What is the 3-4 over/under/predator/even/solid fronts and when to use them?

[kingoftroy7]

What is the 3-4 over/under/predator/even/solid fronts and when to use them?

[grabursock55]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingoftroy7

What is the 3-4 over/under/predator/even/solid fronts and when to use them?

They are all basicly the same thing and their use is based all on your own personal philosophies. I never stray away from regular 3-4. However, once we are at the ball, I generally will shift my line towards the strong side of the formation, and my linebackers in the opposite direction.

The 3-4 is a basic defensive formation. 3 down linemen, 4 linebackers
the over/ under just means the line backers will shift either to the left or right (Depending on over or under call) and one of them will play very close to the line, making your formation become pretty much a modified 4-2... This would be used when you have a strong feeling that your opponent may run a certian way. for example, if your opponent ALWAYS runs to the wide side of the field, you may want to go over/ under to give you those few yards closer to the ball that you may need. However, your opponent may see this, and audible to the other side. Which is why I always go base 3-4

I NEVER use the other ones, so I cant really tell you much about them.

[jello1717]

Aside from some alignment differences, the main differences between them all is the plays they have and I use every 3-4 formation (including 3-4 over ed which is set up like a 4-3, but with 3-4 personnel). There are plays in every formation that aren't available in others.

IE:
cover 2 man is different between them. They all have 2 safeties deep, rush 3 linemen and have 5 guys play man. That 11th guy is different. On some a OLB rushes. On some a MLB plays a hook zone. On 1 a MLB plays spy, making it the only cover 2 man with a spy in a 3-4 (and probably any formation).

Cover 2 is different between them. Some rush 4, have 2 flat zones, and 3 hook zones. Some rush 3, have 2 hook zones, 2 flat zones, and 2 buzz zones (this is by far by favorite cover 2 and it's not available in the base 3-4 D).

The blitzes are where the differences really shine. Here are some of my favorite blitzes (which are only available in certain formations):

• Solid has 1 that blitzes all 4 LBs, 1 DL, and has 2 DL dropping into hook zones with a safety with a cover 3 shell.
• Even (I think) has man coverage with a CB blitzing. This is great to have him blitz from the short side of the field or from the empty side of an overloaded formation.
• There are 2 formations where you rush 3, blitz both OLBs, and have 4 hook zones and cover 2 behind it.
• A couple have my favorite zone blitz where both OLBs blitz, the 2 CBs play flat zones, and has 2 hook zones under a cover 2 shell.
• There's a couple rolled zones with a flat on 1 side and buzz on the other with a safety blitzing.
• Solid has a cover 1 man with both OLBs blitzing (this isn't available in any other formation)
• Over ED has my favorite run stopping blitz with the 4 man front, blitzing an OLB and a MLB in spy.

Those are some of my favorite blitzes from 3-4 and none of the ones I listed are available in the base 3-4 (which has some great blitzes as well).

[T-Moar]

I'm 100% certain that I'm about to put in a lot of work here only to be told that about 75% of it's wrong, so take all of this with a grain of salt. If anyone sees anything wrong with this, feel free to correct me.

3-4 Even and Odd are your basic 3-4 formations. The primary difference in the two is the technique alignment of the linemen. While the Linebackers are going to line up directly in front of the O-Line in both, Even lines up such that the Linebackers are immediately behind the D-Line, taking the O-Line on from a 0-, 2-, 4-, or 6-technique (even numbers). In an Odd alignment, which is your more typical 3-4 set, they are coming at the O-line from a "shade" or "odd" alignment, with backers coming from the 1- and 7-technique spots.

So, basically, this is Even (I'm only going to be drawing the front 7 and O-line since the DBs don't matter):


=------LB-LB-----------
----LB-DE-DT-DE-LB---
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

And this is Odd:

-------LB--LB-----------
---LB-DE-DT-DE--LB----
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

You probably can't tell the difference in those two diagrams, but whatever, I did what I could.

The Over and Under formations shift the front 7 to be in a better position to attack the Strong and Weak sides of the formation, respectively. In real football, the Strong side is the side with the TE on it, but in NCAA, it's the left side. This is stupid and everyone hates it, but I guess you can just flip the play if the strong side is the left, so I digress. Not only do these formations shift the linebackers to cover the point of attack better, they also shift the DT to the 1-technique spot on that side. These alignments are a lot more common, because they allow your DT to be more athletic and get to the QB, basically serving as a 3rd DE, whereas the Even/Odd formations are better used by a team with a massive, gap-eating mammoth of a DT. Think J.J. Watt vs. Vince Wilfork. Functionally, the Over/Under and the Odd/Even really are two entirely different defenses, but I guess they both use 3 D-Linemen and 4 Linebackers, so whatever.

The Over winds up looking like this (keep in mind, I'm leaving the Weak Side TE in for illustrative purposes only):

------LB-----LB---------
--LB---DE--DT-DE-LB----
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

And the Under looks something like this:

---------LB-----LB-----
----LB-DE|DT--DE---LB-
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

I don't really know anything about the Predator or Solid formations, so you'll have to get information about those two elsewhere.

Also, one last note: I noticed that someone else earlier in the thread mentioned the Over Ed and claimed that it is essentially the 4-3. It is most certainly not. The alignment is similar to a 4-3, but keep in mind that it shifts the Linebackers and the Linemen such that they "bunch" together. That is, each group occupies one side of the O-Line.

