Stopping the Spread Offense

[Phobia]

Well it seems like the name of the game in APF was the spread offense. Lobby players seem to build a spread based team only. This lead to the issue of the much debated "Defense is broken" threads. Which were mainly pointed towards the dreaded "out routes and Corner routes". Some of us still hold firm that anything in the game can stopped. That the defense is not broken by any means.

STOPPING THE SPREAD

Goals of the spread
1) Spreading the defense thin
2) Takes away secondary blitz
3) Empty the box, easier to run
4) Take what the defense throws at it. Deep or dink & dunk
5) Easy to see defense alignment

Weakness of the Spread
1) Less blocking for the QB & run game.
2) Clock control
3) INT prone
4) Big points or go home
5) Alot of pressure on the O-line

The whole goal of the spread is to allow their QB to have a easier time reading the defense and allow him to take what is thrown at him. If the defense presses at the line, he can easily hit a man up fade route. If the defense shows zone, he can pick the zone apart all game.

So how do we go about stopping the spread???? You don't!! You can only hope to contain it, force turnovers, and maintain the ball with clock management to give their offense as few downs as possible.

The spread is designed on speed. So matching Speed vs Speed is your first goal. If you can match their playmakers in the speed department you have just gave yourself a fighting chance. Next, you HAVE to win in the trenchs. If the QB does not get pressured, it will be a very long game. You have to have Gap Responsibility and Pursuit Discipline. Having a stud D-line to put pressure on the QB and force him out of rhythm. Force him to make throws early and give your corners and safties a chance at the pick. The one area the spread can really be brought to its knees, is with the D-line. Forcing the QB out the pocket, releasing the ball early, and sacking the QB are goals all spread stopping defenses should key on.

Next is sure tacklers. Most people are like, "what you mean sure tacklers?" Well most offensive schemes have taught defense to play "gang tackling" football. The spread removes this. From now on you need solid open field tackling. Defenders who can bring down that playmaker in the open field are HUGE! Without these guys you will see small dink and dunks turned into huge big plays. Building a team with a core of solid tacklers will greatly help in yards after the catch. The spread will force your defense to spread over the field with much more open space, so the chance of big plays after a missed tackle are that much greater.

I mentioned Gap Responsibility and Pursuit Discipline earlier. This also applies in the Zone run game. You might see a few spread teams coming out and using the zone run game to get the defense to over pursuit and cut it back for big games in the open field caused by the spread. You need a D-line who can completely shut down the run game. Forcing the ball in the air as much as possible. This makes clock management for them tougher.

On to clock management, I stated how you can't hope to STOP the spread. You can only hope to contain it. This is where the spread offense can be very weak against a "pound the rock" team. Clock control is going to be a big key of your designed offense to stop the spread. Wait, offense designed to stop the spread? Yup, thats right. Having a power back who can pick up those 3-4 yards per carry, slowly pounding the defense into a pulp and milking the clock. Will go a long way in giving that spread offense as few touchs as possible and giving you a much greater chance at limiting its chance of beating you.

So what kind of builds are we talking about? There is many many different builds one could come up with. I am going to give a few ideas. They won't be indepth, but will give you a idea of what you are shooting for in a build.

Air control
4 star corners - Playing Dime all game
2 Star DE's - Designed to get after the QB
2 star Safeties - Over the top help
1 Star HB - Big power back
1 Star FB - Big blocker for your back
1 Star MLB - Stopping the dink & dunk middle of field + run stopper

Clock Control
1 Star HB - Power back
1 Star FB - Big blocker for back
1 star TE - Good short yardage converter + blocker for HB
2 Star Guards - Open up those DT's and give holes for that HB
1 Star Center - Same as above
2 Star Corners - Stopping the star wideouts
2 Star safeties - Helping out with 4 WR's + over the top
1 Star MLB - Controlling middle of field

Additions welcome. I did not go in schemes, plays, fronts, adjustments, etc, etc. There is a wealth of info that can be thrown around. I am going to leave this area open, since all coachs have their own ideaology of what to do to stop this and that.

Example of this would be something I like to do. Press the short side of the field WR on his inside shoulder, forcing him outside with much less field to play with. Then the far side WR, press on his outside shoulder forcing him towards the safety. Also shifting the backers over to the strong side of the field can also cut down on the open slant with the outside press. Thus limiting their WR's to as few open field areas as possible.

