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Why The NFL 2K Series Was Truly Great And Why You Should Miss It

Just as longtime football fans struggle to stop Lawrence Taylor from rushing through their minds every time Joe Theismann pops up on television (these days, to promote cures for a broken prostate), it has become equally hard for seasoned sports gamers to hold back thoughts of NFL 2K any time its old nemesis, Madden NFL, releases another hype trailer or holds another cover vote.

Forever, these football icons will be linked, primarily because of a privately cheered, publicly booed 2004 contract, in which the NFL (playing the role of Harry Carson) and Electronic Arts (standing in as the original L.T.) struck a long-term, exclusive partnership that effectively ended Visual Concepts' career in creating pro football videogames.

Even in an imaginary, less cutthroat world where league licenses couldn't become locked up in anti-consumer, exclusivity deals, these three companies' business ties would persist in the same way that TitanFall cannot evade Call of Duty comparisons, and Mighty No. 9 will never escape Mega Man's blue shadow.

Reason being, several years before the Madden series' most fearsome rival, NFL 2K, was successfully pitched to SEGA of America at a private, 3D technology demonstration, sports gamers were sitting around their Super Nintendos, slamming muddy 2D sprites into each other, while happily playing Madden NFL 94, developed by Visual Concepts.




Shockingly, the same Madden franchise that later became a bitter archrival to Visual Concepts' NFL 2K games also gave the young Californian software maker its first job programming football titles, back in 1993. In fact, if you had a Super Nintendo during it's heyday, most of the gray EA Sports cartridges for that system were coded by Visual Concepts. Bill Walsh College Football, MLBPA Baseball, Madden NFL 95 and NHL 95 were just some of the company's early entries in the sports genre.

Then came Madden NFL 96 for Sony's PlayStation – or more accurately, it didn't come, after the project was sacked for failing to meet Electronic Arts' quality assurance standards. That cancellation not only cost Electronic Arts an early foothold in the combative PlayStation sports market, where Madden would fight chiseled competitors like Sony's NFL GameDay and Midway's NFL Blitz, but it also cost Visual Concepts its football partnership with Electronic Arts, who awarded Madden NFL 97's development to an upstart, independent Florida-based studio named Tiburon Entertainment.
 


NHL 97 for the Sony PlayStation and SEGA Saturn was the final Visual Concepts game to be released by Electronic Arts. Without a publisher, Visual Concepts continued working on its own 3D technology in-house, eventually producing their next sports title, NBA Action 98 for the SEGA Saturn. This was the team's first release under the “SEGA Sports” brand, where Visual Concepts would remain until its 2005 sale to Take-Two Interactive.

NBA Action 98 failed to bring basketball buyers to SEGA's struggling Saturn console, but that result was just as expected in 1997 as a Jordan-led, Chicago Bulls championship, given the established dominance of Sony's sports powerhouse, the PlayStation, and its star hoops titles, NBA ShootOut and NBA Live. From Visual Concepts' perspective, NBA Action 98 at least succeeded in earning SEGA of America's trust. And when Electronic Arts began bargaining with SEGA over the exclusive rights to publish sports games on its upcoming Dreamcast console, president Bernie Stolar decided to let Electronic Arts walk away from the table, and instead, bet on Visual Concepts. Given that Madden NFL, NBA Live and EA NHL likely wouldn't have moved more units of SEGA's poorly marketed system than NFL 2K, NBA 2K and NHL 2K ultimately did, you could say that Stolar's bet paid off since the sports games SEGA did have were accounting for 46 percent of the company's yearly revenue by 2001. Unfortunately, the slim profit margins ($4 per unit sold) coming from a handful of licensed sports titles could not keep the ill-fated Dreamcast from folding, spurring SEGA's eventual exit from the sports genre.





NFL 2K

In all likelihood, there will never be another sports game as graphically and sonically stunning as the original NFL 2K. To many gamers' surprise, it wasn't Sonic The Hedgehog's first hard-to-control, horribly voice-acted 3D adventure, but instead, an American football game from a small, unheralded developer, that became the primary reason to pay $199.99 on 9/9/1999 for SEGA's Dreamcast.

