NHL 12 Building The Perfect Speedy 2 Way Fwd Help Guide (Hit, Shot, StickLift, Speed)

[xS xIx Nx]

ALL THE TOP CLUB TEAMS CAN SCORE! You can see some pretty ugly games like 10-9. We can all agree that the best defense usually wins. That being said I have been on a quest to find that perfect build that can shoot, hit, stick lift, and has some great speed.

AS A DISCLAIMER: I usually play club 3v3 or 4v4. This is very different from 5v5 or 6v6 with goalies. We do not play with human goalies. That being said... when you play with computer goalies you need a higher shot power/accuracy typically to shoot more effectively.

SO HERE'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GATHER ABOUT THE 2 WAY FORWARD:

Attributes by themselves do not mean anything. Everything depends on the height and weight you are playing at. I've seen the youtube videos for effect on speed and acceleration. I don't think that the cone drill is really all that accurate to how your skater skates in club. No matter what your feeling is on this we all have to ask ourselves the same question: How can I build my player's height and weight to compensate for what I haven't put into attributes?

Shorter players have a more accurate shot. Taller players have a more powerful shot. Lighter players are more agile and do not require as much deking. Taller players are more powerful and can hit harder. Do I put a lot of attribute points into strength and shot power while making my guy shorter or do I put my points into agility and speed and acceleration and accuracy and make him taller?

1) HEIGHT/WEIGHT

Here are a few sizes that I've played with a lot. These heights seem to be the most effective all around players in my opinion. If you play with a player taller than 6'2" and can stick lift, shoot, and move like a rabbit I would be interested to hear about it.

5'10" 185 pounds (11 skates)
Stick lifting: perfect for stick lifting with a balance in the 70s or 80s as long as your stick checking is 99.
Wrist Shot Power: A+ good shot power at 93 or even 90.
Wrist Shot Accuracy: A+ 93 is perfect with this size.
Scoring on One-Timers: I'd give it a B+. The shot is decent with hand-eye around 85-88. It's not perfect by any stretch.
Breakaways: B+ Your stick is a little short to score with any consistency in front of the net if you have decent skills. (This is not my strength)
Puck Control: C+. You can get stick lifted very easily even right after you steal the puck from an opponent. Even with a balance and strength at 80.
Hitting: F... Pretty bad... at base hitting stats of 60,60 check/aggressiveness this makes hitting pretty poor with the size.

5'11" 188 pounds (11 skates) 194 pounds (13 skates)
Stick lifting: Great for stick lifting with a balance of 78 as long as your stick checking is 99.
Wrist Shot Power: Because your player is slightly overweight at 194 you can get a good shot power at 90. At 188 it can be pretty inconsistent.
Wrist Shot Accuracy: Again 93 is perfect with this size.
Scoring on One-Timers: A+. Even with base hand-eye the shot is highly accurate. Perfect hand-eye is going to be around 85.
Breakaways: A. Scoring for 5'11" seems to be the best is all ways. The stick is long enough to score in front of the net and on breakaways if you have a decent ability to deke the goalie.
Puck Control: B+. It's slightly better than 5'10" with a balance of 78. You can get stick lifted very easily even right after you steal the puck from an opponent... Even with a balance and strength at 80.
Hitting: D+ Again this is pretty bad... Not sure if it's my agility or acceleration but at base hitting stats of 60,60 check/aggressiveness this makes hitting pretty poor. Occassionally I will drop someone but usually I just bounce off them or stop them for a moment. Even with higher hitting stats 80/80 I had issues consistently hitting. I would hit a guy hard from time to time but no more than with 60/60.

6'0" 185 pounds (13 skates) or 195 (11 skates)
Stick lifting: B. Stick lifting works on both but the skater very rarely cleanly takes the puck after stick lifting.
Wrist Shot Power: Because your player is slightly overweight you can get a good shot power at 90.
Wrist Shot Accuracy: Again 93 is perfect with this size.
Scoring on One-Timers: B+. For some reason scoring one-timers with a 6 foot player is difficult around the circles and in the slot unless you have very high strength and balance.
Breakaways: A. Very similar to scoring with a 5'11" player. The stick is slightly longer which allows you to deke the goalie a little easier.
Puck Control: A- with a balance of 80. You still lose the puck pretty often if the opposing player is build correctly.
Hitting: C+ A little better than 5'11" but not much. You see more heavy hitting but nothing to write home about.