So, if this is the 4-3 (is it? I don't know anything about the 4-3):

-----LB----LB----LB-----
---DE---DT--DT---DE---
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

This would be the Over Ed:

-----LB----LB----DE-----
---LB---LB--DT---DE----
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

Anyway, that's probably more than you wanted to know or whatever, but it's what I know.

TL;DR version: Odd/Even changes where the linemen line up, Over/Under changes where the point of attack is in respect to the OL. I don't know about Predator/Solid, and Over Ed is weird.

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by T-Moar

Also, one last note: I noticed that someone else earlier in the thread mentioned the Over Ed and claimed that it is essentially the 4-3. It is most certainly not. The alignment is similar to a 4-3, but keep in mind that it shifts the Linebackers and the Linemen such that they "bunch" together. That is, each group occupies one side of the O-Line. So, if this is the 4-3 (is it? I don't know anything about the 4-3): -----LB----LB----LB----- ---DE---DT--DT---DE--- TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE This would be the Over Ed: -----LB----LB----DE----- ---LB---LB--DT---DE---- TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

I was talking about the formations in NCAA '13, not necessarily how they are in real life. In the game, the over ed has all linemen on the line, unlike your diagram. It's aligned kinda like an exaggerated over/under with the OLB having his hand in the dirt and the DT/DE swapped.

For this example my D is numbered like this:
91 -LE
97 - RE
73 - DT
53 - LOLB
40 - LMLB
41 - RMLB
57 - ROLB

The play art for the formation is shown like your diagram:


Which is:
---LMLB--ROLB----LE-----
-RMLB-LOLB--DT---RE----
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

but that's not how it really lines up. It really lines up like this:


Which has all 3 linemen on the line and is like this:
---RMLB--LMLB--ROLB-----
-LOLB---DT--RE---LE----
TE-OT-OG-OC-OG-OT-TE

So the alignment is very similar to the base 4-3 formation but since there's 3-4 personnel they move 1 of the OLBs down on the line with the 3 D-linemen (and they swap the DT and RE). I'd bet most people would look at that 2nd picture and, not knowing anyone's position, would guess it's a base 4-3.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Since no one's mentioned it, I'll just point out that "Predator" formations have the weakside backer line up wide of the OT but in a 3 point stance. It's pretty much an aggressive pass-rushing formation because the guy way out there is committing himself to coming upfield around the OT generally.

[T-Moar]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

I was talking about the formations in NCAA '13, not necessarily how they are in real life. In the game, the over ed has all linemen on the line, unlike your diagram. It's aligned kinda like an exaggerated over/under with the OLB having his hand in the dirt and the DT/DE swapped. So the alignment is very similar to the base 4-3 formation but since there's 3-4 personnel they move 1 of the OLBs down on the line with the 3 D-linemen (and they swap the DT and RE). I'd bet most people would look at that 2nd picture and, not knowing anyone's position, would guess it's a base 4-3.

Oh? That's a nifty little quirk. Not gonna lie, I was just going off the in-game play art for my judgement of the Over Ed, since I don't really know that much about its real-life counterpart.

Also, after doing a little bit of research about the 3-4 Predator, what I found out is that it's not really a true 3-4. It's really a hybrid between the 3-4 and the 4-3.

Like the guy above me said, when you call a play from the Predator formation, the weak-side backer sticks his hand in the dirt, usually in order to rush the passer better, and basically turns into a defensive lineman, called the "Predator". This effectively switches the defense from a 3-4 Under to a 4-3 Over Defense. You'll notice that all three of these fronts have the same alignment art, and that's the difference between them.

I think it's fair to assume that the same relationship is also present in the 3-4 Over, 3-4 Solid, and 4-3 Under formations, although I haven't gotten the chance to to try them out. So, to recap:

Odd: DT is in the 1-gap.
Even: DT takes the 0-gap.
Over: Point of Attack is on the Strong side.
Under: Point of Attack is on the Weak side.
Over Ed: It's the 4-3 Stack/Base, but with 3-4 personnel.
Predator: It's the 4-3 Over, but with 3-4 personnel.
Solid: No confirmation here, but it's probably the 4-3 Under with 3-4 personnel.

[Mules8]

I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in since I played a 3-4 defense in college, more specifically defensive end and linebacker.

Under/over defenses are most often used in short yardage situations. It allows the 3-4 defense to solidify against between-the-tackles run game. And it's all determined by the strength of the defense. I believe someone mentioned b4 in Game you can flip the play. Under/over alignments differ slightly, but the main take away is the shift is completely based off the strength of the offense - over to the strong side, under to the weak.

The over Ed is not a typical 3-4 defense and I'm not sure why it's even in the game. Maybe to give your opponent a different look after playing the 3-4 for a few series.

Solid - is also a run situation defense. Specifically trying to control guard to guard and forcing the ball carrier to bounce out side so the inside linebackers can flow over top and make the tackle. The problem with playing this in NCAA is the outside linebackers are out of alignment and do not play the correct run gaps.

Most variations of the 3-4 are for situational use, and really can only be played with the right personnel. Like offensive packages, defenses have a strong side DE, DT, MLB, and OLB. Unless you have an stacked front 7 in NCAA you can get caught with having your best defensive players lined up on the weak side of your defense. (Which I hope is a next-gen addition)