Home
Feature Article
OS Roundtable: Looking Back at Football Edition

#1: Which franchise had the better run in this previous generation, Madden or NCAA?

Robert Kollars: NCAA to me had the better run, but that doesn't mean it was smooth sailing. The NCAA team did a better job of incorporating an online dynasty/franchise, and by doing so added some incredible depth and longevity to the title.

Jayson Young: Of the two series, Madden released the best overall game (Madden NFL 10), but NCAA Football was more innovative and a more consistent performer on a year-to-year basis. Either way, trying to pick a winner out of these two under-performing franchises is like the Vikings trying to choose between starting Josh Freeman or Christian Ponder at quarterback.

Matthew Coe: NCAA Football had the better run and it isn't even close in my opinion. Madden has been seemingly in a perpetual "wait until next year" cycle this entire generation while NCAA Football actually built upon it's strong core game and made logical upgrades and changes.

Evan: Despite the recent news, I would say NCAA took this generation in terms of the gridiron battle. NCAA continued to provide a solid product with new features added every year to constantly try and improve. Even if the feature implementation was not successful, the people at NCAA seemed to use it as a learning experience. NCAA did all this without any sort of competition, unfortunately the same cannot be said for Madden, which used the lack of competition to settle for consistently safe product releases, which had no general sense of direction for the franchise.

Dustin Toms: I almost fell like NCAA had the better run. College football has a much more passionate following. There are few things that match the school pride of any Division I program. Personally, I enjoyed Madden more often than NCAA. Nothing could beat recruiting in the offseason, but winning the Super Bowl was much more gratifying.

#2: Where does All-Pro Football 2K8 fit in the discussion among the best football games this past generation?

RK: It has to be in the top three of any list. If 2K would have included a franchise mode and had access to the NFL license, it would have owned this generation of football gaming.

JY: All-Pro Football 2K8 belongs at the very top of the list. Its gameplay still offers the most realistic representation of football on the XBOX 360 or PlayStation 3. The customization issues it shipped with have since been solved by the modding community. As a gamer who prefers to compete against adaptive human players instead of predictable computer opponents, the absence of a multi-season offline mode has never bothered me.

MC: At the top of the list. It is the greatest simulation football game that gamers were able to play on this generation of consoles. The discussion can't even be legitimately held about the best football games without APF 2K8.

E: In terms of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8 deserves to be in the conversation as one of the best football titles on this generation of consoles. The game play was excellent in terms of variety, realism, and graphical shine. What did All-Pro Football in was the very concept of the game as it quickly went stale. There was no ability to do to anything beyond a single season, and even though the customization options were rigorous the confines of the player creation still made it too little to hold gamer's attention.

DT: I swear I'm not playing Devil's Advocate, but for as fun as APF 2K8 was, it wasn't the best football game released this generation. My vote is Madden 13; Connected Careers is special, even though it needs tweaking. These games really do get better as time goes on, it's just Madden's jump in improvement year-to-year was much smaller than other sports games.

#3: In a paragraph, diagnose Madden's biggest problem since debuting on the XBOX 360.

RK: While the Madden franchise has dealt with numerous issues, I think the two biggest were the lack of competition and misguided direction. EA Tiburon lacks focus, and by doing so their NFL franchise seemingly has had a different goal almost every year. What makes MLB The Show such a great series is that the team keeps its core strengths on a yearly basis, and works to correct the game's weaknesses. EA never seemed to embrace that concept during this generation, and as we mentioned before, the lack of competition surely did not help the cause. What EA needs to do is build a true football simulation, and let the fan-base adapt to the game. I understand the need to appeal to the masses, but NBA 2K and MLB the Show also need to accomplish this, and still find a way to capture the true essence of their respective sport.

JY: Realistic player movement has been a longstanding issue for all EA Sports games on the XBOX 360 and PlayStation 3. Both Madden and NCAA Football leave this generation as the two ugliest sports games in motion. Until EA Tiburon gets its animation systems up to par with other sports developers, Visual Concepts, SCEA San Diego Studio and Konami will continue making Madden look like a third-string sports game.

MC: Lack of direction. Starting with Madden 06 and Madden 07, it was all about pushing the visuals but leaving out the core game modes like franchise and owner mode. Then came, Madden NFL 08 and the less said about it the better honestly ... I have no idea how that game made it out of the door. Then with Madden NFL 09-12 we had a renewed focus on the NFL part of the game. More authentic sounds, sights, commentary, and other peripheral things that attempted to make it an NFL game, not just a Madden game. Madden 13 marked yet another sharp change in direction with the infinity engine and connected careers mode. Madden NFL 25 continued that and re-introduced owner mode. Who knows where the series goes from here. That's the problem.

E: If the it was not required in terms of an explanation, I could explain Madden's biggest problem in one word: complacency. Madden's problem is that it is content to sit on its throne and focus on rewarding shareholders as opposed to rewarding who they should be focusing on: the consumers. Despite increases in technology Madden has yet to incorporate WR and DB interaction present a console generation ago in NFL 2K5. Madden brings back more features then it does create new ones, and consistently disappoints with game killing bugs, exploits, and glitches - which takes away from any potential variety in terms of competitive play. Many of these are so blatant that it appears as though the game was never even tested which further continues to give the impression of a lack of commitment to the consumer.

