NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

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1) You say real-time physics will improve PA Glitches (whatever those are) and shotgun running will be fixed. First, lets just nip it in the bud when it comes to real-time physics, Madden and NCAA won't have them in this generation of consoles. Say what you want about Backbreaker, the game was bare-bones when compared to NCAA (and Madden). Look at all the features, animations and graphical aspects of the game in comparison to Backbreaker.

The game was barebone because it was meant to show off the Euphoria engine (I believe). The fact is, Backbreakers major flaws were concerned with design choices, like giving the game arcade graphics, bad camera angle and analouge passing, but other than that the gameplay was superb.

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Backbreaker sells the Euphoria engine. NCAA sells college football, and everything about it. You think the memory in-game for NCAA could handle the Euphoria engine, along with every feature, pre-game, game mode, and every other small feature in the game?

Have you looked at Battlefield 3, that has to handle amazing graphics and what looks to be true top notch battlefield gameplay, and that is being put on the same disk.

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I doubt EA will take on the Euphoria engine, mainly because they're a top company and they've built on taking chances and making a name for itself. They'll probably have they're own animation engine for the next-gen consoles, and those aren't due for another 2-3 years.

This is most likely true, and probably won't hurt EA either due to the exclusiveness of the deals they have with the NFL and (did they renew with the NCAA). If not that might actually hurt them.

[JaySmooov]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pokes404

To expand on what you're saying, I can tell you what I believe to be the biggest problem with running out of the gun. It's how static the O-line/D-line interactions are.

Yeah I was gonna mention that too. I don't understand why blocking is different in Madden vs. NCAA. Madden has zone-blocking schemes, something that wouldn't work in NCAA because the OL in NCAA Football go head-to-head with their designated DL. I think it has more to do with how EA Sports scripts the shotgun running plays, because blocking works fine throughout except for the Gun. But blocking could also be a problem.

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I disagree with you about Backbreaker though. NCAA is the bare-bones game to me because none of the features, presentation elements, and/or game modes they add do me any good if I can't stand playing the game on the field.

I don't understand how you think NCAA is bare-bones. By bare-bones I meant, the only thing the Backbreaker series has is gameplay. No commentary, no real teams or players, just mainly the gameplay/Euphoria engine is what customers are sold on. I think that's why their next release is coming on XBL, it wouldn't make sense to produce the game on discs when there isn't heavy interest. I'm not even considering NCAA's gameplay, just how much goes into the games. In this generation of systems, adding the Euphoria engine along with keeping everything in the game, minus the gameplay animations, would take up too much memory. Think of GTA 4, which had Euphoria, and think of everything that goes into that game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiser Wilhelm

The game was barebone because it was meant to show off the Euphoria engine (I believe). The fact is, Backbreakers major flaws were concerned with design choices, like giving the game arcade graphics, bad camera angle and analouge passing, but other than that the gameplay was superb.

No. Just no. I played Backbreaker, and gameplay is average at best. Mario running is a no-no, and I'm not a fan of being thrown around like a rag-doll EVERY play. Those graphics are there to stay because the Euphoria engine takes up most of the memory, coupled with the fact that they probably don't have much of a budget. And Backbreaker wasn't meant to show off Euphoria; GTA 4 had it as well. It was meant to show (apparently) how realistic gameplay could be. IMO it isn't very realistic.

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Have you looked at Battlefield 3, that has to handle amazing graphics and what looks to be true top notch battlefield gameplay, and that is being put on the same disk.

Yes, but consider that the engine was optimized FOR Battlefield 3. Also, consider that the only thing the system/disc is running is the gameplay, and everything that interacts with it. (Basically, like running only the on-the-field parts of Madden/NCAA.) They don't have to worry about things like stat overlays, rosters, things interacting on field randomly, etc. We wouldn't want a situation where a game lags out of the box because too much is in it.

ALSO, remember, that engine was made by EA, which I'm pretty sure EA will make an animation engine for it's sports games in the future.

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This is most likely true, and probably won't hurt EA either due to the exclusiveness of the deals they have with the NFL and (did they renew with the NCAA). If not that might actually hurt them.

I don't think it will hurt EA, short term, even if they don't retain exclusivity. No one is prepared to put out a yearly college football game to threaten EA's sales, and I doubt 2K is willing to pay for a license. They still have to worry about EA's return to basketball, which I think will be a success.

[Ronnie brown23]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiser Wilhelm

The game was barebone because it was Have you looked at Battlefield 3, that has to handle amazing graphics and what looks to be true top notch battlefield gameplay, and that is being put on the same disk.

you do realize that 99% of the Battlefield 3 footage is from PC. which can do far more graphically and still play at a smooth 60 fps at the sametime. this generation of consoles cant do that.