At a time when Sony's NFL Gameday and Electronic Arts' Madden NFL series were just beginning to experiment with polygonal player models, while still featuring mostly empty sidelines surrounded by a single flat crowd texture, Visual Concepts' NFL 2K lined its fields with photographers, camera operators, reporters, coaches, and reserve players, along with individually modeled -- though heavily cloned -- fans filling the lower levels of its 3D stadiums. These details came at no cost to system performance, since the Dreamcast was capable of displaying everything at a sharp 480p, while still running at a smooth 60 frames per second, even during thick snow storms and pouring rain showers.

The game's hulking player models moved with a smoothness and believability never before seen in sports videogames, thanks to Visual Concepts' impressive use of over 1,500 motion-captured animations, mostly provided by real NFL players, like running back Ahman Green, defensive lineman Junior Bryant, offensive lineman Derrick Deese, defensive back Marquez Pope, et al. NFL 2K looked even better during its automated “Action Replays,” which zoomed in on finer details like mud-stained uniforms and players' misty breaths during cold-weather games.




NFL 2K sounded as incredible as it looked, thanks to the talented voice acting of Terry McGovern and Jay Styne, better known to gamers as the fictional commentary duo, Dan Stevens and Peter O'Keefe. Other impressive audio features included a public address announcer, fan chants, piped-in stadium music, audible athlete chatter and painful player grunts during high-impact collisions.

Visual Concepts even took advantage of the LCD screen inside the Dreamcast's multipurpose memory card, as gamers could press the tiny buttons on their Visual Memory Unit (VMU) to call plays during local multiplayer matches, without giving their opponent any hint of what play might be coming.

NFL 2K's main weakness was its lack of a multi-season “franchise” mode, a feature that had existed in PC sports games since 1992's Front Page Sports: Football, and had appeared for the first time on home consoles in EA Tiburon's NCAA Football 98. Franchise mode's absence was easily forgivable, though, since NFL 2K was showcasing so many graphical and audio advances, while facing the pressures of being a launch-day title for a new console that was utilizing an unusual, non-industry-standard chipset.

Commonplace customization tools like create-a-team, create-a-player and create-a-play were at least present, giving NFL 2K plenty of replayability. Play creation, sadly, is a feature that has gone missing from modern football games (Avatar Football is the odd exception), failing to appear in any Madden title since the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 editions of Madden NFL 09; even in that most recent instance, gamers had to also own NFL Head Coach 09 just to employ the feature in Madden NFL 09.





NFL 2K1

While sports games on the Super Nintendo, SEGA Genesis and SEGA Saturn had been able to go online using expensive, hard-to-find peripherals like XBAND and NetLink, NFL 2K1 marked the first time that console gamers could experience online play for free, without needing to buy extra accessories, and without any fear of costly long-distance charges or pricey service plans. Those latter circumstances, however, were not SEGA's doing, but instead, were the result of a timely boom in free dial-up ISPs like NetZero, Juno and BlueLight.

The SEGA Dreamcast's 56K modem (twice as fast as the Saturn's 28K NetLink) ran games surprisingly well, though obviously, not up to the broadband standards that a small percentage of sports gamers were enjoying on their computers (in the year 2000, just 3 percent of Americans had broadband Internet at home). Dreamcast owners at least had access to a SEGA-branded keyboard, which facilitated friendly communication and G-rated trash talk (profanities, to many teenagers' disappointment, automatically became asterisks). Today, many sports series allow only one person per system to join an online match; NFL 2K1, by contrast, let four players on one Dreamcast compete online against four players from another Dreamcast, creating exciting eight-player matches.
 


For gamers who preferred to face the computer, NFL 2K1 now included a multi-year franchise mode on-par with what football fans had been enjoying on older platforms. NFL 2K1's career mode supported fantasy drafts, as well as created players, though getting the latter to work required an arcane menu trick.