DT: I have to agree with Matt on this one. He pegged it perfectly. Madden has never had a lack of direction. It was always the "three-year plan." The problem was that at the end of every third year, EA would claim they're rebuilding and rebranding the game to make a more immersive experience. Getting a brand new franchise every three years was exhausting and upsetting. It's almost as if consumer backlash spun them in circles. It might be ironic, but focus on making a realistic football sim while ignoring what the consumer wants. Who cares what we're asking if EA knows they're making a damn good game?

#4: What is the one aspect of football games we still haven't seen executed correctly?

RK: Secondary and wide receiver interaction. While APF2K8 did a better job than EA's attempts, it still had room for improvement. I will say that it may have had a lot to do with hardware limitations, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this area has been somewhat neglected for far too long.

JY: Other team sports titles like FIFA Soccer 14, NHL 14 or even the NFL Blitz and NBA Jam remakes have proved that a well-executed online team play mode can turn an otherwise mediocre video game into an incredibly fun cooperative experience. Madden has not improved or attempted to expand its three-on-three team up mode since the feature debuted in Madden NFL 11. Seven-on-seven online leagues are something that football gaming has never tried, and I believe it would take off just as clubs have in the FIFA and NHL series.

MC: There are many, but if I have to chose one I will say that it's the aspect of individual team identities. For example, when you play Madden NFL 25 against the Chiefs, you should expect, and have to gameplan for, a large dose of Jamaal Charles and Alex Smith trying to carve you up in the short passing game. When playing the Saints, it's all about Drew Brees and his weapons over the middle and out of the backfield. What I'm getting at, I guess, is a higher form of artificial intelligence combined with real life statistics and play-calling tendencies. Signature styles, if you will.

E: I will refer to the prior answer and again state the interaction before, during, and after the ball arrives between defensive backs and wide receivers. The interaction in Madden and NCAA ceases to exist once the initial bump at the line is completed. There is nothing in terms of pushing off, down-the-field hand checking, or face guarding to create a more fluent and realistic feel to the passing game. As a result of this lack of physicality and random events, it creates the environment we have now where off the line you know if a player is either going to be wide open or in blanket coverage the instant they get off the line.

DT: Presentation. All football presentation was sorely lacking this entire generation. I'm a huge advocate of keeping NFL 2K5 in the past, but when a game from the original Xbox still has the best presentation from any NFL game ever, something is wrong. This goes for commentary as well.

#5: Is football gaming in a better or worse place at the end of this generation?

RK: When only one company has a license, football gaming will never be in a better place. Football fans need choices, and sadly that option has dwindled down to just one with the removal of NCAA Football. Let's hope that the NFL license opens up again in 2014. Not because I want to see Madden go away, but because competition drives people to put forth a better effort and product.

JY: The genre is worse off, for the simple reason that gamers are now down to just one football developer (EA Tiburon) and one football franchise (Madden NFL). Midway Games went bankrupt in 2009. Natural Motion abandoned console gaming in 2011 and now makes mobile games exclusively. Take-Two Interactive has shown no interest in releasing another unlicensed football game after All-Pro Football 2K8 lost money. The only hope football fans have at this point is for the NFL exclusivity deal to expire without renewal.

MC: Football gaming is not better off as we end this generation. That's kind of mind boggling when you consider that we had nowhere to go but up from Madden NFL 06. The state of football gaming took a sharp turn for the worse when EA Sports was granted the exclusive NFL license just prior to the start of this console generation, and then dealt another severe blow when the NCAA Football series was killed off earlier this year. A one game, Madden-only football future doesn't look all that appealing to me.

E: It is certainly hard to say that it is worse off purely based off of the available technology. This generation has given us graphical enhancements, game play enhancements, and social enhancements such as online franchises. I however will say that despite the potential, we are worse off because the overall feel is no more immersive than it was on the PlayStation 2 or the original Xbox.

DT: It's worse, unfortunately. Is Madden NFL 25 a better game than Madden NFL 06 on the original Xbox? Yes. Is Madden NFL 25 as fun and addicting and awesome and time-consuming and mind-blowing and as flat out fun as Madden NFL 06 on the original Xbox? Not even close.


Member Comments
# 21 KingV2k3 @ 11/09/13 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Man
Man, what a sad commentary. I think the lesson is that Tiburon isn't capable of making an elite game, period. This was definitely a generation of disappointment for football gamers. Madden went nowhere, NCAA doesn't exist anymore, and APF gave us one tantalizing installment but no more.
This pretty much sums it up...

I'd simply suggest to EA that they:

1) Use the prodigious amount of unused disk space to simply give consumers a "greatest hits" version of the game where ALL of the features that existed or worked at one time or another were FINALLY together "under one roof"...I'm looking at YOU Auto Subs / Sim Stats / Formation Subs / Coach Philosophy / Player Editing in CCM / Build and Design Stadiums / Full complement of responsive sliders / etc.

