Only the Detroit Lions could do this

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I am so hoping the search committee contacts me for an assistant GM position. I'm qualified, right?

Ten years programming an imaginary football game? Therefore I can work for an imaginary football team.

Real life pro soccer team to use Football Manager 2009 game database for scouting - Neoseeker News Article

Keith Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you ought to do it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I am so hoping the search committee contacts me for an assistant GM position. I'm qualified, right?

Depends.

Does your wife have any relatives in the organization?

[flere-imsaho]

I think the problem is that Jim would be overqualified. To whit:

managers job

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That's what makes this whole thing just so speical.

I think the word you're looking for is fecal and yes, as a lifetime achievement award maybe, but again, when it comes to all time sucktitude, most people really don't remember how bad the buccaneers were or for how long.

Between 1976-2009 the Lions had ( will have ) 13 double digit losing seasons. The Bucs have had 19. Hell, they had a glorious streak of 12 10+ loss seasons in a row. They then took a break and only lost 9 but made up for it with a 6-10 record which finally got us Tony Dungy.

So, any way you slice it, this old man who had to live and die by my team through every single one of those years isn't going to let some mediocre team having a particularly bad season claim all time suckiness champ so easily. 12 double digit loss seasons in a row. That son, is ineptitude.

Of course, it made 1/26/2003 one of the most satisfying days of my life.

[Axxon]

Dola,

Gotta admit it's close though. It really is.

Oh, and look at it this way. Tampa Bay gave the Lions Wayne Fontes and Rod Marinelli so we've given you both your best and worst coaches in your history.

[Axxon]

Trola, it seems the Lions are far from the worst franchise in NFL history. Lifetime w/l percentages.

Lions .463

Cardinals .413 //. and they've been in the league 10 years longer than the Lions so...

Falcons .409
Bengals .433

Texans .355
Saints .411
Jets .454
Buccaneers .400

So, not counting the Texans who are still a new team, guess who's on the bottom of the list by a good margin??

Stats through 2008
hxxp://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/

[Schmidty]

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, but I just can't anymore. I am beaten down. I've never felt this numb before. It's an odd feeling being numb and hopeless about a team, a tradition that you've grown up with just become a trash heap with not a glimpse of light of the future.

Sports aren't supposed to break your heart like real life does, but when things like my uncle dying, one of the most hardcore fans ever, with out ever seeing a Super Bowl and only one playoff victory in his life, is just........gut-wrenching.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Trola, it seems the Lions are far from the worst franchise in NFL history. Lifetime w/l percentages.

Lions .463

Cardinals .413 //. and they've been in the league 10 years longer than the Lions so...

Falcons .409
Bengals .433

Texans .355
Saints .411
Jets .454
Buccaneers .400

So, not counting the Texans who are still a new team, guess who's on the bottom of the list by a good margin??

Stats through 2008
hxxp://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I guess the one upside to this whole 0-16 thing will be that we wont have to listen to Bengals or Cardinals fans when debating which is the worst NFL franchise of all time.

That debate will be over.

I already covered this.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Trola, it seems the Lions are far from the worst franchise in NFL history. Lifetime w/l percentages.

Lions .463

Cardinals .413 //. and they've been in the league 10 years longer than the Lions so...

Falcons .409
Bengals .433

Texans .355
Saints .411
Jets .454
Buccaneers .400

So, not counting the Texans who are still a new team, guess who's on the bottom of the list by a good margin??

Stats through 2008
hxxp://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/

And now look at how many of those teams have at least been to a Super Bowl. The Bucs won a Super Bowl and a recent one at that. Do you see Tampa's .400 going lower? Do you see Detroit's going higher? Also note Detroit gets to play at home during a short week for Thanksgiving and then gets a long week for it's next game. I believe this year Detroit got the long week and then played Minnesota who played on Monday Night. Tampa has had Dungy and Gruden for coaches. The best the Lions got under the Fords was Fontes. Shall we compare QBs? Does "Tampa Cover 2" sound familar? Does anybody name much of anything after the Lions defensive, or offensive systems?

[Danny]

The Lions W/L % is also higher because when they were playing in the 40's-60's before the AFL/NFL merger that actually were not terrible.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, but I just can't anymore. I am beaten down. I've never felt this numb before. It's an odd feeling being numb and hopeless about a team, a tradition that you've grown up with just become a trash heap with not a glimpse of light of the future.

