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Will People Adjust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?


RGIII is dangerous running the ball, but only because he is a rare talent.

One of the Madden franchises' most glaring issues in past versions of the game has been with its offensive and defensive line interaction.

The gamer never got a realistic representation of an incredibly important part of football in the line play. We ended up seeing the same two or three animations that didn’t portray any kind of realism.

Madden 25 on next generation systems is touting a new “War in the Trenches” feature which promises to not only give overhauled offensive/defensive line play, but more importantly, it promises to change the way we play the game.

EA Sports’ website has the complete details on the feature, but for those who don’t know, War in the Trenches is Madden’s way of displaying more physical line play and creating a “pocket” for the quarterback.

The quarterback’s pocket is one of the more fundamental areas of football that Madden has neglected to address, so it’s nice to see something finally done to put a more realistic pocket within the game.

It’s a long overdue move, and one that definitely has the potential to significantly improve the game. There's a catch to this leap forwards though.

Could a realistic pocket actually frustrate people and make them more mad than happy?

The answer comes down to which side of the fence the gamer falls on.


Let's face it, you shouldn't be able to rush for 100 yards with Eli Manning ever.

Simulation Gamer

Operation Sports has an amazing sports gaming community that’s significantly based around playing games in a realistic manner.

In other words, a lot of OS'ers like games that create an accurate simulation of the sport.

Something that Madden hasn’t done too good of a job of in recent years.

Not all of us are lucky enough to play in the NFL so we can only guess on certain aspects of the game, but let’s take a shot at some quarterback play based on what we watch every Sunday.

Passing plays start with the quarterback lining up behind or under the center and eventually receiving the ball. From there, it’s a race to see if the quarterback can get the ball out of his hand, or if the defensive line can get to him first. As the quarterback makes his drop and looks for his receivers, his offensive line does their best to create enough time for him to get rid of the ball.

They do this by creating a pocket.

The offensive tackles do their best to push the defensive ends outside and make them take a longer route to the quarterback. The offensive guards then drop back and attempt to hold their position while slowly pushing their man to the outside as well. This is all done so that the quarterback can step into the pocket that his offensive line just created and to create an extra half-second of time to deliver a strike.

Now, think back to your time with Madden. Have you ever been forced to step up in the pocket because it is what was going to be best for your play?

This is just a guess, but most of you probably said no. Instead, the best way to buy time in year’s past has been to roll out of the pocket and try to create as much separation as possible from anything taking place on the line.

Playing roll out of the pocket football on 80 percent of passing plays is about as far from simulation football as it gets.

Madden’s new and improved line play will probably take a little time to get used to, but the majority of simulation gamers will most likely love it if it’s executed properly.

It will fundamentally change the way that people play the game. It’s a little early to say for sure, but it might even create some kind of balance between fast quarterbacks and slow pocket passers.

More balance is always welcome.

Simulation gamers aren’t going to be turned off by a more realistic offensive and defensive line that creates a pocket. It’s another step closer to making Madden play a better game of football that represents what we might see in the actual NFL.


The better line interaction will likely lead to a more fun game on defense.

The Rest

You always hear the word “accessibility” in the gaming world.

Companies like to make their games more user-friendly by making certain features easier to use. Hardcore gamers can’t stand this because it usually leads to less depth, but it is definitely a smart and effective way of gaining a new audience.

There was some heavy criticism about always having to roll out of the pocket in previous Madden games, but not many people can say that doing so was never fun. I’ve had some of my best Madden plays off of incredible rollouts and making things happen.

More important than being fun, though, was that it was easy.

If Madden was trying to be accessible, then they were doing a great job because successfully rolling out of the pocket wasn’t too hard to do.

Creating a new type of interaction on the line could hurt the game’s accessibility, as well as turn off people who already play Madden, but don’t really care about complete realism.

It’s important to note that the verdict is still out on how the new line play feels. There’s a chance that it could be refreshingly easy to step into the pocket and deliver darts all over the field. With that said, the mere act of changing one’s habits of continually rolling out could prove to be too much for some gamers.