NFL 2K1's online functionality also meant that downloadable roster updates, which PC sports buffs had grown accustomed to receiving, could finally keep athletes' ratings and injuries accurate throughout the season.

To date, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 is the only sports game to receive a higher Metacritic score (98) than NFL 2K1 (97).
 



NFL 2K2

Following SEGA's 2001 announcement that the company was preparing to discontinue its Dreamcast, football enthusiasts wondered whether or not the NFL 2K series would continue beyond its regular September release date, or simply retire alongside the Dreamcast. Thankfully, SEGA allowed Visual Concepts to transfer the series to the PlayStation 2 and Xbox, arriving in November and January, respectively, in the form of two rushed, unoptimized ports, which were both missing the Dreamcast's innovative online multiplayer capability.

Slightly updated graphics, marginally improved AI, and a few new player animations were the only noticeable additions to NFL 2K2, as Visual Concepts were scrambling to install their code base onto two new consoles, each running on entirely different architecture.
 



NFL 2K3


Turning on NFL 2K3, the first thing gamers saw was SportsCenter anchor, Dan Patrick, greeting them from his studio set, announcing a new partnership between SEGA Sports and ESPN.

Konami had previously owned ESPN's videogame rights from 2000 to 2002, but poor sales of sub-par titles like NBA 2Night and NFL PrimeTime caused the company to cease production on all their sports games, except for Pro Evolution Soccer, Pro Yakyuu Spirits and Power Pros, which still release annually to this day.

Aside from NFL 2K3's opening cinematic, Visual Concepts' initial collaboration failed to take full advantage of ESPN's most popular personalities, as a relatively unknown correspondent, Clark Dishman, provided blunt, bland voice-overs during his pre-game, half-time and post-game studio reports.

Dishman's weekly recap shows, though delivered dryly, were one of many noteworthy additions to NFL 2K3's franchise mode, which had undergone a complete cosmetic makeover. The menus, instead of being displayed against a traditional blank backdrop, were now surrounded by fake computer monitors and paper notebooks inside a virtual team facility. The head coach's office for the expansion Houston Texans, for example, had draft-day pictures of number-one overall pick David Carr hanging on the wall that faced your desk, where you'd order the team depth chart and manage player contracts. You could even move the Texans, or any other NFL team, for that matter, out of their default division and into the other conference, as franchise mode now supported team swapping. Visual Concepts also added a basic scouting system and a pre-draft combine for incoming rookies, plus they allowed college football die-hards to import their NCAA Football 2K3 draft classes, a series that was being farmed out to Avalanche Software, and would be asked to resign the following year, after suffering two straight seasons of financial losses.
 


NFL 2K3's most impressive upgrade was its graphics. By 2002's standards, the game's detailed player models looked extremely lifelike, from their shiny helmets, to the pad outlines pressing against their wrinkled mesh jerseys, all the way down to their chalky, studded cleats. Personalized faces and individualized accessories helped differentiate the cast of athletes, especially now that their faces were animated and could blend in seamlessly with the rest of the players' bodies, instead of looking painted-on like in past NFL 2K titles. If gamers didn't approve of a particular player's appearance, or didn't agree with an athlete's attribute ratings, Visual Concepts allowed every member of the current-day roster to be edited, for the first time in series history. Classic teams like the 1985 Chicago Bears and the 1989 San Francisco 49ers were also available, along with their throwback uniforms, but licensing restrictions prevented these retired players' real likenesses from being used, or from being manually edited into the game. Individual difficulty sliders for nine different AI actions (blocking, passing, running, etc.) did let users customize the CPU's potency in greater detail than before, as players were no longer stuck with a few all-encompassing difficulty settings.

In a year where GameDay and Madden were both testing out online play for the first time, Visual Concepts made sure to reinstall its network code for the PlayStation 2 and Xbox releases of NFL 2K3 (the GameCube version, which was NFL 2K's only appearance on Nintendo's "purple lunchbox," contained no online play). The Xbox edition even supported online voice chat thanks to Microsoft's progressive Xbox Live service. Years before online leaderboards became commonplace in videogames, NFL 2K3 tried a unique SEGA Sports Challenge stat system, which would read your user profile, track your in-game statistics, then spit out a code that could be entered on SEGA's website, where players could compare their profiles' single-game records and career averages.




