Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

Feature Article

Submitted on: 07/30/2012 by LBzRule

One of the new additions for Madden and NCAA this year that excites me in the new four-man slide protections. Since the offensive and defensive lines will not receive an overhaul this year, at least having something at our disposal is a plus for building protection schemes. As I sat and played NCAA 13, I discovered some good and some bad about slide protection. In the end, I think users are still left with a critical question: can you trust it?

Credit Gridironstrategies.com for Image.

The above diagram showcases a four-man slide protection scheme with the Center, Left Guard, Right Guard and Right Tackle working in tandem and sliding to the right side. The left tackle is Big on Big; the halfback kicks to the left side and slams the B gap closed in the event the backer rushes. This all makes sense and looks great. Let’s look at this in NCAA 13 and see if it mirrors what is going on here.

Credit primamadden.com for the image

The two plays I will put on the field here are Singleback Slot Levels Divide, which has two option routes on the right and the Levels Concept on the left making for a multiple option play.

I run this play against 4-3 Stack OLB Fire Man.

Credit primamadden.com for the image

The Fire Man is a perfect play to showcase this with since both the Will backer and the Sam are rushing.

Credit GridironStrategies.com

Going back to our four-man slide diagram above, I should be able to slide the offensive line to the TE. The HB will be blocking to the weak side, picking up the linebacker as he fires through the B gap. With any type of blocking skills, the quarterback should be able to scan the field and get the pass off with this six-man protection in the face of the 4-3 Stack Fire man.

Credit GridironStrategies.com

When we look at the Madden screens and video, just like the diagram here, the Left Guard is not covered although there is a one technique shade (this may play into keys to look for how to slide your line that I might cover in a later article) that might throw off the blocking. I’m not certain. With a slide-right call, the linemen should be looking to the defender to their right and checking gap responsibility right. The left tackle is big on big so he should take the RE.

The above screenshot showcases all the adjustments described above. This also looks exactly like the diagram for four-man slide protection that I began with. The question is, does it work as described?

On the snap of the football we encounter a big problem. The Center does not slide to the side of the call. The Left Guard does not slide either. The Right Guard and Right Tackle slide. This creates an open lane for the Left Defensive tackle.

The halfback, who should be stepping up into the B gap to pick up the Will backer slides back over and attempts to block the free rushing defensive tackle and whiffs. The result of the play is a sack.

If the defensive line is reduced and the linebackers are lined up over to the tight end side one would think that if the offensive line slides to the Tight End and the HB blocks back side with the left tackle it would be the proper call. The result is the same. The Center does not slide and the defensive tackle runs right up the gut untouched. The halfback will slide back over on occasion and attempt to pick the big guy up. Say what? Yes a HB attempting to pick up a DT.

Let’s look at the tape.

Now that was pretty bad. Again, I want to be clear, there is some good with the slide protection. Just do not expect it to run like it would in real life because as the tape showed, that is not going to happen. There are also times where linemen will shift behind each other, which does not make sense with slides. As I tinkered with the slide protection, I saw no communication between the Center, Left Guard, Right Guard and Right Tackle. They should be committing to the slide. The Center would actually step to the opposite side and the Left Guard sometimes would shift behind him and warp over to try to make a block.

With all of this said, how are gamers supposed to trust the tools that EA gives when we think they work a certain way and they do not? Why have the producers or someone from the A.I team not do pre-release videos on how they understand it and how it works in the game, rather than having the user think this is going to work a certain way? Let’s get on the same page. It would actually put out a lot of fires.

NCAA Football 13 Videos

Member Comments

# 41 LBzrule @ 07/31/12 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	Obviously the video was a complete ****-up of how the protection should work, but why would you slide away from the numbers anyway? Why would you put your back to the side of the combination? Why is the defense reduced weak? (flipped) I'd rather see the play with the defense normal (not flipped/reduced strong/over) and just the line slid left. Leave the back away from the combination, where he should be anyway.

