The 2013 NBA Playoffs

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ewing was playing defense and rebounding, something Carmelo doesn't do. And winning games.

Except against Hakeem

SI

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I didn't watch a single second of the finals. Did I miss anything?

[Arles]

Jordan's first 3 playoffs:
Lost 3-1
Lost 3-0
Lost 3-0

He was 1-9 for his first 10 playoff games over 3 seasons.

Lebron:
7-6
12-8
7-6

Lebron won more series (5) than Jordan did games (1) in their first 3 playoff seasons. Here are players 2-7 on that Cavs team that went to the finals:
Larry Hughes (14 PPG, 3 RPG, 40% FG, 33% 3)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (11 PPG, 7.5 RPG)
Drew Gooden (11 PPG, 8 RPG)
Donyell Marshall (7 PPG, 4 RPG, 42% FG, 35% 3)
Eric Snow (4.2 PPG, 4.2 APG, 41% FG)
Anderson Varejao (6.8 PPG, 6.5 RPG)

That is by far the worst 2-7 to ever make the finals. The only one close would be the Iverson 76ers, but they still had real NBA players like Mutumbo, Kukoc, Theo Ratliff, Aaron McKie and Eric Snow when he was younger .

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I didn't watch a single second of the finals. Did I miss anything?

Travelling. Lots and lots of travelling.

(Guessing, I watched very little.)

[RainMaker]

The 2007 Cavs team would not have gotten out of the first round in the West. You're really underestimating how bad that Conference is/was. It is definitely one of the worst 2-7 to ever make a Finals though, I agree. I'd still probably put the 99 Knicks or 02 Nets 2-7 up against that Cavs any day of the week.

And 2 of those early Jordan playoff series was against the Celtics who one year won the title, and the next lost in 6. I don't think Lebron ever faced a team as talented as those mid-80's Celtics in the 1st round, let alone ever.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The revisionist history on those Cavs teams is great. They won 66 games and probably could have come close to 70 if they didn't rest guys at the end. They obviously had flaws, but they weren't a poo poo platter. You don't win that many games with a poo poo platter no matter who is on your team.
.

what was their record the year after LeBron left?

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

what was their record the year after LeBron left?

It was awesome, just look at this letter to the fans from Gilbert... I mean they have had two #1 picks since he left...#sarcasm

Open Letter to Fans from Cavaliers Majority Owner Dan Gilbert | THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Travelling. Lots and lots of travelling.

(Guessing, I watched very little.)

Hockey nerds, vamonos. I don't go into the Stanley Cup thread and say "What happened? Well, probably a bunch of fugly Canadians hit each other"

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by yeah826

You mean the Eastern Conference finals where he lead his team in points assist rebounds steals and blocks against a great defensive Celtics team. Or the NBA finals where he lead a team whose 2nd best player was Larry Hughes where he lost to an NBA Dynasty of the Spurs with Prime Duncan Ginobli and Parker.

Only thing you really can count against him is the Mavs vs Heat finals

McHale, Pippen, Jabbar, Hughes... sounds right...

[murrayyyyy]

So Duncan (4), Parker (3), and Ginobli (3) rings may be more than Jordan ever played against in his last 5 titles.

Just trying to think aloud and I'm sure I missed someone but rings minus the Bulls-Lakers series.

91 Trailblazers: Ainge (2)
92 Suns: Ainge (2) Rambis (4)
95 Sonics (no one, Payton won with Heat later)
96 Jazz (no one)
97 Jazz (no one, Vaughn won with Spurs later)

According to Jordan, it's all about rings so looks like he played no one.

[RainMaker]

That may be one of the most retarded arguments I've ever seen.

[Arles]

This Spurs team was better than any team MJ beat in the finals. I would go so far as to say the Thunder were better than most. The Rondo, Ray, KG and Pierce Celtics were better than every team in the East MJ went through outside of maybe the one Detroit team in his first title.

In terms of quality opponents beaten, the Spurs, Thunder, Celtics and even this year's Pacers team were all comparable (if not better) than who Jordan beat.

Now, they're not as good as the Celtics teams of the 80s or the late 80s Pistons, but Jordan couldn't beat those teams either. The Heat/Cavs/Knicks/ Pacers of the 90s were all fairly flawed teams and none would have a chance against the "big 4" Celtics.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That may be one of the most retarded arguments I've ever seen.

lebron single handly lost the mavs series for the heat. I didnt watch after game four. The heat were raping the spurs and not getting called. Surprise the spurs kept it close as long as they did. Nba is a joke, all about money and making sure the series went back to Miami. Worst officiating I ever saw would be in game 4.

[molson]

Can't we settle all this in latest version of fast break pro basketball?

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by molson

Can't we settle all this in latest version of fast break pro basketball?

