NHL 15 Review (XB1/PS4)

[Inflict]

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiggy

Well, the PR campaign was more of an admission on their part that there was something to hide (negative stuff), which there was. That didn't directly correlate to score. Every review is in context. To say "expectations" shouldn't factor into it just doesn't hold water with me, as you're basically then talking about reviewing things in a vacuum. All genres of games are compared to their peers in the field. That is in expectation. If someone does something better, then I'm going to call a game out for not doing it as well. NHL has only itself to be compared to at present, and I'm not going to go into an isolation chamber and review a game and not acknowledge what it had done before. This is an existing brand. They don't just get to reboot and throw out everything that made the game enjoyable to so many. I agree with you that the gameplay is very good, and the presentation (mostly) delivers, but this game is about much more than those things. It only works if there are a suite of modes to enjoy it. UFC is not in that situation, as its gameplay is more pivotal since it's a one-on-one game. I expect it to have a better career mode, etc. next time out, but they nailed online play and most of the gameplay this time. Again, it is a first effort. EA MMA was five or six years before, which isn't relevant to this current franchise (made by an entirely different dev team). I agree that FIFA and Madden were more "port-ish" than NHL or UFC, but that doesn't mean that NHL should ship with scores of modes missing and basic features MIA. The whole product was mismanaged, and consumers deserve to be warned against such a cynical release. Again, I love the NHL series, but this one is missing a lot of what makes the brand great. I'm clearly not the only one to be saying this, and I'm not going to give something a pass when it's incomplete. Everyone brings some level of expectation and bias into a review, and to want tabula rasa every time is just not realistic, in my view.

This is not about reviewing a game in a vacuum, but for setting a standard for consistency so that reviews will hold up even a few years down the line. Sometimes it means looking at the bigger picture, and not just as a fervent fan or consumer. It is entirely your right to do so, so there is no argument from me on what you can and can't do. I am just personally not buying that there should be such a big discrepancy between NHL and UFC overall scores based solely on reviewing the game itself.

"They don't just get to reboot and throw out everything that made the game enjoyable to so many"

They've done this before with NHL 07's transition to the previous console generation. They've done it with PGA (PS3/XBOX360), the Sims (most recently), and multiple other brands. It's not unprecedented and the average consumer should have been more aware of this. Bad PR only exacerbated this expectation. A 2 year development cycle (mostly just one actually) for a new next gen game is not going to produce the same quality and quantity of modes as a last gen game from the previous year if it is built on a new engine. I would have been pleasantly surprised if they were able to pull it off however. I'm treading the same ground here, so I will move on.

"EA MMA was five or six years before, which isn't relevant to this current franchise (made by an entirely different dev team)."

This is a contradiction to your previous point about not reviewing in a vacuum and comparing games to their peers and previous iterations. UFC should not be immune to this criticism when NHL isn't. Regardless of when the previous game came out, it's something that it should be compared to if we are to subscribe to your same views when reviewing NHL 15 on next gen. Consistency is my sole issue here. Also, IMO, first year next gen exclusive games (exclusive in the sense that the game uses a completely different engine then it's last gen counterpart) like UFC and NHL is a better comparable then using the last game in the series. I believe that a review of NHL 15 should reflect the new development cycle (a la UFC), not building upon an existing framework like Madden and FIFA did. Speaking of Madden and FIFA, I would also like to respond to this:

"I agree that FIFA and Madden were more "port-ish" than NHL or UFC, but that doesn't mean that NHL should ship with scores of modes missing and basic features MIA. The whole product was mismanaged, and consumers deserve to be warned against such a cynical release."

I agree completely that everyone should know what is missing from last year. I do not want to censor that in anyway. I just think that it's unfair to say missing modes is mismanagement unless you subscribe to the philosophy that they should have gone the FIFA/Madden route (port and update) or think they should have taken another year off to polish and add more modes. Those are valid criticisms. I just think the hate is misdirected at the development team due to their uninformative PR campaign and lofty expectations from fans. Could they have gotten more modes in with better management? Possibly, but we will probably never know. I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that they got in what they could in the time given.

"Everyone brings some level of expectation and bias into a review, and to want tabula rasa every time is just not realistic, in my view."

This is the main point we disagree on and we are not going to change our minds on this. Let's just end this here and let me conclude by saying that I agree with a lot of your criticisms and praises, just that the review score is reflecting a view that does not take into effect that this is a new development cycle and, IMO, should therefore be compared to other games that start from (almost) scratch. UFC was given the same treatment and I think NHL deserves that too.

[Inflict]

Or neither deserve that treatment. That works for me too.

