NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

[bwiggy33]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJ

NHL 2K7 and NBA 2K7 were the reasons I bought my 360. I wasn't a fan of 2K8's controls so I switched to EA's game and never went back. I can still enjoy the NHL series but there needs to be serious improvements made to CPU AI, HUM teammate AI and presentation as we head into the PS4/720 era.

Absolutely correct. You said it before DJ, the majority of people who have disliked NHL for the past few years are the people who have purchased it every year for this gen. I fall into that category, in fact I've got it on release day each year just like I'm sure many other people.

It's been minor improvements all along to the core essentials of the game, when they've need major improvements. To me after 7 years on 360 they should have AI almost spot on, but it doesn't come close. They should have created a whole new goaltending system at some point (they had to have know it was bad), but they didn't. That's two huge areas that have been touched up very little in 7 years.

The game has no question gotten better since 07, but it hasn't gotten the attention that it's needed in the correct areas. I don't know hardware or any of that type of stuff, but I will say that if EA finds a way to use the memory and power of the new consoles, this game could be unbelievable. If this means more AI programming, better physics, authentic arenas, then I cannot wait. All I want is an NHL game that I can play all year long and still feel like anything can happen each time I play it.

[DJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by bwiggy33

Absolutely correct. You said it before DJ, the majority of people who have disliked NHL for the past few years are the people who have purchased it every year for this gen. I fall into that category, in fact I've got it on release day each year just like I'm sure many other people. It's been minor improvements all along to the core essentials of the game, when they've need major improvements. To me after 7 years on 360 they should have AI almost spot on, but it doesn't come close. They should have created a whole new goaltending system at some point (they had to have know it was bad), but they didn't. That's two huge areas that have been touched up very little in 7 years. The game has no question gotten better since 07, but it hasn't gotten the attention that it's needed in the correct areas. I don't know hardware or any of that type of stuff, but I will say that if EA finds a way to use the memory and power of the new consoles, this game could be unbelievable. If this means more AI programming, better physics, authentic arenas, then I cannot wait. All I want is an NHL game that I can play all year long and still feel like anything can happen each time I play it.

Do you have Custom AI settings for the CPU? I only play Play Now games since Be A GM is a tired game mode to me. With custom settings, you could at least get the CPU teams to show some personality differences.

Having CPU teams play different styles is imperative for this series, imo. All the CPU teams play exactly the same and that eliminates the fun after a while. NCAA and Madden (more so in 12 than 13) do a pretty good job at this and MLB The Show separates teams with ratings and the number of pitchers you face in a Franchise makes every game different. NBA 2K needs some help from the user to accomplish this, but with the right roster edits it can be done.

NHL has ratings for teams too bunched together, same with players from team to team. No real separation leads to funky results in simming and causes that CPU stagnancy. The roster edits for NHL help a little but not enough to make a big difference in the overall experience.

[bwiggy33]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJ

Do you have Custom AI settings for the CPU? I only play Play Now games since Be A GM is a tired game mode to me. With custom settings, you could at least get the CPU teams to show some personality differences.

Yep I've done that. That was the very first thing I did when I got the game. It definitely helps but for me I can only do play now games for so long. I need franchise mode and obviously the fact the AI settings aren't in BeAGM kind of screws that up. I could do season but I like drafting and building a team.

If they add more options to the the AI settings as well as the ability to use them in BeAGM then that would be huge. It would also be great if they could give us the opportunity to remedy the easy zone entry. Redshirt came out and said the developers make it easy to enter the Off zone on purpose because casual players would hate it if they couldn't get into the zone. If they added a slider to the AI settings that would really help. Then if they put in a couple more AI options for offensive zone pressure and defensive zone pressure (realistic not superhuman CPU AI) we could really develop some settings that mimic how each team plays.

More options is always better as long as they work properly. Let people chose how they want to play the game. I'm making it sound like it's easy and I know it's not, but I feel if they would have done this from the get go, this game would be so much further along.

[RLaguna]

I agree mostly with the above poster and what to further add what I think are the major problems with this game...( and series lately)

For one, The teams do play too much like carbon copies of each other, even despite the fact that their Team Strategy sections do indeed show different settings from team to team....its just not distinct enough on the ice to really notice the different team styles of play like you actually see in the real NHL.

Another problem that could be related to the above problem, is the lack of real seperation of player skills....Im not just talking about distinctions between good and bad players, Im talking more about all the subtle attributes that make up a player's unique profile and play style. In the real NHL, you can instanly see all the nuances of each player's skill sets if you watch them. The NHL 2k series did a wonderful job of creating all these subtle player ratings and attributes and I think the EA series has to do a better job of creating seperation in these subtle player traits on the ice to create a much more dynamic experience

A 3rd problem which can also be related to the above 2 issues creating sterile and very dejavu and repetive game to game experiences that get dull is the fact that the game's core AI engine needs to be greatly expanded to be more human like and less predictable in certain situations....There has to be more of a variety in decision making, mistakes, mental errors, and just all around deaper ai analysis rather than just having the game's AI trigger events when certain circumstances are true....its too predictable and routine and appears very shallow.


4th problem, is the game needs to do a much better job of animating a much greater range of player movements and motions to capture all the essence of NHL players with much improved physics engine playing a larger, more realistic role in the interactions of the player, and puck. Checking should be more fierce and animated with greater variety...not more Explosive and fake, but just more natural and realistic looking with a greater range of banging up into the boards and scrumming for loose pucks....There is simply too much cleanly executed tick- tack- toe hockey. There should be a much greater sense of struggle and physicality to get off a clean shot...Needs to just be a better mix (ratio) of sloppy and grinding fight for possession of the puck hockey versus all out end to end hockey

And Finally, I really think the Franchise Mode is pathetic and has been the most under inspiring Franchise mode of any sports game for the last several years now! There is no sense of playing with other NHL teams in your league. You feel so alone. There should be a main News Section that encapsulates all the News and Stories from around the League.