It looks like people who continually escape the pocket will run into failure after failure, and there might be a group of people who won’t do anything but stay with their old habits.

They’re probably not going to care for Madden too much after that.


The line play will see serious improvements in next-gen, but will people care?

The Verdict

Only time will tell on this one.

There will definitely be a group of people who feel like a realstic pocket revolutionizes the game and can’t wait to see where Madden goes from here.

There will also be a group of people who want to go back to the old way of playing because they feel like it was more fun.

Madden is cutting it awfully close when it comes to introducing new features. The more years the game is played without something like War in the Trenches, the longer people get used to playing the game a certain way.

Many people have been playing Madden by scrambling with their quarterbacks for years now.

The appeal of a new pocket will only be strong to those who are seeking change or a more realistic game of football.

Everybody else is a wildcard.

Madden controls its own fate by being in charge of making its newer features great. It’ll be interesting to see if the public responds in a positive or negative way based on what Madden 25 on next-gen systems has done.


Madden NFL 25 Videos
Member Comments
# 1 soonermagic88 @ 11/07/13 11:38 AM
You hit the nail on the head. The sim guys will love it. Those who like arcade style probably won't.
I'm a sim guy and former lineman so this is something i've been wanting for a LONG time.
I just hope the non sim community doesn't cry about it and cause EA to fix (break) it.
 
# 2 NDAlum @ 11/07/13 11:47 AM
I highly doubt they will put an end to guys rolling out and abusing the poor Madden AI

If they do kudos to the Madden team

However I won't hold my breath
 
# 3 kjcheezhead @ 11/07/13 11:51 AM
Let's hope so. The last time they tried this was Madden 10 and Ian mentioned in some interviews his fear people would keep dropping back and getting sacked. I don't think the pocket was the problem, but 10s sales weren't great and EA responded by going with more arcade style in 11.

I have my complaints with Madden, but the new pocket isn't one of them (at least what they shown so far). I just want to see it complimented with a more realistic route based passing game.
 
# 4 sactown_13 @ 11/07/13 11:53 AM
WR/DB interaction is huge in this sense. love that they touched the line but it will be for none if they dont fix the megatron vs random d back
 
# 5 tfctillidie @ 11/07/13 12:10 PM
I assume the sim crowd will appreciate it....but it's really hard to evaluate when we've seen so little.
 
# 6 roadman @ 11/07/13 12:12 PM
Casuals should be able to adjust to a real pocket.
 
# 7 maddenps2 @ 11/07/13 12:22 PM
Lets see how it works before passing judgement on how people will react, we have seen similar boasts of new technology by the madden development team before, such as advanced tackling systems, and advanced step mechanics that never panned out or made the gameplay that much more realistic or sim like.
 
# 8 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 12:23 PM
People WILL complain heavily.

"I can't even drop back without getting sacked!"

"Why can't I scramble anymore?!"

"madden ruined the passing! i use to be able to throw for 300 yards easily!"

A lot of people don't like difficulty or change, but if it's implemented realistically and explained properly with a skills trainer it would help the transition.
 
# 9 therealsmallville @ 11/07/13 12:48 PM
I'm a sim player, but I hope the tourney guys adjust quickly to it. I think Rex said something about "no more back of the box features that will disappear the following year", or words to that effect. If the tournament players don't like it, it'll be interesting to see if it stays because it seems like they get catered to more than us.
 
# 10 SageInfinite @ 11/07/13 12:50 PM
Cheesers will always find a way to cheese. Just keep making the game as realistic as possible. The jury is still out on whether the pocket even makes a real difference. The game hasn't been displayed to us outside of a controlled environment. Roll and chuck and super drop backs could still work.
 
# 11 Only1LT @ 11/07/13 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMChrisS

RGIII is dangerous running the ball, but only because he is a rare talent.

One of the Madden franchises' most glaring issues in past versions of the game has been with its offensive and defensive line interaction.