Later guys
PHOBIA

[RogueHominid]

I used to try to match up player for player with these sorts of offenses, but I have found that it is much more effective to force the issue with pressure. Quick and consistent pressure will negate longer plays, as they won't have the time to develop, and it will cause most players to throw into coverage and give up turnovers.

You can do that with ends, overload blitzes with linebackers, and even blitzes from one of the safety or nickle positions. That's just my personal preference when it comes to these kinds of offenses, and for me it works pretty well.

[CreatineKasey]

Great post!

I almost always give up talent man for man in the secondary-WR battle. Too often I have seen higher tier DB's get burnt by lower tier or same tier recievers. It just isn't worth it for me. I take a similar approach to Trojan that breaks into 2 categories for 2 defenses = 3-4 or 4-3

Team Design 4-3:

2 DL (Silvers and Bronzes)
1 LB (Gold)
2 DB's (Silver and Bronzes)

For my 4-3 I try to play similar to the 70's Steelers. I rely on my front 4 to make the QB uncomfortable and oftentimes I rely on them to take away the longer developing, more effective pass plays. Having a good DL and gold ILB not only pressures the QB, but should almost completely nullify the run and force the offense to pass as you described.

At this point the ILB is mostly used to take away the middle of the field and really make it difficult to throw there. I move manual control where necessary and sometimes take away the wide side of the field manually, or whevever my opponent's tendencies lie. Turnovers seem hard to come by sometimes and sacks seem far more frequent.

Team Design 3-4:

0-1 DL (Bronze)
3-4 LB's (All Tiers)
2-3 DB's (All Tiers)

This team plays the spread a bit more aggressively actually sending players to blitz and moving defenses to unorthodox positions in an attempt to get the QB to hesitate a split second more. This design is more capable of dominance, but has a feast or famine feel to it.

With this build I've held a loaded spread offense to 16 total yards with a ball control offense and relentless pressure. I feel the hybrid, athletic pass rushing OLB's are the key to this defense. They stop the run and sack the QB. These resemble the current Steeler scheme.

Keys are constant movement of the secondary, and blitzing from different places. Complacency and becoming predictable will spell a huge defeat. Staying 1 step ahead of your opponent warrants single digit scores and shut-outs- no question.

If people ask what I call the most I'd have to say Everything! I call every coverage throughout a game with this defense. If I think you're going deep first down, it's cover 4. If I think you'll go for the sticks on third and medium, cover 2 soft. Do I think you're going for a big zone breaker on 3rd and long? Cover 1 blitz!

This team counters the spread handedly at times. I send some good blitz packages involving 6 blitzers that usually take on 5 blockers and I rely on pressure and solid tackling by the DB's to kill drives, especially on 3rd and long. Long routes just can't develop and it really handcuffs what your opponent can do.

[dunelly]

There's really only 4 real coverages in this game.

2 hard,2soft, cover 3, and man. No route recognition +Slow blitzing + ability to see the entire field = spread offense is impossible to stop if the user is good enough.

[kjell1979]

If you have a Silver or Gold DE, this can really cause problems for the spread. Less blockers means that they can have the freedom to get pressure on the QB without the threat of double teams. Blitzes to the opposite side of the star DE can ensure the guard and tackle won't team up on your DE. Then just mix up your zone coverages and throw in a few random defensive hot routes so the QB has to figure out where the gaps are. That extra time allows your DE to get the the QB or force bad throws.

I tend to find that even non-star TEs and FBs negate that star DE. The extra blocker does remove a potential receiver in the passing game, but they can also chip block or even release into the flat at times. But without those extra potential blockers the star DE is free to run wild. Rush only 4 and he has the freedom to rush in an unpredictable way because there's no need to open a lane for a blitzer.

The advantage the spread has in APF is it can take some of the defensive stars off the field. I remember the Packers doing this to the Ravens many years ago. The Ravens had so much talent in their base defense, so the Packers went with the spread and forced their stars off the field in exchange for inexperienced nickle and dime backs. Ray Lewis had to play coverage all day and Favre torched them. Same thing here. This is why you have to be careful who you pick on defense because if you lose a star linebacker or two because you're stuck in dime all game, the deck is stacked against you. Also the spread can also force star players into roles that do not fit their special abilities too. Like you might have a speedburner CB, but you can't play man because your nickle and dime backs can't matchup with their extra receivers.