Not until this moment did I realize that Molson and HeavyReign are the same person Nice plug, but I saw what you did there, HeavyMolson.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

This Spurs team was better than any team MJ beat in the finals. I would go so far as to say the Thunder were better than most. The Rondo, Ray, KG and Pierce Celtics were better than every team in the East MJ went through outside of maybe the one Detroit team in his first title.

In terms of quality opponents beaten, the Spurs, Thunder, Celtics and even this year's Pacers team were all comparable (if not better) than who Jordan beat.

Again, this is ridiculous. The 1997 Jazz teams is considered the best team to never win a title by a lot of people. They won 64 games in a tough conference and plowed through a loaded Rockets team in 6 games. Even the 1998 Jazz team was better than this year's Spurs (although not as good as the 97 Jazz or 96 Sonics).

The 1996 Sonics were also a really good team. They took 2 games from the 72-win Bulls in that series, both by double digits. They won 64 games and were dominant in the second half of the season. Had a point differential of nearly 8.

As for the rest, I'd probably put them right around where the Spurs are. Won around 58-62 games and had a similar differential. That Blazers team crushed a really good Western Conference that year. Lakers are probably the best comparison to the Spurs. Team with good veteran talent that was just a little past their time.

Originally Posted by Arles

Now, they're not as good as the Celtics teams of the 80s or the late 80s Pistons, but Jordan couldn't beat those teams either. The Heat/Cavs/Knicks/ Pacers of the 90s were all fairly flawed teams and none would have a chance against the "big 4" Celtics.

And please tell me you are kidding about the Rondo/KG/Ray/Pierce Celtics. They were a 48 win team last year. Nearly last in offense. Needed 6 games to beat the Hawks without their best player and 7 games to beat the 8th seeded Sixers. They would have been beaten in 5 or 6 games by the Bulls had Rose and Noah not gotten hurt. How can you possibly compare them to the 60+ win teams that were in the East those years? Basketball existed more than 3 years ago you know?

Now if you're talking about the 2008 team, I'm all ears. The fact Lebron was able to take them to 7 games with that supporting cast is one of his most impressive feats. That particular Boston team is a top 10 team of all time. But the Celtics never had a team close to that caliber again.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Except against Hakeem

SI

Best Comment Ever.

As for this debate, I'm in the Jordan is just a bit overrated camp. Would have loved to see him in a finals against Olajuwon. I don't disagree Jordan was a phenomenal player, but the 90s were a watered down era. But if James better? I don't know. I've seen James play super human, and I've seen him look disinterested. Can't say I ever saw Jordan disinterested.

The 90s Sonics and Jazz teams were very good teams, but not sure they are great. Then again, the Heat beat an inexperience Thunder team and a slightly past their prime Spurs team (by just how gassed they looked at times last night).

Just out of curiosity, I went to WhatIfSports (which has flaws, but still) and played a home-away series with the 96 Bulls and 13 Heat. The 96 Bulls won both, by 7(away) and 8 (home).
For kicks, I did the same with the 96 Bulls and 94 Rockets. They split.

[SirFozzie]

Interesting: Even if the Spurs had scored at the end of game six and won, they would have likely faced a protest (and a do-over), due to an illegal substitution by the Spurs (wouldn't that mean a technical foul and shots for Miami?)

NBA: Tim Duncan illegally entered Game 6 for crucial*possession | SI Wire

[Noop]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Interesting: Even if the Spurs had scored at the end of game six and won, they would have likely faced a protest (and a do-over), due to an illegal substitution by the Spurs (wouldn't that mean a technical foul and shots for Miami?)

NBA: Tim Duncan illegally entered Game 6 for crucial*possession | SI Wire

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=674

Originally Posted by Noop

The only person with some damn sense.

Let's not forget the illegal substitution by the Spurs when they did not have any timeouts, but were able to get Duncan in the game for the final play. Or the fact that the Spurs shot more free throws and had less fouls called on them.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Arles

This Spurs team was better than any team MJ beat in the finals. I would go so far as to say the Thunder were better than most. The Rondo, Ray, KG and Pierce Celtics were better than every team in the East MJ went through outside of maybe the one Detroit team in his first title.

In terms of quality opponents beaten, the Spurs, Thunder, Celtics and even this year's Pacers team were all comparable (if not better) than who Jordan beat.

Now, they're not as good as the Celtics teams of the 80s or the late 80s Pistons, but Jordan couldn't beat those teams either. The Heat/Cavs/Knicks/ Pacers of the 90s were all fairly flawed teams and none would have a chance against the "big 4" Celtics.

The Suns with Barkley never get any love. Utah was the eternal underachieving team but had talent including two hall of famers. Seattle also had two all-stars on their team. You can only downplay the older teams so much.