Whereas NFL 2K, NFL 2K1 and NFL 2K2 had all been designed without any type of player momentum or footplanting, athletes in NFL 2K3 could no longer sprint off in any direction while still maintaining their top speed, as the game would now slow players down during sharp turns. ESPN NFL Football and NFL 2K5 would continue to tweak the franchise's player movement, making additional progress towards Visual Concepts' new goal of creating realistic footwork. Further realism was achieved by allowing gamers to select their defensive line stunts separately from their secondary's blitzes and coverages, a feature that still does not exist in any EA Tiburon football game. The ability to reassign offensive and defensive audibles by simply holding down the right trigger while inside the play-calling screen was another of NFL 2K3's excellent strategic additions.

On the flip-side, NFL 2K3 was just now implementing pre-play offensive hot routes (a feature that had debuted in Madden NFL 2000), allowing quarterbacks to change any receiver's assignment by simply pointing the right joystick in one of eight directions, and then pressing a receiver's icon to confirm the change. Requiring only two button presses, Visual Concepts' system was at least quicker and simpler than the three-button-press method that EA Tiburon continues to employ to this day. Additionally, while NFL 2K3 -- and all subsequent 2K football games -- gave gamers the option of setting a “one hot route per play” limit, no such option has ever existed Madden NFL or NCAA Football, allowing players in those games to unrealistically redraw entire plays at the line of scrimmage in a handful of seconds.
 



ESPN NFL Football

With its reputation for focusing on state-of-the-art graphics and fun, strategic gameplay, it felt slightly out of character when Visual Concepts began talking up fringe features like The Crib and a playable first-person camera -- additions seemingly designed to attract casual football supporters to SEGA's second-place NFL series. Other strange marketing decisions, like emphasizing the new ESPN branding by completely dropping the “2K” out of the title, and shipping with a goofy, blown-up box art that failed to show a single piece of sports equipment on the cover, likely did ESPN NFL Football no favors at retail, where it would become the lowest-selling NFL 2K of all-time, and the only entry besides NFL 2K2 to move less than a million units.

Contrary to common belief, ESPN NFL Football was not the first videogame to feature an in-helmet perspective; that honor belongs to Digital Pictures' Quarterback Attack With Mike Ditka, released on the SEGA Saturn in 1995 and the 3DO in 1996. Visual Concepts' fourth NFL 2K game, however, was the first time that players could control any position on the field, not just the quarterback, from a first-person view. It is fascinating to think how much better first-person football might play today, now that a widescreen 16:9 aspect ratio is the industry norm, and virtual reality headsets like Sony's Project Morpheus and Facebook's Oculus Rift are beginning to unveil playable prototypes.

ESPN NFL Football's 32-team online leagues were equally innovative, as at the time, PC was the only gaming platform that had offered anything comparable (see 1993's Front Page Sports: Football Pro). Each league even came with its own website, where detailed game logs and season-long player stats were stored. Only PlayStation 2 players had access to these features, as Xbox owners would have to wait until ESPN NFL 2K5 to join the fun. Electronic Arts would not add online leagues to their console football titles until NCAA Football 09 and Madden NFL 10, respectively, and even by NCAA Football 14, Online Dynasties still remained limited to a maximum of 12 participants.
 


ESPN NFL Football was also the franchise debut of double-team blocking, which could happen at any time, in any blocking situation. EA Tiburon, by comparison, did not fully implement double-team blocking into their running game until the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions of NCAA Football 10 (NCAA Football 08 had double-team blocks, but only on stretch and zone runs); additionally, double-team pass blocking did not exist in any Tiburon title until the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One editions of Madden NFL 25.