Sports aren't supposed to break your heart like real life does, but when things like my uncle dying, one of the most hardcore fans ever, with out ever seeing a Super Bowl and only one playoff victory in his life, is just........gut-wrenching.

I recommend you go turn on a Red Wings game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

I recommend you go turn on a Red Wings game.

Sound advice. It works wonders for me.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Matthean

And now look at how many of those teams have at least been to a Super Bowl. The Bucs won a Super Bowl and a recent one at that. Do you see Tampa's .400 going lower? Do you see Detroit's going higher? Also note Detroit gets to play at home during a short week for Thanksgiving and then gets a long week for it's next game. I believe this year Detroit got the long week and then played Minnesota who played on Monday Night. Tampa has had Dungy and Gruden for coaches. The best the Lions got under the Fords was Fontes. Shall we compare QBs? Does "Tampa Cover 2" sound familar? Does anybody name much of anything after the Lions defensive, or offensive systems?

All I'm hearing from Lion fans is that they trump both the worst season ever and the worst all time because they happen to suck now.

The Bucs were both worse for a single season and for all times. So what if they won't have their record overall get worse. Do I see Detroit's winning percentage rising? Of course I do.

Certainly not this season and likely not next but it will happen. Can you honestly say you have less reason to believe that the Lions will get better than the Bucs did when they ripped off their 12th consecutive double digit loss season?

No, not really. But guess what, owners die, they sell teams, things happen. How about Miami and Atlanta this season? Atlanta, of course, is still worse than the Lions historically. How long would it take for them to rise past the Lions and their only 7th worst record of all times? It's not happening anytime soon I can tell you. It'll take even longer for the Bucs to rise past them.

Detroit will come back and will maybe even get to a playoff game again eventually. It's bound to happen. All they have to do is marginally improve and they can win the North.

I know it's really a down time for Lions fans and I can understand the frustration because I've been there but I'm just calling you guys on the hyperbole. They're not the worst franchise ever and they will get marginally better. It is inevitable.

[Thomkal]

No it just gets worse when your long suffering team finally makes the playoffs then gets called the "worst playoff team in NFL history" like my beloved Cards have been called after the last few weeks of games

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Axxon

All I'm hearing from Lion fans is that they trump both the worst season ever and the worst all time because they happen to suck now.

The Bucs were both worse for a single season and for all times. So what if they won't have their record overall get worse. Do I see Detroit's winning percentage rising? Of course I do.

Certainly not this season and likely not next but it will happen. Can you honestly say you have less reason to believe that the Lions will get better than the Bucs did when they ripped off their 12th consecutive double digit loss season?

No, not really. But guess what, owners die, they sell teams, things happen. How about Miami and Atlanta this season? Atlanta, of course, is still worse than the Lions historically. How long would it take for them to rise past the Lions and their only 7th worst record of all times? It's not happening anytime soon I can tell you. It'll take even longer for the Bucs to rise past them.

Detroit will come back and will maybe even get to a playoff game again eventually. It's bound to happen. All they have to do is marginally improve and they can win the North.

I know it's really a down time for Lions fans and I can understand the frustration because I've been there but I'm just calling you guys on the hyperbole. They're not the worst franchise ever and they will get marginally better. It is inevitable.

Hyperbole? This word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

51 years, dude. Fifty. One. Years.

Sure, it's bound to happen, but this is not just a case of the Lions just happening to "suck now." They have had five decades of suck. This isn't Bengals' fans wringing their hands and wallowing in woe after a decade of hard times following a couple of Super Bowl appearances.

No, this is a team that has never been to a Super Bowl, has won one playoff game in 51 years, is mired in the worst 7-9 year (I forget exactly) stretch in the history of the league, and is on the verge of becoming the first 0-16 team. Ever.

Hyperbole? I think not, kind sir.

The closest thing they have had to "greatness" over the last 51 years was the Barry Sanders Era. What did that Golden Age amount to? One playoff win and the organization forcing one of the great players of all time, Barry Sanders, into retirement because of their ineptitude. Thus, even the Lions' Golden Era is tainted with a foul odor.