6'1" 188 pounds (11 skates) 195 pounds (11 skates) 200 pounds (13 skates)
Stick lifting: A++ Great for stick lifting with a balance of 70 as long as your stick checking is 99.
Wrist Shot Power: A. Power at 90 is decent. 93 is stellar!
Wrist Shot Accuracy: B+. Again 93 seems to be the best
Scoring on One-Timers: B. With a 2 way forward this is the most frustrating part of this build. Sure you will score a one-timer from time to time but I want to score every time.
Breakaways: A. Just beautiful.
Puck Control: A. Very good.
Hitting: B. Hitting with base stats seems to work very well as a 6'1" player regardless of weight. I tend to see that with 85 strength the hits are crisp and 80-90% of the time the player goes down without a problem. Again this is using 60/60 base hitting/aggressiveness stats.

6'2" 180 pounds (13 skates) 205 pounds (11, 13 skates)
Stick lifting: B. decent at stick lifting. It's probably more effective to use the poke check with this build. Too many penalties and you rarely take the puck cleanly away with the stick lift.
Wrist Shot Power: A+. Power at 90 is decent. 93 is stellar!
Wrist Shot Accuracy: B. Again 93 seems to be the best rating for accuracy.
Scoring on One-Timers: B. Nothing special here. Just make sure you have good strength and balance (80s).
Breakaways: A+. Also very beautiful in front of the net. The 180 build is very nice on the forecheck and deking cleanly on the goalie. The 205 build is a little tougher.
Puck Control: A-. Very good. One of the few downsides to being taller and having a longer stick is it's easier to get stick lifted because the target is longer. On the opposite side it's more difficult to get poke checked from behind.
Hitting: A+ at 205. B at 180. Hitting with base stats is effective at 205 and not so much at 180. Atleast that's how I see it.

2) ATTRIBUTES

I don't want a build that can JUST SCORE. I want to be a shutdown defender on the back check and effective scoring ON MY OWN along with teammates on the cycle.

OFFENSIVE ATTRIBUTES:

1) Deking - 88-95 seems to do the trick. I don't want to go higher than 95 because I am playing as a two way forward and the difference between 95 and 99 is small in comparison to what you could do with the points elsewhere. This is going to affect both the speed of stick and the accuracy of my shot after I am through with a deke move. This is a really big deal if you like the curve shot from the circles.
2) Hand-Eye - This is probably the most difficult stat to figure out in my opinion. I'm sure that a 95 hand-eye could really help out my one-timers but honestly I have found that height/weight has a greater effect on your one-timers than this actual attribute. 85 seems to do the trick. 5'11" seems to be the best height for scoring one-timers.
3) Offensive Awareness - In my opinion this helps the pass more than it helps the scoring like the description says. 80-85 seems to be the highest I want to allocate to this stat ever! I might go higher on a different build but for a 2 way forward 85 is plenty offensive awareness.
4) Passing - 90 pass along with a decent offensive awareness seems to do the trick. (Offensive awareness 80-82)
5) Puck Control - Puck control is expensive for a 2 way forward. For the 2 way forward build I have to supplement puck control with balance on athleticism. They are one in the same. That being said I simply put a +5 boost on puck control and increase it to 85-88.
7) Wrist Shot Power - Needs to be between 90-93 based on your height, balance, and strength. If you build a player with 80 strength you can get away with a power of 90.
8) Wrist Shot Accuracy - Needs to be at 93. This is the perfect spot for a 2 way forward. Again I am not concerned here with anything other than snipes from the circles and slot. I want a high percentage of shots going in... not just every once in a while.

Currently Using: 5'11" 194 pounds (13 skates)
Deking 91, Handeye 85, Off Awr 82, Pass 90, Puck Contrl 85, WSA 93, WSP 90
Boosts: WSP 8, WSA 8, Deke 5, Pass 5, Pck Cntl 5

DEFENSIVE ATTRIBUTES:

1) Aggressiveness - This stat seems to be very helpful in determining the intensity of the hit. I don't put any points into this category as a center but with a wing I would probably put the points around 80.
2) Defensive Awareness - I personally hate pucks going by my stick. In club you will see guys with 99 passing, offensive awareness, and hand-eye. The only way to stop these pucks is with 99 defensive awareness rating. If anyone has other thoughts on this please let me know. I find that this doesn't turn your stick into the magic glue stick but it does intercept everything when you are in position to take the puck. It will not go through your stick.
4) Discipline - If you are a center... no additional points... they are better spent elsewhere. If you are a wing go ahead and jack this all the way up to 99. It's cheap and very helpful.
5) Faceoffs - 99 all the way if you are a center. In my own words: in faceoffs there are technique wins and attributes wins. You can beat a guy with a 99 faceoffs if you beat his technique regardless of your faceoff attributes (for example: you are backhand and he is forehand... you stick lift and he pulls down on the left stick). You really want to make sure that when you are head to head (both forehand or both backhand) that you win based on timing and not lose because he has a higher faceoff.
6) Stick Checking - Easily 98 or 99. 98 if you are a center. 99 if you are a wing. I don't put boosts on defense because I believe that most of this game is based on positioning and my boosts and best spent on athleticism. That being said in order to get to 99 defensive awareness and 99 faceoffs you need to skimp on points somewhere.

