It’s why none of us can make it more than a month playing the damn game. It gets so boring and stale because every single player and as a result every single team feels exactly the same. I used to blame the lack of players separation on HUT but it’s honestly been in the game forever.
If they would only address this I believe I could live with many of this games flaws, still complain lol, but live with it because I think I would have fun.

Thoughts?

[Hushroom]

That's a lot of reasons! Lol but in all honesty yes, everything you listed are the reasons why this game is not going to be a buy for me.

Madden 20 made leaps and bounds this year as far as gameplay goes.
It seems NHL 20 made leaps and bounds this year as far as franchise goes.

Hopefully they can learn from each other for '21 and improve in the areas they need it.


Edit: My 1000th post!

[JayhawkerStL]

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring.

There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success.

As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game.

For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that.

There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games.

But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else.

At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play.

A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

[PeoplesChampGB]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring. There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success. As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game. For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that. There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games. But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else. At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play. A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

Except the fact that PS3 NHL played lightyears better than this gen. But you do you...……...

[sfpxgalaxy]

For the lazier ones, the single reason is "player separation".

I think we can all agree.

I would like to hear what devs have to say about this issue. Have they ever said anything about it ?
I have the feeling that their AI does not respond well to an increased player separation and that you end up with multiple breakaways and unrealistic odd man rushes.

Maybe it's just to please the online players ? Parity in online gaming is important so I guess it may be a factor.

[MizzouRah]

I would like them to incorporate the Madden trait system into the NHL series. I believe that would add the player separation we all want and crave.

Something like Ovi would have an x-factor for sniper or something which after 5 shots on goal or something (just an example) he gets a boost to accuracy and shot speed.

The Madden x-factor and superstar traits really enhance player separation, I completely have to change my play calling when someone like Aaron Donald's x-factor is activated.

Would be great to see a goalie like Ben Bishop have an x-factor activate when he stops a breakaway, making his side to side movement and glove saves quicker - or something like that.

[jake19ny]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring. There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success. As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game. For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that. There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games. But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else. At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play. A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

I did ask for people’s thoughts so thanks for sharing yours. Not sure I agree that our expectations are too high and we should just enjoy the arcade style game they release each year with minimal effort or just not buy it but fair enough....I will concede your point if EA drops the NHL from their product and just released EA Hockey. Don’t take the name of a major sports league and advertise your game as if it is to represent that league when your game plays in no way shape or form like the NHL.....don’t use actual NHL players and advertise them to sell your game when every player in the game is virtually one in the same. Remember for years EA sports used the motto “if it’s in the game...it’s in the game” but it never really was. Make a generic hockey game make it as arcadey as they want and then we won’t complain or write about it.

[Honome]

I think that this year the game is even worse. In fact it's the worse version of an EA hockey game that i played this generation.

The game is done for youtubers. Starting with the horrible new presentation and new commentary with a guy that screams for every ****ing play, is just impossible to play the game with that commentary.

And than we have the gameplay... Man, the gameplay in NHL20 is atrocious! It's almost like the game force you to play the same AI end-to-end style for the full game because the AI passing is absurdly unrealistic. There's absolutely zero reasons to dump the puck and try to enter the zone because the AI player will, as soon as he touches the puck, makes a "50-miles-backhand-between-the-legs" pass for the center of the ice always finding a free companion to go for a fast break attack. That happens EVERY SINGLE TIME! What the hell! Those people that made the game never even saw a real hockey game in their lives????

There's no difference between a balanced forehand pass and a damn "one-timer-backhand-between-the-legs" that the AI makes the full game. And that's the only way the AI attacks, pass-pass-pass-one timer, pass-pass-pass- one timer... It even makes the damn "one-timer-backhand-between-the-legs" pass while intercepting a pass!!!! And what about making the CPU pass to ZERO? That will solve the problem, right? Right? Of course not! It makes no difference if the CPU have the pass slider on ZERO or on 100 that it will play the game exactly the same and make exactly the same damn "one-timer-backhand-between-the-legs" passes during all the game!!!

After playing the trial for 3 or 4 hours i gave up and decided to play NHL19 again using the same small adjustments that i used for NHL20, lowered game speed to 2, CPU passes to 0, CPU interceptions to 50. And my god, the difference was astonishing! The NHL19 actually plays somehow remembering a little about hockey! We can dump the puck because the AI will almost never make the damn "one-timer-backhand-between-the-legs" pass, will do it sometimes but now even close to the speed and accuracy from 20. The AI will shoot with the defender, will try to score differently that pass-pass-one timer...

After playing NHL20 i am really thinking NHL19 enjoyable now... Maybe it's only because i am comparing to the terrible gameplay from NHL20. I hope that the game can be patched and somehow fixed before it enter the ea access vault next year, but i highly doubt that, the team already was very clear that the direction of the series have taken is much more youtubers side than simulation side.