The first run through in the video the defense is in its base alignment. I have another video I'm going to load up. The interesting thing is on a couple of occasions it gets blocked up like it should but then unexplainably, it falls a part. The defense isn't flipped. Also, there are three rushers to each side. I thought about including the TE in the slide but no matter which way I slide the TE just allows the defender to run around him. Also, the reason why I shifted the defense over later is because more than likely, people who run that blitz online are not going to leave it as it is. A lot of guys run that blitz shifting it over. Let me get this other video up.

# 42 shttymcgee @ 07/31/12 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	The first run through in the video the defense is in its base alignment. I have another video I'm going to load up. The interesting thing is on a couple of occasions it gets blocked up like it should but then unexplainably, it falls a part. The defense isn't flipped. Also, there are three rushers to each side. I thought about including the TE in the slide but no matter which way I slide the TE just allows the defender to run around him. Also, the reason why I shifted the defense over later is because more than likely, people who run that blitz online are not going to leave it as it is. A lot of guys run that blitz shifting it over. Let me get this other video up.

After looking at the pics, I see the defense not flipped or shifted weak.

Still, I count 5 defenders to the left of the center and 3 to right in the video. I think the slide should go left. Plus, you definitely want the back going rt to pull any #3 defender away from the combo.

Not to nitpick (I feel like I am), but why wouldn't you just run the ball to the rt. That isn't a real defensive alignment (at least not one that isn't f'ed up). A 1 and a 9 to the TE with only 1 backer?

# 43 LBzrule @ 07/31/12 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	After looking at the pics, I see the defense not flipped or shifted weak. Still, I count 5 defenders to the left of the center and 3 to right in the video. I think the slide should go left. Plus, you definitely want the back going rt to pull any #3 defender away from the combo.

I see the 3, 5, Will, Mike and FS on the left. The alignment of the FS though tells me he's in man coverage. Taking Madden alignments into consideration, I simply ignored the FS. It is clear to me he's in man. Also since i knew the play I knew Mike was not blitzing. But I get the principle even if the FS is not blitzing the numbers still dictate a slide left. I'll have to look and see if I recorded that. I think the slide left had the DT on the left running through untouched. Let me see if I recorded that. I have a lot of videos in here.

# 44 LBzrule @ 07/31/12 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	After looking at the pics, I see the defense not flipped or shifted weak. Still, I count 5 defenders to the left of the center and 3 to right in the video. I think the slide should go left. Plus, you definitely want the back going rt to pull any #3 defender away from the combo. Not to nitpick (I feel like I am), but why wouldn't you just run the ball to the rt. That isn't a real defensive alignment (at least not one that isn't f'ed up). A 1 and a 9 to the TE with only 1 backer?

LOL. Don't want to get started on that. Ohhh running would be ideal, if the damn lineman wouldn't move out of the damn way just because

# 45 shttymcgee @ 08/01/12 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I see the 3, 5, Will, Mike and FS on the left. The alignment of the FS though tells me he's in man coverage. Taking Madden alignments into consideration, I simply ignored the FS. It is clear to me he's in man. Also since i knew the play I knew Mike was not blitzing. But I get the principle even if the FS is not blitzing the numbers still dictate a slide left. I'll have to look and see if I recorded that. I think the slide left had the DT on the left running through untouched. Let me see if I recorded that. I have a lot of videos in here.

How do you know its not an open side fire-zone based solely on the alignment of the safety? He could just as easily be blitzing off the edge, couldn't he?

# 46 poster @ 08/01/12 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	Why would the back not know the DT was there? The animation was stupid, but he has eyes, doesn't he?

Yes, he has eyes. That being said, at 2:46 of the video, he is looking the complete opposite way. He has no idea the DT has gotten through, as he isn't even looking up the middle at all. The game magically morphed him over to block. Looks awful, should have been a sack.

# 47 LBzrule @ 08/01/12 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	How do you know its not an open side fire-zone based solely on the alignment of the safety? He could just as easily be blitzing off the edge, couldn't he?