[Wiggy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Inflict

This is not about reviewing a game in a vacuum, but for setting a standard for consistency so that reviews will hold up even a few years down the line. Sometimes it means looking at the bigger picture, and not just as a fervent fan or consumer. It is entirely your right to do so, so there is no argument from me on what you can and can't do. I am just personally not buying that there should be such a big discrepancy between NHL and UFC overall scores based solely on reviewing the game itself. "They don't just get to reboot and throw out everything that made the game enjoyable to so many" They've done this before with NHL 07's transition to the previous console generation. They've done it with PGA (PS3/XBOX360), the Sims (most recently), and multiple other brands. It's not unprecedented and the average consumer should have been more aware of this. Bad PR only exacerbated this expectation. A 2 year development cycle (mostly just one actually) for a new next gen game is not going to produce the same quality and quantity of modes as a last gen game from the previous year if it is built on a new engine. I would have been pleasantly surprised if they were able to pull it off however. I'm treading the same ground here, so I will move on. "EA MMA was five or six years before, which isn't relevant to this current franchise (made by an entirely different dev team)." This is a contradiction to your previous point about not reviewing in a vacuum and comparing games to their peers and previous iterations. UFC should not be immune to this criticism when NHL isn't. Regardless of when the previous game came out, it's something that it should be compared to if we are to subscribe to your same views when reviewing NHL 15 on next gen. Consistency is my sole issue here. Also, IMO, first year next gen exclusive games (exclusive in the sense that the game uses a completely different engine then it's last gen counterpart) like UFC and NHL is a better comparable then using the last game in the series. I believe that a review of NHL 15 should reflect the new development cycle (a la UFC), not building upon an existing framework like Madden and FIFA did. Speaking of Madden and FIFA, I would also like to respond to this: "I agree that FIFA and Madden were more "port-ish" than NHL or UFC, but that doesn't mean that NHL should ship with scores of modes missing and basic features MIA. The whole product was mismanaged, and consumers deserve to be warned against such a cynical release." I agree completely that everyone should know what is missing from last year. I do not want to censor that in anyway. I just think that it's unfair to say missing modes is mismanagement unless you subscribe to the philosophy that they should have gone the FIFA/Madden route (port and update) or think they should have taken another year off to polish and add more modes. Those are valid criticisms. I just think the hate is misdirected at the development team due to their uninformative PR campaign and lofty expectations from fans. Could they have gotten more modes in with better management? Possibly, but we will probably never know. I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that they got in what they could in the time given. "Everyone brings some level of expectation and bias into a review, and to want tabula rasa every time is just not realistic, in my view." This is the main point we disagree on and we are not going to change our minds on this. Let's just end this here and let me conclude by saying that I agree with a lot of your criticisms and praises, just that the review score is reflecting a view that does not take into effect that this is a new development cycle and, IMO, should therefore be compared to other games that start from (almost) scratch. UFC was given the same treatment and I think NHL deserves that too.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. And I get that there are some points we're going to disagree on.

I do have to correct your closing comments, as again, my review specifically did not target the devs. There were a few comments made with some puzzlement of missing features, but I placed the blame squarely on higher-level mismanagement. I am not targeting the devs because I understand some of the realities of game development.

As for EA MMA as compared NHL 07, it's my feeling that those are not alike whatsoever. I'm not contradicting with EA MMA, as that was taken into consideration, as well as the THQ games. I feel EA Sports UFC is a better game overall. Also, again, it's not continuing a brand. EA MMA was 6 years prior by another team. That's not year over year. Also, I didn't review EA Sports MMA (which got an 8 on our site, btw, so I don't really see anything wrong with a 7.5 for what I feel is a better game in terms of gameplay while maybe lighter on content to what EA MMA had).

NHL 07 existed in a different paradigm. There were no online leagues or sprawling feature sets. Not to mention, I don't recall that game being as gutted as NHL 15. Unfortunately, I wasn't around to review NHL 07, but it was not nearly as problematic considering the "expectations" of the time. It got a 7 on our site, which is what you've suggested NHL 15 should get. You're basically talking about a difference of a 1.5 points, and I feel NHL 07 was in a way different time (and it introduced the modern hockey game with the skill stick and wasn't as gutted).

To bottom line it: I think UFC is a better game in many ways, and that's why the review shook out the way it did. I have written a lot about the realities of development and user expectation, and I've tried to quell some of what you're referring to. In my opinion, NHL 15 went way past the line of acceptability for a reboot.

I feel the correct question to ask is: "Why wasn't the dev team given the time/resources they needed?" Ultimately, consumers shouldn't have to accept poor business practices like The Sims or Tiger or this year's NHL. How about not releasing every year? How about reallocating resources? There are many things they could've done.

Once again, it seems that you're asking for consistency, but you ultimately feel the game should score higher. Our rubric says that 5.5 is average. That's what I felt this game was (gameplay is above that, but it gets offset by the rest). I don't feel the lack of modes and ways to enjoy the game (and missing basic features) should just be ignored in the score.

If I had my druthers, we'd have a simpler score. In fact, no score would probably be best, as this is really sort of a silly argument altogether. The text is what matters.

I appreciate you responding, as these are fair questions to ask. I've constantly tried to use the whole scale, and it's one of those things where it's easy to look back and feel one way or the other. That's why the text has to articulate what the game does well and what it doesn't, and it has to serve all audiences, not just the folks in one play style.