I have said this before, many times here in fact, the only NFL franchise who has any claim at being legitimately worse than the Lions are the Cardinals. They, like the Lions, have been around forever, have a crappy all time record, and have had similar futility in the playoffs. What puts them over the top is the fact that they've moved around. If the Lions lose to Green Bay on Sunday, their will have usurped the Cardinals and will have claimed the title as "Worst Franchise Ever".

If a Franchise has actually made it to the Super Bowl (not even win, mind you, but actually played in one) that franchise is imeddiately disqualified from the rankings until every "long term" franchise has at least been in the big game.

Expansion teams, like Houston, have many, many more years of horribleness ahead of them before they will be considered for the Rankings.

This is not a matter of opinion. This is not a matter for debate. This is fact.

Once the Lions "come back and will maybe even get to a playoff game again eventually", then we can revisit this and the rankings will change. The rankings are not set in stone, by their very nature they are a fluid thing, sort of the weekly Power Rankings that people are so fond of.

If you think there is a worse NFL franchise than the Lions (assuming they go 0-16 this year), please, make your case.

That is all.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Do I see Detroit's winning percentage rising? Of course I do.

Only delusional Lions fans would agree with you.

[Passacaglia]

That one playoff win was fun to watch, though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

That one playoff win was fun to watch, though.

Totally. Really, really fun. Easily the best time I have ever had watching a Lions game.

[Axxon]

Well, Lion fans are the most delusional fans apparently. They will cherry pick and explain away anything to get the coveted crown. The reason they beat the Cardinals is because, yes, the Cardinals have been around longer, have a worst w/l percentage and haven't won anything either but AHA!!! they have been so crappy that two communities wouldn't support them so they had to move. Somehow, being that sucky is a plus not a negative see so the Lions are the worst.

Once one tries to float that shitburger there's no point trying to hold a rational discussion on the issue. I mean, every objective measure supports the Cardinals worseness historically except for this so of course this has to be the key ingredient that magically raise the worse franchise over the better one giving the Lions the title.

[Axxon]

From Wikipedia just for fun

The Lions have won four NFL Championships, the last in 1957, giving the club the second-longest NFL championship drought behind the Arizona Cardinals, who last won in 1947 (as the Chicago Cardinals).

Wow, four championships. I bet the Saints, Falcons, hell, the Bucs would love four championships and there are those pesky Cardinals again, thank goodness they had those moves to push them ahead of the Lions or it'd get ugly.

Cardinals:

In the six-plus decades since winning the championship in 1947, the team has qualified for the playoffs only five times and has won but a single playoff game.

Lions:

The team has qualified for the playoffs only nine times in the 50-plus years since winning the 1957 championship and has won only one playoff game in that span.

I'm guessing this is irrelevant as well.

[ISiddiqui]

Have the Saints, Falcons, and Bucs been in existence since 1957?

But I agree with your general point. The Cardinals are FAR, FAR, FAR worse. At least the Lions had Barry Sanders.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Well, Lion fans are the most delusional fans apparently. They will cherry pick and explain away anything to get the coveted crown. The reason they beat the Cardinals is because, yes, the Cardinals have been around longer, have a worst w/l percentage and haven't won anything either but AHA!!! they have been so crappy that two communities wouldn't support them so they had to move. Somehow, being that sucky is a plus not a negative see so the Lions are the worst.

Once one tries to float that shitburger there's no point trying to hold a rational discussion on the issue. I mean, every objective measure supports the Cardinals worseness historically except for this so of course this has to be the key ingredient that magically raise the worse franchise over the better one giving the Lions the title.

Wait, I thought you were arguing that the Bucs were worse than the Lions...

[st.cronin]

This thread is hilarious.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Have the Saints, Falcons, and Bucs been in existence since 1957?

But I agree with your general point. The Cardinals are FAR, FAR, FAR worse. At least the Lions had Barry Sanders.

I got brought in here because of the following assertion.

It is the opportunity to cement their place in NFL history, accomplishing something no other team has done. And I seriously fear they will screw it up and somehow win, becoming just another 1-15 team.

Which to me meant that somehow the 0-16 was the accomplishment he was referring to ( since I never really assumed that 1 particular loss since 1957 would push the team over the worst franchise "evah" title ) but he corrected me and said that that one loss would clearly be the one that made them the worst OF ALL TIME at which point I backed off the Bucs ( since they had the worst season of all time ) and have been proving ( to myself too I'll admit ) that the Cardinals are indeed are the worst franchise "evah."