You should be able to dig deeper into stats and boxscores around the league by clicking on them to open up more detailed information. You should be able to click on teams in the standings to see a deeper level of team detail and scheduling and scores, stats, etc from each team

And you should be able to click on a DAILY Schedule of ALL TEAM GAMES and be able to PLAY or SIM ANY GAME on the schedule if you like. This allows you the flexibility and freedom to play key games between 2 teams that you may want to play out rather than your own teams game. And it would also allow you to play out the post season playoff games as well if you wanted to. Franchise Mode needs much more in terms of factoids, on screen stats, presentation and just all around freedom and customization options available to the user to custom taylor more of a sandbox Franchise League of their choice...the way they want to play it.

[DJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by bwiggy33

Yep I've done that. That was the very first thing I did when I got the game. It definitely helps but for me I can only do play now games for so long. I need franchise mode and obviously the fact the AI settings aren't in BeAGM kind of screws that up. I could do season but I like drafting and building a team. If they add more options to the the AI settings as well as the ability to use them in BeAGM then that would be huge. It would also be great if they could give us the opportunity to remedy the easy zone entry. Redshirt came out and said the developers make it easy to enter the Off zone on purpose because casual players would hate it if they couldn't get into the zone. If they added a slider to the AI settings that would really help. Then if they put in a couple more AI options for offensive zone pressure and defensive zone pressure (realistic not superhuman CPU AI) we could really develop some settings that mimic how each team plays. More options is always better as long as they work properly. Let people chose how they want to play the game. I'm making it sound like it's easy and I know it's not, but I feel if they would have done this from the get go, this game would be so much further along.

You can use custom AI in Season Mode? What about Playoff Mode? Would you mind sending me a PM with the changes you made to the CPU teams?

Giving us the ability to carry these edits over into Be A GM would be huge.

Your point about gaining the offensive zone brings me back to what other people have mentioned: EA should really look at using something similar to 2K's gameplay settings where you have Arcade/Normal/Simulation options. Let the casual guys play on Arcade and Normal and the sim guys can use the Simulation option.

[bwiggy33]

Quote: Originally Posted by DJ

You can use custom AI in Season Mode? What about Playoff Mode? Would you mind sending me a PM with the changes you made to the CPU teams? Giving us the ability to carry these edits over into Be A GM would be huge. Your point about gaining the offensive zone brings me back to what other people have mentioned: EA should really look at using something similar to 2K's gameplay settings where you have Arcade/Normal/Simulation options. Let the casual guys play on Arcade and Normal and the sim guys can use the Simulation option.

Ya you can do it in season. I personally haven't tried it because I don't play season. The reason you are able to though is because you can play for either side if you control all of the teams. With BeAGM you cannot move your controller to the other team. I'm not sure about playoff mode but I'm assuming you could use the settings. Just make sure you have every team user controlled and it should be good to go. Anyone who has done it please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll boot up the game later on and send you a PM of the settings I have.

[tfer717]

The biggest problem with EA's NHL for as long as i can remember (and pretty much every ea game) is the skill separation of players. Every player in the game is capable of all the same animations and movements. I think until players are able to skate, shoot, and stick handle differently, we are gonna see alot of the same problems with team differentiation.

I said it in another thread.. but the game is just far too casual for sim hockey fans. It doesn't have the 'depth' that certain simulation gamers love. It isn't on par with the feel of mlb the show & nba 2k. Every time I play nhl I know what to expect. I never ever see anything thats a 'wow I've never seen that before'. And if it does happen, it is due to some odd glitch or animation screw up. The engine has gotten stale.. and i think it needs to evolve into something much more in depth. Casual gamers can learn to love a true simulation game.

I know im beating a dead horse.. and not that i was a big fan of nhl 2k past 2k8... but the lack of competition in hockey gaming is killing it. Every year EA hypes the most about cover votes and new pointless game modes and features. Little do they know that the most excited I got this year (other than the skating) was for their ATTEMPT at real-time presentation. I despised seeing the same cut scenes after the whistle for the last decade.

[Wiggy]

Quote: Originally Posted by tfer717

The biggest problem with EA's NHL for as long as i can remember (and pretty much every ea game) is the skill separation of players. Every player in the game is capable of all the same animations and movements. I think until players are able to skate, shoot, and stick handle differently, we are gonna see alot of the same problems with team differentiation. I said it in another thread.. but the game is just far too casual for sim hockey fans. It doesn't have the 'depth' that certain simulation gamers love. It isn't on par with the feel of mlb the show & nba 2k. Every time I play nhl I know what to expect. I never ever see anything thats a 'wow I've never seen that before'. And if it does happen, it is due to some odd glitch or animation screw up. The engine has gotten stale.. and i think it needs to evolve into something much more in depth. Casual gamers can learn to love a true simulation game. I know im beating a dead horse.. and not that i was a big fan of nhl 2k past 2k8... but the lack of competition in hockey gaming is killing it. Every year EA hypes the most about cover votes and new pointless game modes and features. Little do they know that the most excited I got this year (other than the skating) was for their ATTEMPT at real-time presentation. I despised seeing the same cut scenes after the whistle for the last decade.

Yeah, I hear you. The fact that players are able to do so many things hurts many sports games. I really feel this is a necessity for next-gen sports titles, especially with the added processor power for AI and the like. It would be great to see unique players truly feel special when they're on the ice, whether it's from their physical presence or superior puckhandling, etc.