The gamer never got a realistic representation of an incredibly important part of football in the line play. We ended up seeing the same two or three animations that didn’t portray any kind of realism.

Madden 25 on next generation systems is touting a new “War in the Trenches” feature which promises to not only give overhauled offensive/defensive line play, but more importantly, it promises to change the way we play the game.

Read More - Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?
What game is that picture from...?
 
# 12 TeeDogg @ 11/07/13 01:02 PM
If they make it totally realistic I think both casual and so called sim guys will not like it. There will be insane numbers of both sacks and picks. Thumb jockeys will take DE's and become wrecking forces. But it will all depend on its implementation. As said above just because they are attempting this doesn't mean it won't have exploits or A.I. holes on both sides of the ball. I look forward to the challenge, I loose many games now because of bad throws by Rothlesberger (me) usually because of a bad read. So I can imagine how it will be with an intensified pass rush.

In fact I think even us simmers are so spoiled by just waiting till someone comes open, reading the coverage and making a throw in 2-3 secs will be culture shock lol
 
# 13 josef @ 11/07/13 01:09 PM
I think when you boot up the game, it should ask something like: "Are you a casual gamer? Or hardcore football simulation guy?" It would then be set for "Arcade" or "Sim." (obviously, you could change this setting at any time). And then the game should play VERY differently on the different settings. Arcade would have less penalties, be easier to pick up and play (default to Gameflow play calling), have a faster game speed, all players would have crazy end zone celebrations, there would be less injuries, etc, etc. "Sim" would have realistic # and occurrences of penalties and injuries, slower game speed, realistic pocket, more realistic stats, etc. etc. There is no reason they couldn't get the game to work for both audiences.

They may even have this setting already (I haven't played Madden in a few years), but the difference b/w an "Arcade" type mode and "Sim" should be very noticeable.. so they could cater to both crowds.. that is my point.

All that being said, I'm very excited for this year's Madden. I like some of the steps they've taken to try to improve the gameplay.

[EDIT: Big FN Deal is right on. Beat me to it.]
 
# 14 unfriendlyghst @ 11/07/13 01:18 PM
IMO, This is just a graphical update and not a mechanical one. I think the pocket is being formed artificially and that it has no bearing on the gameplay.
 
# 15 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by josef
I think when you boot up the game, it should ask something like: "Are you a casual gamer? Or hardcore football simulation guy?" It would then be set for "Arcade" or "Sim." (obviously, you could change this setting at any time). And then the game should play VERY differently on the different settings. Arcade would have less penalties, be easier to pick up and play (default to Gameflow play calling), have a faster game speed, all players would have crazy end zone celebrations, there would be less injuries, etc, etc. "Sim" would have realistic # and occurrences of penalties and injuries, slower game speed, realistic pocket, more realistic stats, etc. etc. There is no reason they couldn't get the game to work for both audiences.

They may even have this setting already (I haven't played Madden in a few years), but the difference b/w an "Arcade" type mode and "Sim" should be very noticeable.. so they could cater to both crowds.. that is my point.

All that being said, I'm very excited for this year's Madden. I like some of the steps they've taken to try to improve the gameplay.

[EDIT: Big FN Deal is right on. Beat me to it.]
This would be great IF Ea could even get the aspects of football down right in the first place, if penalties actually worked in the first place. They have no foundation built to focus on attention to details imo.

Most guys looking for a sim experience already try to do this with sliders and its damn near impossible.
 
# 16 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeDogg
If they make it totally realistic I think both casual and so called sim guys will not like it. There will be insane numbers of both sacks and picks. Thumb jockeys will take DE's and become wrecking forces. But it will all depend on its implementation. As said above just because they are attempting this doesn't mean it won't have exploits or A.I. holes on both sides of the ball. I look forward to the challenge, I loose many games now because of bad throws by Rothlesberger (me) usually because of a bad read. So I can imagine how it will be with an intensified pass rush.