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Wait, I thought you were arguing that the Bucs were worse than the Lions...

See my last post.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This thread is hilarious.

Leave me alone. I was born and raised in Tampa, went to college in New Orleans and live in Phoenix. I have three times the suckiness on my side so even if he won his argument, I've suffered way more.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Leave me alone. I was born and raised in Tampa, went to college in New Orleans and live in Phoenix. I have three times the suckiness on my side so even if he won his argument, I've suffered way more.

Now if you could just move to Dallas...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Axxon

From Wikipedia just for fun



Wow, four championships. I bet the Saints, Falcons, hell, the Bucs would love four championships and there are those pesky Cardinals again, thank goodness they had those moves to push them ahead of the Lions or it'd get ugly.

Cardinals:



Lions:


I'm guessing this is irrelevant as well.

As I noted....

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I have said this before, many times here in fact, the only NFL franchise who has any claim at being legitimately worse than the Lions are the Cardinals. They, like the Lions, have been around forever, have a crappy all time record, and have had similar futility in the playoffs. What puts them over the top is the fact that they've moved around. If the Lions lose to Green Bay on Sunday, their will have usurped the Cardinals and will have claimed the title as "Worst Franchise Ever".

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well, this whole "worst franchise ever" discussion has just become moot.

Congrats, Lions!

[flere-imsaho]

I think we may have all collectively jinxed (reverse jinxed) the Cardinals into the Super Bowl with this thread.

[RendeR]

With the Cardinals rise to NFC power in this Super Bowl and based on the pleathura of statistics from all sides in this thread I hereby decree that CURRENTLY the Detroit Lions are the Worst Franchise in NFL history.

Congratulations Detroit. You truly know how to disappoint your fans and produce utter shyte on the Football Field.

Things to note in my decision:

having WON or APPEARED in a Super Bowl Disqualifies your team from consideration, no matter how pathetic your string of seasons may be, having won or played in the penultimate game means you cannot be that awful, even if its just for a season.

So in my OH so humble opinion the only teams remaining in the hunt for "Worst Team Ever" are the following:

Detroit Lions
Cleveland Browns
New Orleans Saints
Houston Texans/Oilers
Jacksonville Jaguars

[MrDNA]

Browns suck now, but were waaaay too good in their first few decades to even sniff "worst all time." Jaguars are too young and have played well, despite not making the Superbowl. The other three I could give some consideration to.

[Chubby]

Yeah I agree with MrDNA. Tho the Browns suck now, they have been good and you don't have to go back that far either (Kosar)

[MikeVic]

You can't discount the Bengals.

[miami_fan]

Can't connect the Texans and the Oilers either. New Orleans is still too young of a franchise. Lions FTW.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

You can't discount the Bengals.

No, you can't. They deserve mention, despite their two Super Bowl appearances.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I think we may have all collectively jinxed (reverse jinxed) the Cardinals into the Super Bowl with this thread.

And I thank you!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Can't connect the Texans and the Oilers either. New Orleans is still too young of a franchise. Lions FTW.

I was only relating the texans and oilers in that they were both in Houston. Sorry for the confusion.

I was surprised to see cleveland with the 4th best all time winning percentage. Sad to see where that franchise has fallen.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by RendeR

With the Cardinals rise to NFC power in this Super Bowl and based on the pleathura of statistics from all sides in this thread I hereby decree that CURRENTLY the Detroit Lions are the Worst Franchise in NFL history.

Congratulations Detroit. You truly know how to disappoint your fans and produce utter shyte on the Football Field.

Things to note in my decision:

having WON or APPEARED in a Super Bowl Disqualifies your team from consideration, no matter how pathetic your string of seasons may be, having won or played in the penultimate game means you cannot be that awful, even if its just for a season.

So in my OH so humble opinion the only teams remaining in the hunt for "Worst Team Ever" are the following:

Detroit Lions
Cleveland Browns
New Orleans Saints
Houston Texans/Oilers
Jacksonville Jaguars

Jacksonville has been around, what 13 years? And have at least 2-3 playoff wins in that stretch. Not great, but to include them with the Lions and Saints who have been around much longer, and have fewer playoff wins?

