NCAA 12 and it's off the field issues

[tweetintoucan]

Quote: Originally Posted by BizzyBobby23

Let's not forget that games don't have unlimited memory. There is likely a reason the sidelines look like crap and I'd bet it has to do with memory. Otherwise, they would simply just "copy and paste" another 70 full detail models to each sideline. I feel your pain. I avoid taking screenshots where you can see the sidelines. The game has 22 full detail models undergoing numerous animations at all times. Try to imagine playing a game at the big house with 100,000+ decently-detailed fan models. You'd be complaining that your console melted...

I see where you're coming from here, but Battlefield seems to run smoothly with 24 players playing on a wide open map with detailed graphics, I don't see why it's such a challenge for EA Sports to get it right with 22 people playing in a confined space. I probably shouldn't be comparing 2 completely different games, but oh well, its how I see it.

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by BizzyBobby23

Let's not forget that games don't have unlimited memory. There is likely a reason the sidelines look like crap and I'd bet it has to do with memory. Otherwise, they would simply just "copy and paste" another 70 full detail models to each sideline. I feel your pain. I avoid taking screenshots where you can see the sidelines. The game has 22 full detail models undergoing numerous animations at all times. Try to imagine playing a game at the big house with 100,000+ decently-detailed fan models. You'd be complaining that your console melted...

This is the issue right here. The 360 and PS3 hardware can only handle so many polygons while keeping a good framerate.

[PowerofRed25]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

This is the issue right here. The 360 and PS3 hardware can only handle so many polygons while keeping a good framerate.

Except any number of games, including some sports games, handle this without any problem. In most cases, they handle it while maintaining MUCH better graphics than any NCAA game to date.

Look at the crowd during a game of The Show, you can pick faces out, watch people slide in and out of rows and go up the aisles. There are small things like beach balls flying and all the while the game is going on.

Look at any of the NBA games, but especially 2K. You have coaches walking up and down court, each individual player on the bench acts differently, photographers on the baseline are there and the crowd is MUCH more realistic. In that game, you can get tangled up with coaches/players/refs/photographers out of bounds and it forces you to free yourself and get back down the court.

Non sports games like Battlefield, Socom, Call of Duty, etc all have massive maps where you are free to roam just about anywhere with gun fire, explosions, etc going off and not a single one has a problem.

Now without knowing too much about programming, I have to imagine none of these things are more difficult or more draining on memory than adding a full interactive sideline to either side of the NCAA field.

The PS3 and 360 are both very powerful machines, I think they could handle it just fine. The bottom line is EA doesn't feel it is important to have that authentic of an atmosphere. It is why the crowd and sideline has looked the same for years and years. I think they are gravely mistaken, other people could care less about this themselves.

All that said, IF EA put this in, I'd worry they would some how screw it up and it would have massive framerate/slow down issues. They haven't been able to fix menu slow down over the last 5 years, something like this would probably freeze the game.

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by PowerofRed25

Except any number of games, including some sports games, handle this without any problem. In most cases, they handle it while maintaining MUCH better graphics than any NCAA game to date. Look at the crowd during a game of The Show, you can pick faces out, watch people slide in and out of rows and go up the aisles. There are small things like beach balls flying and all the while the game is going on. Look at any of the NBA games, but especially 2K. You have coaches walking up and down court, each individual player on the bench acts differently, photographers on the baseline are there and the crowd is MUCH more realistic. In that game, you can get tangled up with coaches/players/refs/photographers out of bounds and it forces you to free yourself and get back down the court.

I don't play other sports games, but look @ what you're comparing to NCAA.

Basketball:
10 high res players vs. 22 high res players for football.

Baseball:
13 (max) high res players vs. 22 in football.

Then you get to the crowds.

It looks like the largest NBA stadium is a whopping 22,000. The largest MLB stadium looks to be 56,000. The Big House can house 111,000 and there's several college stadiums in the 90k - 100+k range.

Your comparing the graphics of games with half as many high res players and 20% -50% of the people in the crowd. You can't expect a crowd with 5 times the size to look as good as the small crowd.

[tweetintoucan]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

I don't play other sports games, but look @ what you're comparing to NCAA. Basketball: 10 high res players vs. 22 high res players for football. Baseball: 13 (max) high res players vs. 22 in football. Then you get to the crowds. It looks like the largest NBA stadium is a whopping 22,000. The largest MLB stadium looks to be 56,000. The Big House can house 111,000 and there's several college stadiums in the 90k - 100+k range. Your comparing the graphics of games with half as many high res players and 20% -50% of the people in the crowd. You can't expect a crowd with 5 times the size to look as good as the small crowd.

But what about FIFA? Year in and year out its probably the best developed game in the EA Sports catalog. They blend the graphics, sound and commentary so well that you feel like you're watching the game on TV at times. I guess that is more of a topic on gameplay rather than off the field cosmetics. I don't think it would slow the game down at all to have more detailed cut scenes of the surrounding terrain, landmarks, campus, etc., since they would mostly be shown before the game, between quarters, during timeouts, and after the game.

[jello1717]

Quote: Originally Posted by tweetintoucan

But what about FIFA? Year in and year out its probably the best developed game in the EA Sports catalog. They blend the graphics, sound and commentary so well that you feel like you're watching the game on TV at times. I guess that is more of a topic on gameplay rather than off the field cosmetics. I don't think it would slow the game down at all to have more detailed cut scenes of the surrounding terrain, landmarks, campus, etc., since they would mostly be shown before the game, between quarters, during timeouts, and after the game.

I don't play Fifa so I don't know about that game, but I'd imagine the crowd sizes are closer to college football than MLB and NBA and I don't know how many players are on soccer teams, but it's also probably closer to football. If Fifa is able to have significantly better looking crowds (I have no idea how theirs compares to NCAA) then NCAA should be able to do it too.

All of my comments are pertaining to the off-field looks during gameplay. Cutscenes are a completely different animal and won't have anywhere near as many people on the screen at once so they can be much more detailed than 100,000+ people during gameplay.

[Strings74]

Quote: Originally Posted by jello1717

I don't play other sports games, but look @ what you're comparing to NCAA. Basketball: 10 high res players vs. 22 high res players for football. Baseball: 13 (max) high res players vs. 22 in football. Then you get to the crowds. It looks like the largest NBA stadium is a whopping 22,000. The largest MLB stadium looks to be 56,000. The Big House can house 111,000 and there's several college stadiums in the 90k - 100+k range. Your comparing the graphics of games with half as many high res players and 20% -50% of the people in the crowd. You can't expect a crowd with 5 times the size to look as good as the small crowd.

They don't model tens of thousands of individual people, they do it with grids and there is always duplication and overlap but other titles tinker with it to make the effect look really, really good. There is no technical limitation to why this isn't done. It's a design decision.

But never mind that, the shooters really tell you all you need to know, imo.

EDIT: Heck, in The Show you have people grabbing at foul balls in the stands and reaching for them on the field and sometimes falling onto the field. Not to mention that the stadia look twice as good as those in NCAA12. Visually, (other than replays which look good on NCAA12) it makes NCAA 12 look like a PS2 game.

[tweetintoucan]

How about games like Assassin's Creed and the later Splinter Cell games, that feature large, interactive crowds of people? I think something along those lines would be perfect for the sidelines.

I guess this leads me to another question...if you could take technology or a feature from one title and implement it into NCAA or Madden, what would you use?

Also, Jello, give FIFA a shot sometime, you'll at least be pleasantly surprised.