Just knowing Madden/NCAA defensive alignments, the Safety never lines up over a slot WR on a blitz. They always split the difference; are on the line of scrimmage in a ghost 9; or on the second level in a 5. Lastly, since it is 4-3 Stack most there are only a few zone blitzes it could be, none of which would have the FS drop that far down in his Pre-snap alignment over the WR. You said it in another thread, zone blitzes in Madden/NCAA are easy to read. Even with best on best, most of them are still not overly difficult to figure out, especially if you have a grasp of the playbook and the secondary alignments.

# 48 PGaither84 @ 08/01/12 11:26 AM

At first is was like "Ugh.. another article by MMChrisS?!?" then I saw it was LBzrule.

# 49 shttymcgee @ 08/01/12 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Just knowing Madden/NCAA defensive alignments, the Safety never lines up over a slot WR on a blitz. They always split the difference; are on the line of scrimmage in a ghost 9; or on the second level in a 5. Lastly, since it is 4-3 Stack most there are only a few zone blitzes it could be, none of which would have the FS drop that far down in his Pre-snap alignment over the WR. You said it in another thread, zone blitzes in Madden/NCAA are easy to read. Even with best on best, most of them are still not overly difficult to figure out, especially if you have a grasp of the playbook and the secondary alignments.

I know, but you shouldn't be able to know that. You should be able to run a 2-Deep/4 Under fire zone from that look.

# 50 LBzrule @ 08/01/12 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	I know, but you shouldn't be able to know that. You should be able to run a 2-Deep/4 Under fire zone from that look.

I agree, this is where 2k's coverage shells on defense would be useful. Unfortunately, this is what madden gives us. Only best on best and no shells.

# 51 LBzrule @ 08/01/12 04:32 PM

Here is that follow up video. Notice on the first snap, they block EXACTLY like I describe they should with the slide right. But then it falls a part after that. Not sure why. With no response from a developer to tell us what is happening we are left in the dark. There are times where they block it up. But more often than not, they get confused and there is no rationale.

# 52 shttymcgee @ 08/01/12 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I agree, this is where 2k's coverage shells on defense would be useful. Unfortunately, this is what madden gives us. Only best on best and no shells.

We should have coverage shells, but I meant the Safety and tight Corner as the deep defenders, with the open Corner squatting, which would fit the look in the video. BTW, the videos are horrible representations of how protections should work, no matter what way you slide.

# 53 riichiieriich @ 08/02/12 04:52 AM

Short answer: No, you can't trust it. There will always be nano's that exploit the stupid o-line AI.

# 54 Tyrant8RDFL @ 08/02/12 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Here is that follow up video. Notice on the first snap, they block EXACTLY like I describe they should with the slide right. But then it falls a part after that. Not sure why. With no response from a developer to tell us what is happening we are left in the dark. There are times where they block it up. But more often than not, they get confused and there is no rationale.

When you issued the command for the shift did you enter it multiple times or one time? I tend to send a command a few times just to make sure it was entered

I tested something out last night, not to extensive but a decent amount of reps.

This is not in any way to excuse the inconsistency we are seeing with the shift , but when I pinched my line and used the rb's to block the outside pressure it worked out nicely.

I'm stating this because if the left or right shift can't be trusted with the execution on a consistent basis. We can at least be more dependent on what I utilized, which I will add I got the idea from a poster here who stated this is what he did earlier in this thread. Sorry for not remembering your name.

# 55 Broncos86 @ 08/02/12 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL


	When you issued the command for the shift did you enter it multiple times or one time? I tend to send a command a few times just to make sure it was entered I tested something out last night, not to extensive but a decent amount of reps. This is not in any way to excuse the inconsistency we are seeing with the shift , but when I pinched my line and used the rb's to block the outside pressure it worked out nicely. I'm stating this because if the left or right shift can't be trusted with the execution on a consistent basis. We can at least be more dependent on what I utilized, which I will add I got the idea from a poster here who stated this is what he did earlier in this thread. Sorry for not remembering your name.

Sounds like a log-jam in the middle, which NCAA/Madden can't really compensate for since guys can't push others over. Then just let the RB pick up whichever side gets free.

# 56 NoLittleBabies @ 08/23/12 05:49 AM

LBzrule, you are a legend. Somebody hire this guy as a consultant and the game will be greatly improved in one year. Get me to an online petition site.

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