New secondary shifts were placed on the right joystick, so that gamers could tell their defensive coverage to press, bait, or shade receivers to the inside/outside. On-the-fly substitutions allowed you to spell a tired running back or sit an exhausted defensive end directly from the play-calling screen, without having to stop the game and sift through multiple pause menus.

Franchise mode's biggest change again involved its weekly highlight show, which had ditched the dull monotone of Clark Dishman for the enthusiastic antics of Chris Berman. Visual Concepts also added the ability to export your franchise team for use in outside game modes, something that still isn't possible in Madden NFL's Connected Careers.

The less said about The Crib, where gamers wandered through a 3D house filled with trophies, posters, and interactive bar games, the better. Though it certainly holds some historical significance as the starting point of Visual Concepts' fetish for drip-feeding its customers meaningless virtual currency in exchange for silly unlockables. At least Jackass alumnus, Steve-O, and former WCW World Heavyweight Champion, David Arquette, hadn't been invited to join the game, yet.





ESPN NFL 2K5

After ESPN NFL Football failed to grab Joe Gamer's attention with its flashy list of marketable features, ESPN NFL 2K5 drew the franchise's largest audience to date (selling three times as much as the next closest 2K football game), by letting the product's $20 price point, positive word-of-mouth and continued critical praise sell itself, while the developers quietly focused on adding small, supplemental features and making minor improvements to existing areas of the game.

Chris Berman, for example, now appeared as an animated 3D model –- complete with accurately rendered, atrocious-looking comb-over -- instead of only being heard as an invisible, disembodied voice. On the Xbox, Berman's in-game summaries now showed video replays, instead of being limited to still screen shots. The self-appointed Swami also had a post-game report this year, whereas before, he was only given pre-game and half-time spots.

In ESPN NFL 2K5's weekly highlights show (now named “SportsCenter,” not “NFL PrimeTime”), Chris Berman was joined by Trey Wingo, who would detail key injuries and transactions. During the off-season editions of SportsCenter, Mel Kiper Jr. would even show up to analyze incoming draft prospects. These three contrasting personalities helped create the most realistic newscasts in sports gaming history.
 


As a marketing tie-in with ESPN's 25th anniversary, Visual Concepts recreated 25 classic NFL moments, from the Ice Bowl's game-winning, over-the-pile touchdown plunge, to Donovan McNabb's improbable 4th and 26 conversion, which helped put the Philadelphia Eagles into their third consecutive NFC Championship game.

On the field, a smartly designed defensive hot route system helped gamers quickly alter individual defenders' assignments, without the need to slowly scroll their player cursor across the screen, as is still required in EA Tiburon's football titles. Stadium authenticity could even be improved by importing music clips from your hard drive and cuing them to play during key moments, like after a touchdown or a quarterback sack.

Virtual Identity Profiles (V.I.P.s) now mirrored the playcalling and gameplay tendencies for every NFL coach in the game, and for each of your real-world friends, making it so that no two opponents played the same style, while under the computer's control. Brian Billick would look to protect his unproven quarterback, Kyle Boller, by repeatedly handing the ball off to workhorse running back, Jamal Lewis. Mike Martz, even without Kurt Warner, would still try to air the ball out to Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce.
 



Game Over?

So the NFL 2K series ended, like the careers of many NFL stars from the past, present and future, tragically incapacitated at the height of its fame and glory.

There was a comeback attempt, as there often is. And while it wasn't an Adrian Peterson-esque return to dominance, it was at least on-par with Joe Montana's Kansas City Chiefs years, which despite one Pro Bowl and two playoff appearances, most people prefer to forget.

For the final chapter of Visual Concepts' football legacy, Operation Sports takes a long look at the controversial All-Pro Football 2K8.

 


Member Comments
# 41 Fist Of Kings @ 07/20/14 05:52 AM
I agree with your post CM, but for me it's hard to be critical of a game that came out in 2004 instead of the yearly editions we get of madden each year. I feel a lot of those flaws would have been addressed by now if they were still able to make nfl games. The thought of a football game having player tendencies like in the 2k basketball games would make most of us drool, and they were heading in that direction in apf with player traits. I really liked that idea.


