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Will People Adjust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?


RGIII is dangerous running the ball, but only because he is a rare talent.

One of the Madden franchises' most glaring issues in past versions of the game has been with its offensive and defensive line interaction.

The gamer never got a realistic representation of an incredibly important part of football in the line play. We ended up seeing the same two or three animations that didn’t portray any kind of realism.

Madden 25 on next generation systems is touting a new “War in the Trenches” feature which promises to not only give overhauled offensive/defensive line play, but more importantly, it promises to change the way we play the game.

EA Sports’ website has the complete details on the feature, but for those who don’t know, War in the Trenches is Madden’s way of displaying more physical line play and creating a “pocket” for the quarterback.

The quarterback’s pocket is one of the more fundamental areas of football that Madden has neglected to address, so it’s nice to see something finally done to put a more realistic pocket within the game.

It’s a long overdue move, and one that definitely has the potential to significantly improve the game. There's a catch to this leap forwards though.

Could a realistic pocket actually frustrate people and make them more mad than happy?

The answer comes down to which side of the fence the gamer falls on.


Let's face it, you shouldn't be able to rush for 100 yards with Eli Manning ever.

Simulation Gamer

Operation Sports has an amazing sports gaming community that’s significantly based around playing games in a realistic manner.

In other words, a lot of OS'ers like games that create an accurate simulation of the sport.

Something that Madden hasn’t done too good of a job of in recent years.

Not all of us are lucky enough to play in the NFL so we can only guess on certain aspects of the game, but let’s take a shot at some quarterback play based on what we watch every Sunday.

Passing plays start with the quarterback lining up behind or under the center and eventually receiving the ball. From there, it’s a race to see if the quarterback can get the ball out of his hand, or if the defensive line can get to him first. As the quarterback makes his drop and looks for his receivers, his offensive line does their best to create enough time for him to get rid of the ball.

They do this by creating a pocket.

The offensive tackles do their best to push the defensive ends outside and make them take a longer route to the quarterback. The offensive guards then drop back and attempt to hold their position while slowly pushing their man to the outside as well. This is all done so that the quarterback can step into the pocket that his offensive line just created and to create an extra half-second of time to deliver a strike.

Now, think back to your time with Madden. Have you ever been forced to step up in the pocket because it is what was going to be best for your play?

This is just a guess, but most of you probably said no. Instead, the best way to buy time in year’s past has been to roll out of the pocket and try to create as much separation as possible from anything taking place on the line.

Playing roll out of the pocket football on 80 percent of passing plays is about as far from simulation football as it gets.

Madden’s new and improved line play will probably take a little time to get used to, but the majority of simulation gamers will most likely love it if it’s executed properly.

It will fundamentally change the way that people play the game. It’s a little early to say for sure, but it might even create some kind of balance between fast quarterbacks and slow pocket passers.

More balance is always welcome.

Simulation gamers aren’t going to be turned off by a more realistic offensive and defensive line that creates a pocket. It’s another step closer to making Madden play a better game of football that represents what we might see in the actual NFL.


The better line interaction will likely lead to a more fun game on defense.

The Rest

You always hear the word “accessibility” in the gaming world.

Companies like to make their games more user-friendly by making certain features easier to use. Hardcore gamers can’t stand this because it usually leads to less depth, but it is definitely a smart and effective way of gaining a new audience.

There was some heavy criticism about always having to roll out of the pocket in previous Madden games, but not many people can say that doing so was never fun. I’ve had some of my best Madden plays off of incredible rollouts and making things happen.

More important than being fun, though, was that it was easy.

If Madden was trying to be accessible, then they were doing a great job because successfully rolling out of the pocket wasn’t too hard to do.

Creating a new type of interaction on the line could hurt the game’s accessibility, as well as turn off people who already play Madden, but don’t really care about complete realism.

It’s important to note that the verdict is still out on how the new line play feels. There’s a chance that it could be refreshingly easy to step into the pocket and deliver darts all over the field. With that said, the mere act of changing one’s habits of continually rolling out could prove to be too much for some gamers.

It looks like people who continually escape the pocket will run into failure after failure, and there might be a group of people who won’t do anything but stay with their old habits.

They’re probably not going to care for Madden too much after that.


The line play will see serious improvements in next-gen, but will people care?

The Verdict

Only time will tell on this one.

There will definitely be a group of people who feel like a realstic pocket revolutionizes the game and can’t wait to see where Madden goes from here.

There will also be a group of people who want to go back to the old way of playing because they feel like it was more fun.