[Tigercat]

The Lions have: (80 years)
4 Championships (1 every 20 years)
13 hall of famers (1 every 6 years)
17 playoff games,
7 playoff wins (1 every 11 years)
Barry Sanders

The Saints have: (40 years)
0 Championships in 40 years
1 hall of fame member
7 playoff games,
2 playoff wins (1 every 20 years)
No Barry Sanders

[MikeVic]

Hmm maybe the Saints are the worst franchise.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Hmm maybe the Saints are the worst franchise.

Yes, but our best days were 15 years ago, and the Saints best days are right now.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yes, but our best days were 15 years ago, and the Saints best days are right now.

The only reason that matters at all is if the discussion is not about "worst team ever"

Ever includes the entire history. As was mentioned above, there is no way in the world the Browns can be considered because they were so dominant in the 50s and still good in the 60s with Jim Brown.

Detroit doesn't get to discount those 4 titles just because they were a long time ago

[Danny]

Overall I would say Saints, but since the merger and beginning of the super bowl, the Lions.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Why? Why is 0-16 such a big deal? Again, they won't be the first winless team in a season and like I said, until they hit 0-26, they're just a sucky team, not a historically sucky one. Trust me youngsters, there's no way this team is as bad as the '76 Buccaneers. There hasn't been nor will there likely ever be a team so bad. They changed the entire rules of expansion because they were so bad.

ESPN knows it.
hxxp://assets.espn.go.com/page2/s/list/football/teams/worst.html

Pat Toomey knows it.
hxxp://espn.go.com/page2/s/toomay/011227.html

Rod Marinelli knows it.

It's just like the Patriots were all jazzed because they won 16 and were acting like they're the greatest team to go undefeated in a season because they played in 2 more games than the Dolphins. It's not really accurate.

If you want to say they're the worst ever since the league went to 16 game seasons then that's ok, but if you cherry pick stats you can make practically any argument.

Again, I am kinda biased but I've seen both teams play and there's no way this Lions team loses to that Bucs team. They're nowhere near as bad. At least they have SOME NFL worthy talent.

Read the Pat Toomey piece. It includes the following John McKay quote, way funnier than his oft-remembered being in favor of his team's execution:

Originally Posted by John McKay

McKay, in his press conference, called Denver offensive coordinator Max Corley "a prick." "He was a prick when I knew him at Oregon, he's a prick now and he'll always be a prick," McKay told the assembled reporters. When, the following week, Time magazine reported that it was Ralston whom McKay had called a prick, our coach laughed. "I would have called him a prick," he told a Tampa columnist. "But a prick has a head."

Why is there all this quote love for the vastly overrated Yogi Berra, and little for the way funnier John McKay?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Why is there all this quote love for the vastly overrated Yogi Berra, and little for the way funnier John McKay?

Yankees > Bucs.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, this whole "worst franchise ever" discussion has just become moot.

Congrats, Lions!

I actually considered dredging up this thread and posting this exact sentiment but I thought it'd be cruel.

Good thing though is that the Bucs appear set to give the Lions a run for their money. A coach and GM with zippo experience with this team inn this division? I'm sensing a run of 5-11 being a successful year for the Pewter and Red. I knew the Glazers had ok'ed the throwback uniforms but I never dreamed they'd resurrect the crappy ownership decisions too. It's Hugh Culverhouse II.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Read the Pat Toomey piece. It includes the following John McKay quote, way funnier than his oft-remembered being in favor of his team's execution:



Why is there all this quote love for the vastly overrated Yogi Berra, and little for the way funnier John McKay?

I HEART John McKay and I'll always miss his wit.

I can't exactly pick only one favorite quote but this one is close if not it.

After the Bucs broke their 26-game losing streak - "Three or four plane crashes and we're in the playoffs."

.

or maybe

On losing a key game - "I told our players that there were 700 million Chinese people in the world who didn't even know the game was played. The next week, I got five letters from China asking "What happened?"

or a truthful one

On the prospect of a late-season trip to Green Bay - "Going there is like winning the 98th prize in a beauty contest with only 97 prizes."

Honorable mention.

At a post-game press conference in 1976 "You guys don't know the difference between a football and a bunch of bananas."

The following week after a media member has dropped off a case of bananas at his door -

"You guys don't know the difference between a football and a Mercedez-Benz."