The only reasons I play 2K5 now is because I prefer it's gameplay and I'm a big presentation guy, areas I feel are lacking in Madden. In 2K5, I can really feel a difference in power vs speed rbs, and I like it's defensive line play better. But 2K5 old as dirt though and has some major flaws that are game game enders for some people, so if Madden 15 improves it's a.i. and/or commentary on current gen(don't have the money to upgrade right now), then I'll pick it up in an instant.


I'd like it a lot better if 2K5 was just a retro game for me to play occasionally instead of being my main football fix because that's what it should be.
 
# 42 Sportselite @ 07/20/14 07:52 AM
Loved the NFL 2K series. Enjoyed it more, than the Madden series. I still own every NFL 2K game on the original Xbox. NFL 2K5 was my favorite game of the series and maybe my favorite football game, ever.
 
# 43 Perfect Zero @ 07/20/14 08:50 AM
It's hard to believe that it's been ten years since the game came out. That absolutely blows my mind because it feels like just yesterday that my Mom drove me to the store right after camp to go get the game, and only for $20. I spent so much time on that game, and it did so many things right that are still not in any game available today.

Some of the unsung features that I loved and that should be included in sports games today:

VIP System- God how that made the game shine! It was neat going head to head against every coach in the game and their different systems. You could also go online and download other people's gameplans and I could also practice against my family without them being there.

The Crib- It may seem kind of corny, but that was fun to have a pad and decorate it however you wished with memorabilia and games you could actually play. I've always thought that could replace the current menu in games, but I guess I'm in the minority on that one.

Slot Machine/Schoolyard Pick- I remember playing against my friends with the slot machine where you didn't know what players you would get until you pressed the button. There was also a two team draft that you could do before a game. I think that would be pretty neat if it came back in a game today.

That game did have some flaws but to me it was as close to a perfect game as one could get to.
 
# 44 juduking @ 07/20/14 09:03 AM
Its crazy to see this on the front page just a day after the Madden twitch stream got such a positive response in the Madden thread. I enjoy sim gaming and do not care where it comes from, but maybe just maybe its time to move on as Rex Dickson clearly at least knows what us sim guys want and is trying to get it done in Madden. If we keep dwelling on the past and comparing 2 completely different games to each other then we are doing Rex and his team a great disservice as he needs our support if we are ever to get to true sim gaming in Madden and not arcade cheese.
 
# 45 K_GUN @ 07/20/14 09:10 AM
haha.....this is sad but i'll admit it......i actually dreamed about 2k last night.....i made this amazing pass play to bernie Parmelee (dolphins?).....and in the dream said what i had said for several years when playing the game........"you would never see that in Madden"



my love affair began xmas 2000-2001....cant recall.....my younger bro had a Dreamcast...we fired up 2K.....I immediately fell in love (i had been playing madden for several years PC/PS2 before this encounter).....the game was so......alive.



2k3-4-5 was everything Madden wasn't.....realistic...fun...energetic commentary/play by play....even the over-the-top tackle sound was great.



I was crushed when the news dropped about the license....i kept playing 2k5 for 2-3 years afterwards then even bought APF but......it wasn't the same.......the magic was lost......to this day I still fire up APF once in a while.......



a fun time during my gaming career indeed

But....ive moved on.....
 
# 46 bxphenom7 @ 07/20/14 10:34 AM
I don't blame people for moving on, but I don't think I ever will. I still have hope that 2k and EA will sort their stuff out, and 2k can feel confident in releasing a football game again because they'll have the NFL license....and EA can return to making MVP Baseball. It's all about competition. This is why I would like to see NBA Live return and have some success, PES have some success, MVP Baseball return so The Show has competition, and another NHL game release. Sure, some developers are driven out of competition just for making an inferior product, like Live and MLB 2k, but no competition really can doom a series to become stale.

I won't move on. Won't even think of moving on because personally I believe that doesn't help any chances of 2k coming back, even to make a generic football game. Have to show the demand.
 