[mike24forever]

Quote: Originally Posted by derrickm10

for the tuner pack they need to add primary shoe change color mouth pieces eye paint helmets pop off when you get hit and tattoes on players short dreads hang out of helmet in braids hang out of helmet and long hair.mor they need dynasty disciplen cbs abc espnu telivision instead of always espn. change hair color.

This is why new members should not be allowed to post more then 1 post per day for a period time, at which time a mod can increase their posting limits. Unbelievable!!!

[patsfan1993]

Quote: Originally Posted by ms24forever

This is why new members should not be allowed to post more then 1 post per day for a period time, at which time a mod can increase their posting limits. Unbelievable!!!

Can we put this to a vote? This would clean up a bunch of crap.

[Kid FSU]

Quote: Originally Posted by JaySmooov

They still have to worry about EA's return to basketball, which I think will be a success.

Everything except for this.lol

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

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I'm not even considering NCAA's gameplay, just how much goes into the games.

Gameplay is everything! What good is a game that doesn't play correctly, and also has major flaws in in flagship feature (dynasty roster bugs and tendency to create extremes at bothe the top and bottom) that make playing the game from a stratagy perspective annoying.

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No. Just no. I played Backbreaker, and gameplay is average at best. Mario running is a no-no, and I'm not a fan of being thrown around like a rag-doll EVERY play. Those graphics are there to stay because the Euphoria engine takes up most of the memory, coupled with the fact that they probably don't have much of a budget. And Backbreaker wasn't meant to show off Euphoria; GTA 4 had it as well. It was meant to show (apparently) how realistic gameplay could be. IMO it isn't very realistic.

I played BB too, and in my opinion many of the issues came from the design choices. The other issues, such as the rag-doll issue...eh, you got me there.

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Yes, but consider that the engine was optimized FOR Battlefield 3. Also, consider that the only thing the system/disc is running is the gameplay, and everything that interacts with it. (Basically, like running only the on-the-field parts of Madden/NCAA.) They don't have to worry about things like stat overlays, rosters, things interacting on field randomly, etc. We wouldn't want a situation where a game lags out of the box because too much is in it.

So What is stopping EA from making an engine optimized for this game. The current engine is clearly dated (cant really speak in a definitive but based off what I see in other games it seems either old or just not up to snuff). The other issues you mention, well I'm not asking for BF3 graphics, I'm content with NCAA 09 graphics if it means I can really feel like my players are playing football in this universe.

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ALSO, remember, that engine was made by EA, which I'm pretty sure EA will make an animation engine for it's sports games in the future.

I believe the engine was made by Dice, which (if I am not mistaken) works as an autonomous development studio under EA. Might be wrong there but that is how things seem.

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I don't think it will hurt EA, short term, even if they don't retain exclusivity. No one is prepared to put out a yearly college football game to threaten EA's sales, and I doubt 2K is willing to pay for a license. They still have to worry about EA's return to basketball, which I think will be a success.

I dont think so either, but it is a possibility. Also I hope EA makes a good BBall game, healthy competition can only benefit the consumer. I think 2k needs to get into the CHoops action again though.

[mrprice33]

Lot of people in this thread putting out a lot of misinformation.

NCAA/Madden doesn't have Euphoria not because of disk space, but because EA can't (or won't) figure out how to properly implement it into the game. At this point, it would take years to implement a full physics system into a game as complicated on the field as NCAA. The scripting, AI routines, and animations far outpace what happens in the moment to moment of an FPS. Additionally, the physics in those games are limited to things such as buildings and death animations. Here, you have potentially 22 separate entities having to be able to interact realistically at the same time. The comparison isn't valid.

At this point, we're way too late in the console cycle to justify the amount of money that would be put into developing a system like this for NCAA/Madden. The return on investment just wouldn't be there.

With regards to shotgun running, the main issues IMO in 11 were a couple of things.

1) The actual animation was way too slow. The defenders would get upfield by the time you made your read, and the transition (especially if the QB kept the ball) from the handoff animation to the running animation was too long. By the time you got going, the defenders were there.

2) The defenders read the play too well. It's pretty easy to destroy a zone read if 5 guys are swarming the exchange between the QB and RB. The blocking didn't hold up long enough, and the defenders did not respect the pass.

3) The blocking schemes and hole recognition (especially by the CPU RB). This has kinda been worked over in this thread. Basically, the play should be designed to get the DL moving one way or another, which doesn't really happen. The RB then has to read the hole properly. The first problem leads into the second.

True physics would fix the blocking problem (hopefully), but I don't think it would fix the AI (BB had terrible AI) nor the length of the animation/acceleration. Those are your fixes. Get the play moving a little faster (same with PA, QB's sometimes use quick looks, or stutter steps, or quick flicks with the wrist to sell PA, as opposed to the long, drawn out PA in the game now), and get the line moving, and shotgun running will work a lot better.