Faceoff 99, Stick Check 98, Defense Awareness 99.

ATHLETICISM:

There are a couple ways to look at athleticism: 1) High Accel/High Speed or 2) High Agility/High Speed.

In my opinion you need a reasonably high endurance, reasonable balance, and strength no matter what so it's difficult to go too high on the accel or agility. I am not trying to build the super speedy guy who can only run up to the goalie and score right in front of the net. What happens when you play a team that doesn't allow you to get in front of the net? Do you just quit like most players who don't know what to do when someone plays defense? How can you adjust with that type of build?

If you choose High Accel you are going to have some issues (on a slow connection) turning around and moving in the offensive zone. You will also find yourself over-shooting more agile players on defense. Defense seems to be the larger problem. Again every team can score... you want to set yourself apart on your back-check as a forward.

1) Acceleration - If you choose the high accel route on any build you need atleast an accel of 90 coupled with a speed greater than 97. I've seen some pretty interesting accel/speed combos but in my opinion this is just a little too much. This might be achieveable on another build but not with the two way considered everywhere else we need points. I have compromised with a reasonable 85. It feels smooth in the game and coupled with 95 speed it's pretty fast on 13 skates.
2) Agility - I have found that you can get away with no agility IF you have a high enough accel and speed. I have also found that slow connections make this build worthless online. I am pretty safe an agility at 85.
3) Balance - Needs to be atleast 70 for the stick lift and 78-85 if you need to overcompensate for low puck control. This will also help your ability to shoot when standing still. You ever notice that your shot is great when you move quickly and poopy when you are standing still? That's largely due to strength and balance. You need a pretty good balance to shoot that standing shot at the circles consistently in the top corner with plenty of shot power.
4) Endurance - No lower than 85 in my opinion. This is a very cheap attribute for a 2way forward. You can go as high as 90-95 if you feel it has an impact or if you like to use the hustle button. I don't use the hustle button because I personally play with relatively high acceleration and speed. If you are using the low acceleration build you most definitely need to jack this up to mid 90s as the only way for you to accel will be with the hustle button. I personally use 90 endurance and I've never been tired.
6) Speed - 95-99. It really comes down to your comfort level. Believe me when I say that there is definitely too fast in this game when it comes to defense. I don't want to overshoot the play but I also want to be able to catch up to anyone on the breakaway or on a rush. Again... 95 should be fine if you play your position the way you should. If you go with 95 speed you need 13 skates no matter what. In 3v3 and 4v4 club speed can be a pretty big deal. Having a player that's slower than your rush opponents can also kill you. The best way to make sure you don't lose on the rush is stay away from forechecking too often and calling for the puck in the offensive zone. That's usally where the breakouts happen for the other team.
7) Strength - 80 is where this needs to be for everything else to work properly.

Currently Use: 5'11" 194 pounds (13 skates)
Accel 85, Agility 85, Balance 78, Endurance 90, Speed 95, Strength 80
Accel 5, Agility 5, Speed 8, Strength 5

3) ATTRIBUTE BOOST SLOTS

Lastly I would like to discuss boosts. In my opinion most of the game of hockey is about positioning. Why not put all of your boosts into athleticism when you can?

1) That first row should be all about your shot. Wrist Shot Accuracy and Power are very expensive. I would use the Wrist Shot Power +5 and +3 boosts for the first two. I would lastly use the Wrist Shot Accuracy +5 for the 3rd slot. Wrist shot power is more expensive for a two way forward than accuracy. You would switch the +3 to accuracy if you are using a sniper or a power forward as accuracy is more expensive on those builds.
2) Second row should be the most expensive athleticism boosts.
3) In the third row: Just remember to take a look at the attribute costs. A three point acceleration boost might be worth 180 points compared to a balance boost worth 150 points. This gives you an additional 30 points to put elsewhere.
4) The Fourth Row: Puck Control +5 and Deke +5 a must... depending on your build you could use +5 strength (I would suggest strength) or +5 pass or +3 puck Control. It all really comes down to point allocation. Again I use the +5 strength because I want as many points as possible in athleticism. I WOULD NEVER USE +5 durability or +5 Endurance unless I hadn't unlocked anything else.