Madden is cutting it awfully close when it comes to introducing new features. The more years the game is played without something like War in the Trenches, the longer people get used to playing the game a certain way.

Many people have been playing Madden by scrambling with their quarterbacks for years now.

The appeal of a new pocket will only be strong to those who are seeking change or a more realistic game of football.

Everybody else is a wildcard.

Madden controls its own fate by being in charge of making its newer features great. It’ll be interesting to see if the public responds in a positive or negative way based on what Madden 25 on next-gen systems has done.


Madden NFL 25 Videos
Member Comments
# 21 unfriendlyghst @ 11/07/13 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
From what I've been told by people who have played next gen Madden 25, is that you will have a 2-3 second window to throw the ball and make your reads, due to the realistic pocket forming now. The pocket is not going to be forming artificially at all, Clint Oldenburg has been working day and night on this line play stuff and I think people need to be more appreciative of what he's doing. If everyone over there worked as hard as he has, this game would be something very special.

The last thing we want to do is start bashing him and push him away, instead of encourage what he's trying to do, especially before we have ever even played the game.
I like how you say "this line play stuff" like its all smoke screens and magic and that since we were never in the NFL, how could we possibly know what good, organic, realistic line play looks like.

Truth is, this game gets ZERO right when it comes to FOOTBAL. Just on the line for example, the defense attacks 1 at a time, not as a unit or team. You only see individual linemen in 1 vs. 1 engagements or 1 vs. 2. NEVER 1 vs. 3, 2 vs. 2, 2 vs. 3 , 3 vs. 4 ect.....

Talk all you want about what you've heard, but don't try and say that I'm bashing a dev because I can see through the B.S. marketing.
 
# 22 jpdavis82 @ 11/07/13 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfriendlyghst
I like how you say "this line play stuff" like its all smoke screens and magic and that since we were never in the NFL, how could we possibly know what good, organic, realistic line play looks like.

Truth is, this game gets ZERO right when it comes to FOOTBAL. Just on the line for example, the defense attacks 1 at a time, not as a unit or team. You only see individual linemen in 1 vs. 1 engagements or 1 vs. 2. NEVER 1 vs. 3, 2 vs. 2, 2 vs. 3 , 3 vs. 4 ect.....

Talk all you want about what you've heard, but don't try and say that I'm bashing a dev because I can see through the B.S. marketing.
Clint Oldenburg is a former NFL lineman, he knows what he's doing and he's creating a game that replicates real life offensive line play. I'm not going to sit here and act like I know more than a NFL lineman. I don't believe this is smoke screens and magic at all, I think that what Clint is doing is authentic to the NFL.

As far as your comments on the way the defense attacks, Clint wasn't working on the defensive line formations and schemes. He worked on the pass rush animations, but never claimed to be improving all of the defensive line play. He worked on the offensive line schemes and formations and ai.

They will have someone else probably another former NFL or college defensive lineman come in and work on the defensive line play, most likely next year, as next year is supposed to be about balancing out what was done for the offense this year.

Rex talked about having a subject matter expert for new features from now on, so they are done right and not half way like they were in the past.
 
# 23 TeeDogg @ 11/07/13 01:54 PM
Just to be clear I like what they are doing. I just think if it works like it should people will complain about the results they are getting instead of adjusting like bigbird mentioned
 
# 24 hoopvillian @ 11/07/13 01:57 PM
You guys are crazy if you think they're going to make you do pre-snap reads and have to throw within 2 seconds when 80%+ of the player base has no clue how to read defense!
 
# 25 jpdavis82 @ 11/07/13 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopvillian
You guys are crazy if you think they're going to make you do pre-snap reads and have to throw within 2 seconds when 80%+ of the player base has no clue how to read defense!
Crazy or not, that's where this game is going. People need to take Rex and Kolbe seriously when they talk about pushing for simulation. This is just the beginning of them doing things that may infuriate the casual gamer.
 
# 26 tfctillidie @ 11/07/13 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Clint Oldenburg is a former NFL lineman, he knows what he's doing and he's creating a game that replicates real life offensive line play. I'm not going to sit here and act like I know more than a NFL lineman. I don't believe this is smoke screens and magic at all, I think that what Clint is doing is authentic to the NFL.
Show me a lineman who will remain engaged in a block, when he's fully turned the OL to the side and is no longer in his path to the QB.
 