# 47 bigbob @ 07/20/14 10:51 AM
I don't blame people for moving on but I can't stand whenever someone say's that other people need to move on. Why? Why would someone move on from a game that they feel is better than anything we have today?

Call of Duty: Black Ops is my favorite COD. Should I move on because Ghosts is out? No because I think Ghosts is the worst of the three non-Modern Warfares.

So, I should be less happy just because you think I should move on?

I hate people.

/rant

This is directed at anyone specifically in this thread (I haven't read every post) but it is directed at those on this forum who have said "Time to move on" about anything.
 
# 48 stiffarmleft @ 07/20/14 11:11 AM
We're in a 2k sub forum reminising about a game series that we all enjoyed, it started way before 2k5 for me. Reminsing about 2k is not doing madden a disservice nor is it disrespectful to Rex, this forum is not owned by EA. I think we all want madden to be worlds better than any football game ever created, we have no choice. I reminise about lots of things, you tend to do that when you reach my age, no harm no foul.
 
# 49 Blzer @ 07/20/14 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Banner
I'm sorry but you guys overrate 2k5 so much. I'll never understand why so many believe that's the greatest football game ever.
The article this thread is about might have hinted at one or two things.
 
# 50 K_GUN @ 07/20/14 11:53 AM
1 more thing.....

...does anyone feel miffed at 2K for NOT going the route of PES....and putting out a fully customizable game with franchise mode?.....I do...

I mean...yes EA/NFL get flamed for exclusivity but 2K chose to walk away....I put that on them..as being quitters....

.....which is why i have "moved on".....im not really into supporting ghosts or "what might have been's"....

just my .02$
 
# 51 horrormaster @ 07/20/14 11:59 AM
To me 2K football wasn't anything great. The player models were all the same, the running animations sucked something fierce, the players on defense moved way faster than they should, the power-up meter thing was abused like no other, money plays and nano blitzes ruined online play, etc.

i still don't know why everybody puts so much praise into the series. I think it has more to do with people hating EA (not even Madden really) and being tired with those games supposedly being the same as the others, which can be said about the 2K series as well.
 
# 52 K_GUN @ 07/20/14 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by horrormaster
To me 2K football wasn't anything great. The player models were all the same, the running animations sucked something fierce, the players on defense moved way faster than they should, the power-up meter thing was abused like no other, money plays and nano blitzes ruined online play, etc.



i still don't know why everybody puts so much praise into the series. I think it has more to do with people hating EA (not even Madden really) and being tired with those games supposedly being the same as the others, which can be said about the 2K series as well.

The DB ai was atrocious....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
# 53 Fist Of Kings @ 07/20/14 01:35 PM
It always grinds my gears when someone accuses me(or others) of 'hating' a company so much, that I'd overrate an old game, a game that I've said has flaws. Well people that hate companies don't rent/buy most ea football games like I have, and they just haven't been good games imo, which is why I still play 2K5 despite it's flaws which I know can cause people to drop the game completely.

I wasted money on NCAA 14(This one really irked me with having no injuries besides wr, hb, te, PENALTIES RARELY CALLED AND NO PENALTY SLIDERS, no stamina slider, horrible commentary, robo qbs, broken defense, and the constant football magnet glitch where the game would hang after TDs and focus on the ball sliding across the field as if it were being pulled by magnets) and Madden 13, skipped Madden 25, but I'm hoping for a decent current gen Madden title this year, because I'm tired of playing an old game, but at the same time I'm not going to settle for imo what has been bad to mediocre games like I have over the years.


There may be some that overrate 2K5, but I think most of it has to do with people simply preferring it for the great game it was/is, and/or not being satisfied with the yearly updates we have gotten in ea football games. Labeling everyone that likes 2K5 as 'ea haters' is fanboy logic and taking the easy way out. I want a good football game period and I don't care who makes it.
 