IN CONCLUSION

You really need to make sure that your player's size is a good compliment to your attributes. If you are shorter you can get away with a less agile player but you need a higher acceleration (13 skates) and more than likely more strength and wrist power. If you are going to be taller then you need more agility, wrist shot accuracy, and deking.

The hitting is the toughest part to get. You are going to best off with a 6'2" player for hitting but I personally prefer the one-timer of the 5'11" player or the 6'1" player. The stick lift is great. The shot is super smooth (especially on the 5'11" 194 build). And you can take the body to break up a play when it's necessary. It's not an overpowering hit but it will serve it's purpose.

Any additional insight from anyone is greatly appreciated! I still think I can make my player better. I am super interested in getting that real hard hit while keeping what I have. Does anyone have a height/weight combo that works for them on base hitting stats? Any way to super overweight a player in one of those sweet spots where they don't give up too much agilty or speed?

[Segagendude]

Can you repeat that please?

[xS xIx Nx]

I know. I know. It's a little long and most folks won't get through most of it. If you do that's great. I appreciate any input you might have...

[Yeats]

Hey bro, that's some really good stuff there. Hope you get some serious, appreciative responses and not just the naysayers. I don't play online or I'd definitely participate in the conversation. I just wanted to comment because I have the same enthusiasm for breaking down the offline aspects and components of games, just as you've done.

[BigDisk]

I find that agility at anything over 85 makes you more prone to blow a tire when doing tight turns with the puck. If you do want to use a higher agility it has to come with more balance.

Balance is expensive though (so is everything in atheticism).


Anyhow, I don't see how you could have 95 speed, 90+ accel, 90+ endurance, 85 agility, and 80 bal/str. It's just not possible with a TWF. IMO you kind of fail to describe where you put the compromise in your post (well, you do say either high speed/accel or high speed/agility but then also go with high str/bal...)

Great post nonetheless! I will try different size/weight combo based on your results.

[xS xIx Nx]

Thanks man. I went ahead and made the post a little easier to read.

On Athleticism I feel like there are two camps of thought. They say go super high on accel or super high on agility. They seem to forget strength and balance. I feel like you can't really do this with a 2 way either. A reasonable accel of 85 mixed with a speed of 95 works great for me. Of course I use 13 skates with 85 agility as well. I give strength a priority over balance just from a personal preference.

I've thrown balance in the 90s before but I gave up too much to do it. My player was a little too slow because I didn't have the top speed or a little too weak on the shot beacuse I didn't have the strength. Balance of 90 didn't help unless I had a reasonable strength. I additionally feel like there is little difference between 78-85 on balance.

5'11" 194 pounds (13 skates)

85 accel
85 agility
78 balance
90 endurance
95 speed
80 strength

Boosts: Accel 5, Agility 5, Speed +8, Strength +5

[AtlantaLarry]

I have to respectfully disagree with a few of your observations. I've been playing with a 6'3", 215 lb., TWF Center for quite a while now, and I've personally found that:

- Wrist shot power seems to be WAY more important than accuracy. And neither even have to be as high as 90 to be highly effective. I go with 82 ACC and 86 PWR, and I can pick corners on snappers and wrist shots really well (my shooting % is 20% and I average a little over a goal a game thru 450 games or so, logging a bit of time on D as well). I previously had it at 90 ACC and 80 PWR, and found it much more difficult to just beat the goalie with that setup, and I now score at about the same rate as my wingers who have their ACC in the high 90's.

- Puck Control is maybe the most important Offensive stat, and I think anything under 90 is really difficult to handle with all the 99 Stick Check/Def Awareness opponents running around now that everyone is a Legend. I go with 95, myself, and I think it's especially important for a TWF as you don't want the turnovers you create going right back onto the opponent's stick.

- As a TWF, 99 Disc is a MUST, just because of how cheap it is. It really makes a difference, I've found, going from even 95 to 99, you can get away with a lot more poke-checking that would otherwise constantly send you to the box for tripping.

- I just can't justify going 99 on Faceoffs. Sure, it's a nice advantage, but losing faceoffs can always be remedied with good team play, and the points are so much more valuable in other categories. And honestly, I think Connectivity/LAG has more to do with faceoff wins than anything else most of the time. I go with 85 myself, and I think I'm something like 45% overall, which should be plenty good enough to give your team a chance.