Anyway those are my thoughts.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjell1979

The advantage the spread has in APF is it can take some of the defensive stars off the field. I remember the Packers doing this to the Ravens many years ago. The Ravens had so much talent in their base defense, so the Packers went with the spread and forced their stars off the field in exchange for inexperienced nickle and dime backs. Ray Lewis had to play coverage all day and Favre torched them. Same thing here. This is why you have to be careful who you pick on defense because if you lose a star linebacker or two because you're stuck in dime all game, the deck is stacked against you.

This is good stuff. This is also exactly why I only like 1 legend LB, and I make it count usually being a gold so I'm still powerful in my base formation. If I do select an OLB it is one with pass rush bonus that gets in a 3 point stance on passing formations. Legends are too valuable to have off the field. Having a single gold LB can make you viable against base offenses who run a balanced attack and you can still adjust and keep your big LB on the field when you get spread out and ideally not lose any strength.

I still feel the spread is NOT unstoppable. Even if your opponent knows how to perfectly read and break every zone you do, you can still manually control guys in the expected area and take away the expected counter, so the chess match continues.

You guys ever do man/zone combos? I do fun ones where 1 half of the field is in 2 hard and the other half is in 2 man. For quick passing offenses this can really mess him up and lead to those big sacks.

Another point: Ideally those DE's with ball strip would have significant importance because they would be a great source of turnovers along with those sacks. If anyone has tips on fumble produciton, I'd thank you for sharing. I've been trying to figure out forcing fumbles in this game since it was released.

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by dunelly

There's really only 4 real coverages in this game. 2 hard,2soft, cover 3, and man. No route recognition +Slow blitzing + ability to see the entire field = spread offense is impossible to stop if the user is good enough.

This doesn't apply to me, personally I think a Spread Offense is the easiest to stop as long as you avoid the jacked up rice, coates, maynard combos, with the new streak cheese.

[Phobia]

I see dunelly is still lurking around with his negative posts.


Last night I played a spread player (who went for it every 4th down....... ). I came out in my spread/run stopping team. Which is broken down like this.

Gold - CB (shut down one side of the field)
Gold - DT (Nullify those runs, and pressure up the gut)

Silver - HB - (Chris Warren - Work horse for the long drives)
Silver - CB (Help other side of field)
Silver - Guard (LOVE a good pulling guard, wow did it work)

Bronze - DE (pressure on QB. pass rushing DE)
Bronze - SS (Help over the top)
Bronze - FS (Same as above)
Bronze - QB (Playfake ability, for those needed short pass plays)
Bronze - FB (Blocker for my HB, combined with the Guard)
Bronze - DE (Another DE for more pressure)

Well the game was a complete joke, but I stuck it out to make a point to the little punk. I held him to 20 points all game. He came out winging it which I figured would happen. I came out in nickle, sent heat from the MLB, used the correct line movement to force him certain directions (He had cunningham of course). Well the little kid started throwing slants, just quick slants. I started playing inside on him and using different shells to give him fits. After his first drive ended near my 40ty and he came out going for it on 4th and long. I knew it was going to be a long game. I had the correct call but his wideout just beat the coverage on a post route, COMPLETE FIRST DOWN!!. I was highly upset but stuck to my guns and forced a INT like two plays later.

Then I gave it to Mr. Warren and just started pounding ISO's. (I lined the Guard up at right Guard since most stars line up left side). Having him pulling and running behind him was a nice gain each and every run. Slowly moving down the field. I drove down to his 1 yard line and then punched it in with my star FB. 7-0

I did not mention but this kid had a created 5 ability Barry Sanders. He gave him Branch tackles, Power & speed, etc. I was sooo annoyed, he was throwing all the cheese he could. Barry was running like he was Earl Campbell, breaking tackle after tackle. He finished with a good game no less.

Well the game came down to it being 21-20, me up with 30 something secs left. He runs a weak side toss from his own 20 yard line, breaks a tackle.....shoulder charges the safety...bounces down the sideline...I catch him around the 10 yard line. 10 to 15 secs are left on the clock and what does he do, runs the same play opposite direction. Not a big deal, but same thing. Corner sheds the WR block, goes for the hit....Boom barry breaks the tackle and walks in taking the lead 27-21 to win the game.

It was a good game if you took out the following

- Created Barry with unreal abilities
- Going for it on every 4th
- Pausing, unpausing, pausing, unpausing AGGGGGGGG
- Kickoffs corner of field causing my guy to run out of bounds near 5 yard line regularly

I don't complain about plays but when people take advantage of the AI to cause some of this crap I get sooo pissed. I just wish by this time all the cheesers moved on to other games to cheese in.