# 27 unfriendlyghst @ 11/07/13 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Rex talked about having a subject matter expert for new features from now on, so they are done right and not half way like they were in the past.
You just let me know then when they spend that 1rst round pick on a weatherman, er, METEOROLOGIST, so that the wind meter isn't BACKWARDS for a 4th straight year.
 
# 28 SageInfinite @ 11/07/13 02:03 PM
The problem I see happening with Madden next gen is not enough realistic elements combining with the new line play. The db's still moving unrealistically to defend plays. Receivers not running better routes or fighting for the ball with more realistic catch animations. QB's still throwing at receivers and not spots, also being too accurate. Just too many missing elements to make a good difference this year.
 
# 29 mikey04 @ 11/07/13 02:04 PM
[quote=josef;2045637429]I think when you boot up the game, it should ask something like: "Are you a casual gamer? Or hardcore football simulation guy?" It would then be set for "Arcade" or "Sim." (obviously, you could change this setting at any time). And then the game should play VERY differently on the different settings. Arcade would have less penalties, be easier to pick up and play (default to Gameflow play calling), have a faster game speed, all players would have crazy end zone celebrations, there would be less injuries, etc, etc. "Sim" would have realistic # and occurrences of penalties and injuries, slower game speed, realistic pocket, more realistic stats, etc. etc. There is no reason they couldn't get the game to work for both audiences.

They may even have this setting already (I haven't played Madden in a few years), but the difference b/w an "Arcade" type mode and "Sim" should be very noticeable.. so they could cater to both crowds.. that is my point.

All that being said, I'm very excited for this year's Madden. I like some of the steps they've taken to try to improve the gameplay.


THIS RIGHT HERE is the answer. Like nba2k in their settings. SIM or ARCADE. IT really is not that hard. I dont understand why they cannot just do this to make everyone happy. It is amazing how easy a fix this is. Unbelievable.
 
# 30 jpdavis82 @ 11/07/13 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageInfinite
The problem I see happening with Madden next gen is not enough realistic elements combining with the new line play. The db's still moving unrealistically to defend plays. Receivers not running better routes or fighting for the ball with more realistic catch animations. QB's still throwing at receivers and not spots, also being too accurate. Just too many missing elements to make a good difference this year.
Bottom line, the game is unbalanced, but they are going to balance it out.
 
# 31 TeeDogg @ 11/07/13 02:06 PM
That's really what I was getting at lol. I didn't want to say it but .......lol. I remember years ago when I use to use motion to help ID the coverage then felt like I had to do a quick read right at the snap, then go through progressions. If I wanted to go deep, reading the safeties was a must. I just haven't felt like video game demanded this in a long time.

Lol I hope the DB coverage is as good as they say because I will be in FB heaven but the gaming community as a whole I'm not so sure.

Oops, meant to quote hoopvillan from previous page
 
# 32 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wech
Do you care to share your sliders? I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks.
I just used these sliders

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...5-sliders.html

Turned false start down to 1 to help the defenders get a better jump on the oline. If you want to help the pass rush on your sliders raise offesides, lower false start. the problem with lowering pass block too much is that your players will lose the ability to even attempt blocking. It's a struggle to try and find some balance.
 
# 33 dghustla @ 11/07/13 02:17 PM
Stopped reading after I saw a section title "Simulation Gamer". EA/Madden is the only NFL game on the market and basically the only football on major consoles that releases every year. Everyone who buys the game will adjust because they have no choice but to.

I hate the constant segregation of Simulation and Non-Simulation gamers. I think all parties invested want the most realistic football video game possible sans things like fumbled snaps, or unforced errors which could unbalance the game. I've never met anyone "causal or sim" who said they wanted unrealistic line play, unrealistic throws and catches, and broken penalties. Ppl abused QB drop backs because they could. One thing about cheesers is that they will always find a way.
 
# 34 dghustla @ 11/07/13 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
I've never understood this whole, "but what about the casuals?" crap. As someone who has been playing football games since the days of the ATari 2600, I've seen all types. Tiburon needs to stop with this delusion that they need to appeal to the "tournament" crowd or "casuals". These people couldn't care less about how the game is implemented. They will play it either way and they will figure it out. Those are the people who will buy Madden no matter what just because its madden.

I don't understand why there is so much concern over tourney players. They are the madden addicts that play the game simply because it's a head to head game. No matter how its implemented they will still play it. There is a larger base of people than you think that want a realistic simulation. The sales that they are losing are the folks who want more realism. Those are the folks who will not simply buy the game every year no matter what.