- Acceleration is suspected to be a "broken attribute" by a lot of EA Forum members. I don't think that's necessarily true, but do think it's very much compensated for with a fairly high Speed and Agility. I switched from 85 ACC, 85 AGI and 87 SPD to 78 ACC, 90 AGI and 90 SPD and I felt much more maneuverable and quick.

- If you use the speed burst sparingly (as you should if you're a good positional player), Endurance is pretty much inessential. I think I've got mine at 74, up a bit from default only because I had a few leftover points to use. I can't even remember the last time I got the "tired animation", and I'd say I use the speed burst maybe 5-8 times a game.

Good write-up, though, just thought I'd share a few of my observations.

[xS xIx Nx]

Quote: Originally Posted by AtlantaLarry

I have to respectfully disagree with a few of your observations. I've been playing with a 6'3", 215 lb., TWF Center for quite a while now, and I've personally found that: - Wrist shot power seems to be WAY more important than accuracy. And neither even have to be as high as 90 to be highly effective. I go with 82 ACC and 86 PWR, and I can pick corners on snappers and wrist shots really well (my shooting % is 20% and I average a little over a goal a game thru 450 games or so, logging a bit of time on D as well). I previously had it at 90 ACC and 80 PWR, and found it much more difficult to just beat the goalie with that setup, and I now score at about the same rate as my wingers who have their ACC in the high 90's.I - Puck Control is maybe the most important Offensive stat, and I think anything under 90 is really difficult to handle with all the 99 Stick Check/Def Awareness opponents running around now that everyone is a Legend. I go with 95, myself, and I think it's especially important for a TWF as you don't want the turnovers you create going right back onto the opponent's stick. - As a TWF, 99 Disc is a MUST, just because of how cheap it is. It really makes a difference, I've found, going from even 95 to 99, you can get away with a lot more poke-checking that would otherwise constantly send you to the box for tripping. - I just can't justify going 99 on Faceoffs. Sure, it's a nice advantage, but losing faceoffs can always be remedied with good team play, and the points are so much more valuable in other categories. And honestly, I think Connectivity/LAG has more to do with faceoff wins than anything else most of the time. I go with 85 myself, and I think I'm something like 45% overall, which should be plenty good enough to give your team a chance. - Acceleration is suspected to be a "broken attribute" by a lot of EA Forum members. I don't think that's necessarily true, but do think it's very much compensated for with a fairly high Speed and Agility. I switched from 85 ACC, 85 AGI and 87 SPD to 78 ACC, 90 AGI and 90 SPD and I felt much more maneuverable and quick. - If you use the speed burst sparingly (as you should if you're a good positional player), Endurance is pretty much inessential. I think I've got mine at 74, up a bit from default only because I had a few leftover points to use. I can't even remember the last time I got the "tired animation", and I'd say I use the speed burst maybe 5-8 times a game. Good write-up, though, just thought I'd share a few of my observations.

Thanks my man. I appreciate you throwing some parts of your build out there. I just happened to Check your post right before jumping on to play so I figured I would try your build out. I ran 6'3" 215 with 82 accel, 90 agility, 90 speed, 86 strength and guessed and 85 balance with an 80 endurance.

First I will say that the hitting is exactly what I'm looking for. The puck control, to be perfectly honest is very similar to what I play with at 5'11" without the increased stats. Occasionally you get stick lifted but most of the time you hold onto the puck. Maybe my player just doesn't need as much puck control because of the height... Not sure... Either way it was a wash for me. The speed and general movement was slower than I am used to. It was a tiny bit difficult to get by both human defenders effectively at the blue line. Overall I liked it.

The only thing that I would change of course is the shot. I say "shot from the circles" but what i really mean is glitch shot. Hate it or love it... It's part of the game and used often. I think that everyone should learn how to defend it before I stop using it. I am used to the shot going in 80-100 percent of the time and quite frankly I couldn't get the lift I needed in the shot from your build. I moved the goalie to center position like normal and I just couldn't lift the shot above his glove side. I took about 3 of these shots and they all missed. Again I am used to hitting this almost every time so I definitely know how it works. I used 89 power and 89 accuracy because you mentioned you don't need your shot in the 90s. I played with a 95 deke... Maybe it needed to be 99. Who knows?

Either way... Overall I liked the build outside of the shot. The hitting was great. Stick lifting was perferct. 6'3" 215 isn't something that I've tried on a forward before so it was a good change of pace. I think you might have something with the height/weight combination here. It might just take some fiddling around to get it where I would want it. Thanks again for a solid build!