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Madden's Defensive Issues

There are some aspects of the game that EA nails. While those aspects are nailed they come with a conundrums. I can only ask why. Sometimes on defense I like to drop to an eight man in the box or I like to run secondary blitzes. I already did a write up on timed blitzes and player movement prior to the snap. Here, I want to focus on the blitzes and coverage schemes in the game that do have pre-snap movement and ask the question, frustratingly, WHY?

The play I want to look at is 3-4 Under Roll Eagle 2. Last year in Madden, the play was called Roll Eagle 2 Invert.



The defense still runs a two-deep zone, but is benefited by dropping a safety in the box. If this were 3-4 Predator, I would have an additional question, namely where is the compliment play? In other words, where is the same coverage call with the Strong Safety dropping down in the box and lining up next to the Sam, which would give the defense a Bear (alignments might be off a bit but it’s the principle of the matter) front.


Credit www.shakinthesouthland.com for image

If we had a strong side version with the Strong Safety dropping in the box and lining up by the Sam then we could actually begin to move away from adding so many defenses in the game. Ideally, you should be able to use one front as your base and be multiple out of the huddle until the snap. With the Predator for instance, I should be able to move to Bear with multiple coverages behind it; Over, Over Ed ect. Alas, that complementary coverage is not in the game.

Let’s go to the video and get to the matter at hand.


So there you have it. Why have the secondary reset just because one or both groups in the front seven moves? What they are making you do is waste time manually moving people. If you do not move them, they will be out of place on the snap. Notice if you move the front seven, the free safety, who is covering the deep half, is going to be way out of position. You will need to manually move him to the opposite side of the field (rolling cover 2), and you will also need to manually move the Strong Safety as he gets down in the box to keep the box loaded. While the movement required is minimal, it's a waste of time. You could spend that time analyzing the offensive formation, looking for weak points.

Several other plays that could possibly create great and legitimate zone-blitz overloads fall in line here. Let’s take a look at some of them.



Dollar 3-2-6 Okie Roll 3
If you could spread your defensive line or shift it to the same side as the rushers and shift the linebackers the other way, you could actually package this play with others and keep the offense guessing which side to slide. But once you shift the defensive line or the linebackers, the secondary resets and does not move again.



Dollar FS Zone Blitz
Same as Okie Roll 3. You get the Free Safety walking it up prior to the snap. But they will not allow him to sit still if you shift the defensive line or linebackers.

Other plays include:

Nickel Normal, 2-4-5 DBL Safety Go
Dollar, Dime DBL Safety Go



Nickel 335 SS Mike Cross 3


FS Middle Blitz 3



3 Crash Switch



I could continue. What is the answer? Why can we not shift the line in conjunction with these blitzes and not have the secondary defenders reset? Please don’t give me a company line about making it too easy to blitz, when guys are already talking about two-man nanos.


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Member Comments
# 21 cmehustle @ 09/13/12 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyBass
Okay so here it is, a proposal for new and more streamlined pre-snap system:

There would be six total pre-snap options for both offense and defense, consisting of contrasting core concepts that augment each play in an attempt to gain an advantage. One of these options would appear on the play calling screen, while the other five would appear at the line of scrimmage.

Here they are, listed next to each other, offense vs. defense:

1. Shifts

This first option would appear on the play calling screen, and would amount to disguising the formation of the play called.

Offense
A simple example of this would be coming out in a tight formation, and then shifting to a spread. The main idea is to keep the defense guessing.

Defense
Same idea here. The defense would line up in one formation, then quickly shift in an attempt to hide just what they are doing. This could mean safeties coming up to the line, then backing off.

The next five would be at the line of scrimmage:

2. Trade vs Line/LB shift


Offense: Trade
Essentially putting one or two guys in motion, but different from motion in that these players are part of the offensive line (like a TE or FB) and "trade" sides. The main intent here is to gain an advantage against the front seven.

Defense: Line/LB shift
The counter to a trade would be to shift either the line or the LBs, so that any advantage gained would be neutralized. The user would select "Trade" from the menu and then either "Line" or "LB" to make the shift.

3. Motion vs LB/DB shift

Offense

Pretty basic fundamental stuff here: put a receiver or back in motion. One thing I'd like to see is for routes to flip, so that out routes stayed out routes when a man motioned to the other side.

Defense
The defense would actually adjust automatically, regardless of zone or man coverage. The wrinkle would be the ability to shift LBs or DBs too. So for example if there was a single safety deep, and a receiver went in motion, the user could slide that safety over by selecting: "Motion" and then "DB" to shift the shell coverage.

4. Blitz pick up vs Bluff blitz

Offense
Here the offense would attempt to read where a blitz was coming from. The user would select "Blitz pick up" from the pre-snap menu, then left or right to provide slide protection. Other options available after choosing "Blitz pick up" would be TE, RB, and/or FB which would assign those guys to help pick up the blitz.

Defense
The defensive counter to this would be Bluff blitz. When choosing "Bluff blitz" the user could then choose left or right, which would try to confuse the offense and force them to change what they are doing.

5. Hot route vs Individual DB coverage


Offense
Hot routes are pretty self explanatory, used to counter blitzes and exploit imbalances.

Defense
This area could use streamlining big time. Way too many button presses to be useful at the moment. This menu option would also read something like "Receiver spotlight" and give the option to focus on one receiver, with things like: press, shade inside/outside, back off, and double coverage. Essentially it would function as a way to nullify certain players and certain routes.