The whole issue with tournament play and other nonsense should not even be brought up in development at Tiburon. You are making an NFL simulation game (supposedly). Not a head to head game loosely based on NFL football (which is what we have right now). I was excited about things until that interview when I heard the reasoning behind no bad snaps. "What if you are in a tournament for 100k you lose on a bad snap?". Give me a break. Things haven't changed there as much as they say they have. I don't hear Mike Wang saying that they've removed missed jump shots in NBA 2k.

After seeing what 2k has done with basketball and now what the Show has done (they've enabled you to continue your franchise to the next release of the game), I look at Madden and I simply shake my head. My favorite sport had to be completely destroyed by greed and incompetence. To think of what NFL 2k football would be like right now is enough to make me depressed for a good while. These games are really moving to next gen level, meanwhile with football, we get coach glass and partial fixes to player movement and running.
This, its overblown and nauseating. Games like Gears of Wars don't care if their causal fans can't beat "Hardcore Mode". It's only for the elite of the elite players. Growing up I use to play my dad in tecmo and madden and qb club, and get spanked because I didn't understand the game. You will play what's in front of you and learn how play in the frame work of the system. I hate to bring up 2k but their basketball game has proven that "Sim and Non-Sim" gamers what the same thing. Which is realism. Cheesers will find a way to cheese it up regardless and have their cheesy fun.
 
# 35 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeDogg
I think we are actually on the same page. I play my game exactly like you described. What I was getting at is with life like pressure from the DEs forcing quick reads and panic throws by "Gamers" should lead to a lot of picks. Until you learn to read cvgs go through progressions quickly, make sound desicions in split seconds. That's going to cause the things I mentioned. And if you hold the ball too long you get sacked. People will have to adjust if they implement it right or deal with high picks and sacks.
IF its implemented right.
Word. I hope it is. This is how it should be. The difference in the NFL is the QB play. Those QBs that panic and cant read defense struggle and their team struggles. Teams with weaker passing attacks/QBs have to avoid obvious passing downs. 3rd and long should be trouble.

We have an unfair advantage playing madden in that we can see the whole field from the top down view. So before the play starts you get a perfect view of the defense. For me its pretty easy to decide where to go before the play starts. As long as my QB has decent accuracy the passing game is way too easy for me.

I am looking forward to football skills playing into Madden. If you don't know where to attack when you see a single high safety then you should door poorly passing until you learn.
 
# 36 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopvillian
You guys are crazy if you think they're going to make you do pre-snap reads and have to throw within 2 seconds when 80%+ of the player base has no clue how to read defense!


Reading a defense should be in Skills Trainer 101.

For example, I don't know anything about soccer. But FIFA's tutortials taught me how to play the game and I enjoy it for it. When I just started playing without doing them I had no idea what was going on and I sucked. Then I learned and got better. I hope Madden follows suit.

If people find it too hard, turn it to rookie. All-Pro should be realistically difficult.
 
# 37 Demoncrom @ 11/07/13 02:29 PM
2k Players will have no problem adjusting as this is how it was supposed to be in the 1st place and 2K did it like this years ago. No running backwards to throw a forward pass as it would gimp your passer rating and having a pocket actually collapse to allow the Defense a chance to at least harass the passer.

Sim Madden players will also have no problem with this adjustment and for all its about time. With the update to the run blocking maybe the fun part of the game you know the defense vs offense battle and good play calling and execution as opposed to trick plays will get back into the game
 
# 38 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 02:34 PM
I think another key is the CPU AI.

The CPU has to be able to call plays, use the full extent of their playbook, adapt to users calling the same plays over and over, call the correct plays for the situation, play to the strengths of their team, etc. This also means that teams with great front 4 should be able to get pressure with that front 4 while other teams have to do more to create pressure.

Can't say I'm confident that M25 next-gen will accomplish this. Fingers crossed though.
 
# 39 wech @ 11/07/13 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordtobigbird
I just used these sliders

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...5-sliders.html

Turned false start down to 1 to help the defenders get a better jump on the oline. If you want to help the pass rush on your sliders raise offesides, lower false start. the problem with lowering pass block too much is that your players will lose the ability to even attempt blocking. It's a struggle to try and find some balance.
Thanks! 10char
 
# 40 jahswill @ 11/07/13 03:30 PM
The bottom line is EA needs to take a page from NBA 2K and implement different modes, casual, default and simulation. This is the only way to appease everyone! They could also throw in different lobbies for online play. This has been said on OS repeatedly!
 


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