In fact I think even us simmers are so spoiled by just waiting till someone comes open, reading the coverage and making a throw in 2-3 secs will be culture shock lol
I disagree.

I play Madden like it's football. I try to make my throws as soon as he finishes his drop. I try to throw the ball before the WR makes his break. I step up in the pocket. I have my sliders set so I dont get more than 3-4 seconds to throw. I can't stand playing against no pass rush. Passing is already too easy with the total control passing.

Why would realism lead to insane number of picks and sacks? If they make a realistic game then there should be plenty of ways to counter the pressure. If you know you have a bad oline call shorter drops, check down to the WRs, call screens against heavy blitzers, slide your oline to the dangerous DE, keep a RB/TE in to block.
 
# 17 jpdavis82 @ 11/07/13 01:27 PM
I think some people will complain, but some people have always complained. If what Kolbe has in mind for this game gets implemented, I've been told some people (casuals) are going to HATE Madden in the future. They have been talking about making some drastic changes towards simulation with Kolbe. He's all about simulation, so if he has much to say about it, I would expect a lot of casuals to be very upset with the direction this game is heading.

From what I've been told by people who have played next gen Madden 25, is that you will have a 2-3 second window to throw the ball and make your reads, due to the realistic pocket forming now. The pocket is not going to be forming artificially at all, Clint Oldenburg has been working day and night on this line play stuff and I think people need to be more appreciative of what he's doing. If everyone over there worked as hard as he has, this game would be something very special.

The last thing we want to do is start bashing him and push him away, instead of encourage what he's trying to do, especially before we have ever even played the game.
 
# 18 wordtobigbird @ 11/07/13 01:34 PM
In all the videos EA as shown they had more than 2-3 seconds to throw.. They highlighted the Olines ability to pick up blitzes with the 48192843921 calculations per second. They showed the DE getting pushed down pass Vick and he had an EXTRA 2-3 seconds after that. I hope what youre saying is true because that is realistic. You should only get a couple of seconds. You are suppose to make PRE snap reads. You should know where are you going before you even snap the ball. Once the ball is snapped you are only using those 2 seconds to confirm your read and if anything is wrong you throw the check down. Unless you're a bad QB, then you take sacks and throw INTs.

Just for reference.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...time-to-throw/
 
# 19 wech @ 11/07/13 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordtobigbird
I disagree.

I play Madden like it's football. I try to make my throws as soon as he finishes his drop. I try to throw the ball before the WR makes his break. I step up in the pocket. I have my sliders set so I dont get more than 3-4 seconds to throw. I can't stand playing against no pass rush. Passing is already too easy with the total control passing.

Why would realism lead to insane number of picks and sacks? If they make a realistic game then there should be plenty of ways to counter the pressure. If you know you have a bad oline call shorter drops, check down to the WRs, call screens against heavy blitzers, slide your oline to the dangerous DE, keep a RB/TE in to block.
Do you care to share your sliders? I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks.
 
# 20 TeeDogg @ 11/07/13 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordtobigbird
I disagree.

I play Madden like it's football. I try to make my throws as soon as he finishes his drop. I try to throw the ball before the WR makes his break. I step up in the pocket. I have my sliders set so I dont get more than 3-4 seconds to throw. I can't stand playing against no pass rush. Passing is already too easy with the total control passing.

Why would realism lead to insane number of picks and sacks? If they make a realistic game then there should be plenty of ways to counter the pressure. If you know you have a bad oline call shorter drops, check down to the WRs, call screens against heavy blitzers, slide your oline to the dangerous DE, keep a RB/TE in to block.
I think we are actually on the same page. I play my game exactly like you described. What I was getting at is with life like pressure from the DEs forcing quick reads and panic throws by "Gamers" should lead to a lot of picks. Until you learn to read cvgs go through progressions quickly, make sound desicions in split seconds. That's going to cause the things I mentioned. And if you hold the ball too long you get sacked. People will have to adjust if they implement it right or deal with high picks and sacks.
IF its implemented right.
 

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