2) To extrapolate on what wordtobigbird suggested: Crib ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING from the "carcass" of both 2k Football and NCAA...

3) "Lower the bar" by replicating The Show's development, by focusing on refining the core characteristics, instead of trying to reinvent itself over and over, which has lead to "sideways" progression...

I'm no programmer, but the above "to do list" doesn't seem to be that daunting...

As my post history will indicate...I LOVE football and console football gaming, so it's frustrating to experience (year after year) how far superior so many of the other sports tiles are, and continue to be, in comparison to Madden...
 
# 22 Armor and Sword @ 11/09/13 04:48 PM
What is there really left to say?

Underwhelming is the word I would use.

When I consider how much of a leap baseball and basketball gaming took....as well as hockey, tennis and even boxing (can't stand soccer as a sport sorry).

Madden and NCAA fell short.

But despite that it is my feeling that I am playing the best both series has to offer in M25 and NCAA 14.

But it was underwhelming compared to what I get out of MLB 13 and NBA 2K14.

Hopefully the PS4 will give me a superb Madden game.
 
# 23 Cletus @ 11/10/13 12:48 PM
I just dusted APF off. When I first bought it, I didn't really enjoy it but that was mostly it being different from the madden style of play, which I enjoyed on the ps2. It does play like a football game is supposed to play. I had Sammy Baugh throwing into triple coverage on a dime to Dwight Clark who caught it in stride. The other team had no stars in their secondary. It's player separation like APF that is missing in Madden. It's sad that it was in Madden (not on the level of APF) in the ps2 days.

This generation actually turned me away from football gaming and maybe football in general. In NCAA 05 or 06 I actually got all the way through a dynasty. I think it was 75 seasons or so. This generation I haven't gotten through 20 seasons and have only played a handful of games. It's missing the fun factor and none of the games seem like a finished product. Coupling that with NHL series being stellar (especially for EA's standards) and it's the end of football gaming. I have 4 different football games to play and I buy them cheap thinking I might enjoy them but I still play a thousand more games of NHL than NCAA and Madden combined. It's just sad that every football game seems like a WIP instead of a worthy attempt to earn our business.
 
# 24 kjcheezhead @ 11/10/13 01:59 PM
It's sad that madden can't compare to any current sports game. I can look up awesome highlight and fan made vids of Apf, nba 2k and the show. The most memorable madden vids are glitch and cheats like these...

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/home


http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=1P0yfq2wDvU
(Nsfw language)

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=Ov1JNMu1CnI
 
# 25 gr18 @ 11/10/13 04:36 PM
Madden '10 may have been the best received Madden at release because of the garbage before it,but compared to '12 or 25 at this point it really suffers.

I don't think Madden was as good in the ps2/Xbox days as many want to believe either.If you like rb's doing the running man behind the o-line and receivers running routes out of bounds then sure.2k did better in nearly every gameplay category.I'd still be playing 2k8 if they had a franchise and 2k5 if it didn't look bad on a nice t.v.I still like to pop them in every now and then though.
 
# 26 infemous @ 11/10/13 06:36 PM
I don't know about you guys but I'm incredibly bored of waiting for WA to make a good football game.

If I had the money for a PS4 I'd probably get it but as I don't I think I'm just gonna keep on playing GTA and avoiding computer games until I can afford a PS4.

I'm also getting tired of discussing Madden now because it feels so pointless. I just feel like I could spend my time so much more rewardingly.

Venting about madden when I see a vid is nice but I can't keep it up until the next release IMO.
 
# 27 elgreazy1 @ 11/11/13 01:21 PM
I would love to spout of long lines of eloquent verbiage about my disdain for this past generation of football, but I no longer have the energy.

Instead, I'll just sit here and cry.
 
# 28 elgreazy1 @ 11/12/13 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsBeRealPeople
Reality check, guys: 2K doesn't read petitions. You do realize that you can actually just speak directly to 2K, right?

Here is a better plan:

1. Go to Twitter. Make an account. Then once a day, send a message to @2K, @2KSports, and @Ronnie2K, and ask for a new 2K Football game. They read every last one of the messages they get, I know this because I know Ronnie personally and we've spoken about this on 2 occasions. On one occasion, he said he wondered why if people want the game so badly they're not demanding it more? I told him they do want it, they just don't contact 2K for some reason...

2. Go to 2KSports' YouTube channel. Find their most recent videos and ask for a NEW 2K Football game. Do it daily. Again, they read every message.

3. Go to the All-Pro Football videos at the 2KSports YouTube channel and post there, too. Do it daily.

....

I'm already doing what I wrote above. I want a real football game done right, not this crap Tiburon is giving us, and I'm dead serious about it. I wish more people were.

Quit being so passive and go straight to 2K.
Gonna repost this for others to take action. It'll take literally minutes for you to follow these steps.

Football THRIVES on competition, so why aren't we as consumers demanding it? I have purchased/played every football game this gen: Backbreaker, Blitz I & II, APF2K8, NCAA, Madden, Tecmo (XBLA), Avatar Football, etc. but we deserve more!
 

« Previous 12Next »

Post A Comment
Only OS members can post comments
Please login or register to post a comment.