6. Audible vs Audible

Audibles are also self explanatory. The one thing I will say is that the current system is about as archaic as you can get. Even Bart Starr's grandpa ran stuff more complex. I suggest formation specific audibles, ones beyond the four basic ones (quick pass, etc.) and the five you see when selecting "More".

I mean, I'm pretty sure the "More" choices date back to the very first audible system ever used in Madden. We're well past due for an upgrade there.

Specific audibles for specific formations are the way to go, and would also fit into any plans for custom playbooks.

Conclusion

The other aspect of this is how the AI uses all of these things. I propose that easier difficulties use very few pre-snap adjustments, while harder difficulties adjust to what you do pre-snap at a much higher and accurate rate.

Bottom line is this streamlined system would not only be easier to use, it would also be a bit more realistic, with each pre-snap option having a contrasting counterpart on the other side of the ball.
Cosign! I completely endorse this message.
 
# 22 Smoke6 @ 09/13/12 11:12 AM
What irks me is the way 99% of online payers are doing on defense and it works alot... SHOW BLITZ, SPREAD LINE and BRING A SAFETY DOWN!!!

All this is to stop the run and they are still capable of shutting down a passing attack. I see people trying to stop me running and bring the safety down form the opposite side of where my play is going and can change direction lighting fast. I try to run up the middle, and the DB is there before I can get to the LOS as he ghosts thru his own teammates to make a tackle on my "power back".

Once again, risk vs reward seems to have been put to the wayside as far as player movement is concerned and bad play calling. I been thru this with the manual control of safeties covering any and everywhere at the drop of a dime but my main concern is the shedding of blockers that defenders make when you do run thru the holes properly only to get tackled at full speed from a defender that just shedded off a block standing still.

Defense is just messy with regards to no huddling and it seems its catching on that people are all running their offenses based on this and its annoying. Back in the day, you get an offsides for excessively running no huddle.

One big thing that stands out to me is not the running backwards of the QBs, but its the "no look passes" they make accurately when they feel heat on them. I have never seen a QB run to the right and just throw the to the left side of the field or across his shoulder as he is sprinting.scrambling away from the pressure.

But great thread OP and LBZ
 
# 23 mr_dukes @ 09/13/12 11:13 AM
They need to put defensive assignments back in the game

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
 
# 24 dubbduces @ 09/13/12 12:09 PM
Great write up LB, I agree 100%.
 
# 25 RandyBass @ 09/13/12 04:37 PM
Quote:
4. Blitz pick up vs Bluff blitz

Offense
Here the offense would attempt to read where a blitz was coming from. The user would select "Blitz pick up" from the pre-snap menu, then left or right to provide slide protection. Other options available after choosing "Blitz pick up" would be TE, RB, and/or FB which would assign those guys to help pick up the blitz.

Defense
The defensive counter to this would be Bluff blitz. When choosing "Bluff blitz" the user could then choose left or right, which would try to confuse the offense and force them to change what they are doing.
Actually for blitz pick up and bluff blitz it should be: left, right, or center.

I hope the general idea of this proposal is clear however: that users should be asking themselves pre-snap, how can I augment the play call so that I can be successful?

The six options I proposed answer that question, providing access to pre-snap adjustments that are easy to understand and easy to execute. With one of the six, the "Shift Formation" option, being available at the formation selection screen.
 
# 26 RandyBass @ 09/14/12 09:05 PM
One other thing that came to mind is having the pre-snap menus run horizontal on the screen, with offense on the bottom and defense on the top, rather than having those menus pop up and block your view.

If you're going to make pre-snap adjustments you kind of need to see what is going on. I know some guys turn off the menus all together, but for those that don't, being able to actually see the action on the field is important.
 
# 27 truintellectplaya @ 09/17/12 03:35 PM
Have not even tried the demo. Thanks for this right because it just basically confirms what I already knew.
 
# 28 RandyBass @ 09/17/12 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick589
Can we please finally get Strong side and Weak side lbs? I like to run a 4-3 so this is really important to me since the sam and will do different things in terms of assignment and responsibilities.
There's a ton of little things like this that nag on the game strategy wise. My latest pet peeve: no way to swap RBs on the fly, at the play call screen.

I know they got sub in/out, but you can't control that. They also got the 3rd down back, but not every team works that way. Most teams in the NFL run two or even three back systems, with very specific roles for each back. This isn't really reflected right in Madden.

Something as simple as personnel packages would help solve that, with the AI programmed to mix up the personnel to fit the situation. Then yes, a simple button press for the user, to swap out the RB to the 2nd or 3rd RB on the depth chart.
 
# 29 RandyBass @ 09/17/12 07:43 PM
^ And I don't see why it has to be an either/or. They can appeal to the mainstream, and still have a rich and deep game for those sim heads who like to dig deep into the strategy of football.

I never understood that argument, the "sim" versus the "casual" player. There is no versus here. Just make the default cater to the casual, with all the in depth stuff set to be simulated or automated, while still offering setting and strategy tweaks for the sim player. You can have it both ways in this situation.

They could even set it up so the pre-snap stuff I proposed was automated.

Basically just have two different settings for just about everything in the game: user controlled and AI controlled.

All this catering to the "casual" player, it's like cutting off your nose despite your face, and you run into problems like the ones brought up in the article by LBzrule. There is a better way.
 

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