# 54 MysteriousPanther @ 07/20/14 02:16 PM
Interesting article, Jayson Young. Reading your article on 2K was like watching a episode of G4TV's Icons! I remember playing NFL 2K games on SEGA Dreamcast most of the time during high school years. The commentary between Dan Stevens and Peter O'Keefe (I know they're fictional characters) were excellent. I understand why gamers love ESPN NFL 2K5 (variety of reasons). I just want to see competition between 2K vs EA Sports & variety of football video games someday in the future.
 
# 55 TTD71 @ 07/20/14 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Zero
VIP System- God how that made the game shine! It was neat going head to head against every coach in the game and their different systems. You could also go online and download other people's gameplans and I could also practice against my family without them being there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
- Virtual Identity Profile: the most underrated feature to ever see the light of day in a sports game. I remember out of curiosity setting up a game against the CPU controlling my V.I.P., and I'll be damned if it didn't do every last thing I liked to do, all the way from play calling to snap count to hot routes to ballcarrier move usage. It was scary. Very few times have I been outright wowed in a sports game; this was one of those times.
I am firmly in the camp of people who do NOT see NFL2K5 in the same glorified light....the way some people talk about that game I half expect gospels to be written about it and a new faith to spring up in the next few years! The game was good, but it was lacking in areas that get glossed over and the half-time show / highlights??? REALLLY??? Berman's crap performances and poor stitching of the commentary was old hat after a week let alone 10+ years!!!! Get a grip people...that halftime stuff was crap in the smelliest ways imaginable...

HOWEVER....the VIP was amazing and I was floored by it when playing my own VIP for practice...it was eerie because the VIP really did do EVERYTHING I did right down to faking the snap count and hot routes and play calls. I have always thought EA was losing a HUGE opportunity to improve the replay-ability of Madden by not including this in their online offerings...

Imagine a refined and 10-years on updated VIP that is downloadable for everyone online the way roster files are now. I might never play another actual "live" online game again...seriously. If I could download people's VIP and play against them at my leisure? Why take the chance of someone blaring their music through the headphones (while NOT chatting) or quitting the game on you after the first quarter?

Downloadable VIPs would make leagues - serious ones anyway - really intense. You could practice against your opponent during the week (like an actual NFL team game planning) and you could self-scout for tendencies and make adjustments to your own game plans. It would really open things up and make the glaring technical limitations that remain a lot easier for people to stomach.

2K5 was a good game with great elements. Nothing more and nothing less. The unadulterated praise it gets is much more a reflection of Madden's lack of overall progress than it is deserved praise of an old title...
 
# 56 Gman 18 @ 07/20/14 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_GUN
1 more thing.....

...does anyone feel miffed at 2K for NOT going the route of PES....and putting out a fully customizable game with franchise mode?.....I do...

I mean...yes EA/NFL get flamed for exclusivity but 2K chose to walk away....I put that on them..as being quitters....

.....which is why i have "moved on".....im not really into supporting ghosts or "what might have been's"....

just my .02$
I never really thought about it that way, but you do make a good point. If 2k was really that confident in their game, im sure they would have continued putting out fully- customizable football games, even without the liscense. Im sure they would have done well, due to the success of nfl 2k5, but maybe 2k thought it wasnt worth it because they didnt have the nfl liscense and although the sim fans would probably buy the generic, fully customizable game, most casual fans would probably step away from 2k and buy madden for the reason that it has the Nfl liscense.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk
 
# 57 malky @ 07/20/14 02:53 PM
The G.O.A.T
 
# 58 strawberryshortcake @ 07/20/14 02:59 PM

NFL 2k5



Real NFL

 
# 59 stiffarmleft @ 07/20/14 03:24 PM
The lost potential based on the trajectory this game was on and the fact it was ended so abruptly with arguably the best version of football ever is what gives 2k it's martyr status. Year after year the game was improved, not incremental improvements or additions but wholesale changes in game elements. Who knows if the game could have kept that momentum for 10 years but the football landscape would be alot different if 2k was allowed to continue making an NFL game. The 2k series was ahead of it's time and is still relevant as many aspects from the series are still pined for by football gamers.
 
# 60 bxphenom7 @ 07/20/14 04:02 PM

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