[Nate99]

I love the graphics and physics of the game so far, my problem is the lack of basic features that have been in the EA version of NHL games for years. NO EDIT PLAYER!? Really? The only gameplay problem I see is the Cpu's style of hockey is to center the puck at all times through my terrible defenders (McDonagh and Girardi) who stand there and do nothing to stop the play. The cpu hardly ever shoot the puck resulting in horrible save percentage stats for the best goalie in hockey (Hendrik Lundqvist)

[GisherJohn24]

Quote: Originally Posted by RUFFNREADY

$$$$ - that's what they were thinking, and always thinking! They would sell you a lemon, and patch in controllers later! EA isn't in on the front end of anything anymore; they are in the back end waiting for a riot to breakout! I am sorry to say it but, EA is that average looking neighbourhood car dealership, with a sleazy salesman, that will sell you any eye appealing car, with no "Engine" (back seats, door handles), at major car dealership prices (New/full price). They will send you the steering wheel and brake pedal later on (in a patch)! Oh, and have a nice day; after you finish paying for it, before it leaves the lot! SMH as I LOL

I hate to admit but fir this case. Yes you're spot on

[HealyMonster]

Man not a hockey fan, would have never purchased this game, but when I saw the game had the bnc rights and were doing some new things presentation wise, I wanted to see how it ended up flushing out in the end. That led me to check out this review.

Seems like EA sports is a mess. If I had to call it, EA SPORTS seems to have held back the entire sports genre from moving forward since the start of the ps3/xbox360 generation. Every game they release seems to have massive issues, and quite frankly scea, 2k, while there are issues, it never seems to get to the point of easoorts games. THis isn't something that has been just the last year or 2. The last10 years have been a disgrace for this company and really they have made sports gaming something entirely different in terms of what to expect from a sports video game.

Considering it's not just NBA live having issues getting out a game that has features and works as intended, but madden, and nhl. These are franchises that have been putout yearly since the early 90's. Leadership at EA SPORTS has to have serious issues as considering its issue after issue withall of their premiere franchises, someone of importance over there is an idiot and lost.

This company is a disgrace, and someday we are all going to look back and remember these last 10 or so years as a black mark when EA was in control of everything. Sooner or later this is going to come crashing down on them. You can't offer up crap year after year and get away with it forever, sooner or later things will fall apart.

[Saint Iscah]

Quote: Originally Posted by HealyMonster

Man not a hockey fan, would have never purchased this game, but when I saw the game had the bnc rights and were doing some new things presentation wise, I wanted to see how it ended up flushing out in the end. That led me to check out this review. Seems like EA sports is a mess. If I had to call it, EA SPORTS seems to have held back the entire sports genre from moving forward since the start of the ps3/xbox360 generation. Every game they release seems to have massive issues, and quite frankly scea, 2k, while there are issues, it never seems to get to the point of easoorts games. THis isn't something that has been just the last year or 2. The last10 years have been a disgrace for this company and really they have made sports gaming something entirely different in terms of what to expect from a sports video game. Considering it's not just NBA live having issues getting out a game that has features and works as intended, but madden, and nhl. These are franchises that have been putout yearly since the early 90's. Leadership at EA SPORTS has to have serious issues as considering its issue after issue withall of their premiere franchises, someone of importance over there is an idiot and lost. This company is a disgrace, and someday we are all going to look back and remember these last 10 or so years as a black mark when EA was in control of everything. Sooner or later this is going to come crashing down on them. You can't offer up crap year after year and get away with it forever, sooner or later things will fall apart.

I agree......up until the last sentence. There are hundreds of thousands of people (millions in the case of Madden) that just go out and buy the game every year sight unseen. Then they spend hundreds more on packs in this "Ultimate Team" nonsense.

It will not change as long as the "drones" keep shelling out $60 on "day 1". It seems like w/ every EA Sports release there is some "major" problem. NHL 15 is probably the worst I have seen. Maybe NBA Live 14 was worse. But I dont play basketball games so I cannot speak to the issues with that game. I have just seen people reference it a few times as a real bad release.

EA will only respond to effects to their bottom line. Anything you hear about EA "listening" to their fans to make a better game is hogwash.

The only voice we as consumers have is via sales.

[SGMRock]

I would have expected this type of release if it had been released in 2013 for the Xbox One/PS4. FIFA and Madden managed to do it and yes they were not super great on the new consoles as far as graphics and such they still had all the same features the previous gen games did and a few more. The NHL team took that whole release off for the new consoles and yet still could not get in even half of their normal features.

I having fun with the gameplay I will say that seems solid. The new presentation is nice, the play by play is a bit dry though. I like the new team ok but you can tell they have not had time to get in a good amount of stuff there yet and smooth it out. At least what they have is good. No stuff like Madden 15 where the announcers constantly say the wrong things.

No player editor really burns me though, and the Be a Pro mode being back to the bare bones it was the first year they added it to the game makes my shake my head. They should have delayed this game 2 months at least so they could have added in the stuff they said they were patching in.

Next year if they add in all the features they left out to the gameplay they have this year and beef up the play by play a bit I will be very happy with NHL 16.